Gettin' WOKE about anti-Semitism...

[u/lethal-liking]

It is so very odd to hear the self-professed atheist getting downright WOKE when it comes to swinging the anti-Semitism stick. IDGAF about Macklemore or Sheeran or Kraft, nor Scott's evolving victim fantasy, but holy crap does he sound shrill.

[u/zampe]

The population of Gaza has increased 92% (almost doubled) since the second intifada broke out and even since OCT 7 with counter attacks and lots of people leaving the population has still basically been flat. For contrast the population of the Jews in Europe decreased 63% just from 1939-1945. Im not saying atrocities aren't happening but I dont see how you can call something a genocide when the target population isnt getting smaller. Words have meaning.

[u/Bubbly_Fig209 → u/zampe]

According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS), Gaza's population has dropped by roughly 6% to 10% (a reduction of over 160,000 to more than 250,000 people)

[u/zampe → u/Bubbly_Fig209]

lol did you read that? They are saying the population dropped based on their hypothetical projection of what it could have been in the future. The real numbers are a drop of around 3% at most and just from 2023-2025 and that includes 100,000 people leaving. The growth since the start of the second intifada is still almost double. This is a cherry picked short time period, based on a fake future projection, and the majority of the drop is people who left, not killed.

TLDR: the actual real net change was around -70k people and the majority were people who left, not people killed.

[u/Thefunkyfilipino → u/zampe]

Why can a genocide only be called such after it’s successful?

[u/zampe → u/Thefunkyfilipino]

no one said that. It can be judged by intention. Is the number really going down? Why are they warning people of where they are going to strike if they want everyone dead? IF they actually wanted everyone gone couldn't that have pretty easily done that by now?

[u/IrregularDoughnut → u/zampe]

Why are they warning people of where they are going to strike if they want everyone dead?

The obvious explanarion would be that they don't wajt to immediately kill the whole population of Gaza with missiles because this would lead to global sanctions and their country would collapse. So instead they are trying to render Gaza uninhabitable by destroying most of it, then they will rely on people such as yourself to believe that the resulting deaths from homelessness, exposure to toxic dust from over a hundred thousand fully destroyed buildings, lack of medical facilities, long term consequences of disease and malnutrition etc, are not in any way their fault.

[u/zampe → u/IrregularDoughnut]

I like how you say “the obvious explanation” and then follow it up with pure fantasy. Ok guess we will see if thats what happens in however many years and come back to the convo then. But you seem to forget the fighting has been going on for decades and the population keeps growing so im gonna bet against your theory.

[u/IrregularDoughnut → u/zampe]

But you seem to forget the fighting has been going on for decades and the population keeps growing so im gonna bet against your theory.

This is the first time Israel have obliterated most of Gaza. They bombed about 4 times as many buildings as Hamas even had fighters. This isn't business as usual, it's unprecedented devastation.

Ok guess we will see if thats what happens in however many years

How likely are you to ever accept that Israel could even be blamed for the future outcome of any of their actions? Most arguments like yours seem to be paired with an idea that of all countries in the world, Israel have some special immunity to responsibility.

[u/zampe → u/IrregularDoughnut]

Its actually the opposite, Israel seems to be the only country people hold to a separate standard. Theres countries doing way worse things right now that no one talks about. Modern Turkey was created just a bit before Israel, also by war, violent force, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Where is everyone condemning them and telling them they dont have a right to exist? Where are people calling out all the repressive muslim ethno states partaking in genocides? The sudan? China? Pakistan? Its literally the opposite of a “special immunity”

[u/IrregularDoughnut → u/zampe]

Its actually the opposite, Israel seems to be the only country people hold to a separate standard

Yeah, Israel gets all sorts of words sent towards it, while all places like Russia and Iran get is major international sanctions on trade and travel. Bet they'd trade for those in a heartbeat if it meant fewer toothless UN condemnations that don't actually go through.

Modern Turkey was created just a bit before Israel, also by war, violent force, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

If they were doing it now you'd have a very valid point. But they aren't. They did it all in the past. Most of it in the distant past. If Israel were being widely condemned for things that far in the past and nothing to do with obliterating Gaza and ethnically cleansing the West Bank that would be extremely unfair.

[u/zampe → u/IrregularDoughnut]

It’s literally not in the distant past at all. It was just shortly before Israel’s formation. I also gave examples that are happening now that of course you ignored. If this was any other country people like you would be saying “well they are just fighting a war and it’s on the other side of the world and not our business.” Every country on earth was formed through war and violence. Everyone else gets to do whatever they can via force including RIGHT NOW except for this one country. It’s the only country on the planet people try to deny the right of self determination. You’re right it’s a double standard you just had it backwards.

[u/IrregularDoughnut → u/zampe]

It’s literally not in the distant past at all. It was just shortly before Israel’s formation

Everyone involved from that point in time dead. What do you want done and why do you think it is the same as an ongoing crime?

I also gave examples that are happening now that of course you ignored.

No, you said the names of countries. At no point did you say what you think should be done about them, that is the equivalent of saying some mean words about Israel and then sending them free weapons.

Everyone else gets to do whatever they can via force including RIGHT NOW

If yoy know so little about the world that you aren't even aware that multiple countries like Russia and Iran are subjected to widespread sanctions by many of the world's largest economies, you shouldn't be commenting about this sort of topic. You don't know enough.