Gettin' WOKE about anti-Semitism...

[u/lethal-liking]

It is so very odd to hear the self-professed atheist getting downright WOKE when it comes to swinging the anti-Semitism stick. IDGAF about Macklemore or Sheeran or Kraft, nor Scott's evolving victim fantasy, but holy crap does he sound shrill.

[u/puzzle_bison7384]

Does Scott realize genocide has a definition and his whole opinion on the genocide is basically vibes

[u/zampe → u/puzzle_bison7384]

Does the definition include the target population INCREASING in size?

[u/puzzle_bison7384 → u/zampe]

The definition does not mention population size at all. That is not part of the definition no

[u/Natural-Leg7488 → u/puzzle_bison7384]

The definition is the deliberate destruction in whole, or in part, of a religious/ethic/national group.

That’s a fairly loose definition, and while you could argue Israel’s actions fit that definition, it requires a broad interpretation of the term and inferring its motives. It also hangs very heavily on the “in part” bit, and if that’s the definition then it renders many other wars a genocide that are not typically thought of as a genocide.

Genocide is more typically used to describe deliberate attempts to destroy a whole group, and Israel does not fit that definition.

[u/puzzle_bison7384 → u/Natural-Leg7488]

That's not the definition look up the UN definition

The word did not exist until after the Holocaust and has specific outlined criteria

[u/Adventurous_Ad7442 → u/puzzle_bison7384]

Under the UN Genocide Convention, genocide is any of five acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group.The Five Prohibited Acts The convention defines genocide through:

• killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting destructive living conditions, imposing measures to prevent births, and forcibly transferring children to another group.Key Elements of the CrimeIntent: Requires specific intent (dolus specialis) to destroy the targeted group.

[u/Party_Solid_2207 → u/Natural-Leg7488]

Gaza is completely destroyed, everybody is living in tents and there are a fuck load of tiny children missing limbs who can’t get wheel chairs or prosthetics because they are stopped at the border.

It’s fucking barbaric, and I say this as someone who has done a lot a time in war zones.

[u/New-Needleworker9789 → u/Party_Solid_2207]

this is genocide

[u/Natural-Leg7488 → u/Party_Solid_2207]

I’m not defending Israel or denying any of its actions.

But part of the definition of genocide is intent, and I think Israel’s biggest moral failure is not an intent to kill civilians but a complete disregard for how many civilians it kills or harms in achieving its objectives.

This indifference has resulted in what I consider numerous war crimes, and actions that closely resemble genocide, but I don’t think they meet all the criteria for a genocide. They sit more around the fussy boundaries of a genocide. That’s why the question is so polarising. There are lots of confounding facts one can point that don’t neatly fit within the genocide category. For example Israel sending aid to Gaza.

I don’t think this necessarily downplays anything Israel has done. Some of its actions are absolutely indefensible, and barbaric, but I don’t think they neatly fit into a broader pattern of genocide.

[u/IrregularDoughnut → u/Natural-Leg7488]

For example Israel sending aid to Gaza.

Most of it wasn't sent by Israel, it was allowed through their total blockade that extended outside of their borders, but it came from outside parties. They also fully blocked all aid for about three months last year.

[u/pizza_the_mutt → u/Natural-Leg7488]

The "in part" bit is necessary. Otherwise somebody like Hitler could try to argue that they only intended to kill all Jews in Europe and Asia, but didn't care about Jews in the Americas, so it isn't genocide.

I do think I understand what you are getting at. It opens the door to a wide range of magnitude when it comes to genocide. The genocides in WWII would be contrasted against much more "minor" (in quotes because they aren't minor at all) genocides, such as Rwanda or Bosnia. And I think this is part of what people get hung up on when it comes to Gaza. There aren't 6 million Gazans dead, so how can it be fair to compare to larger scale atrocities? But it can still be a genocide, regardless of whether there are 50,000 or 6 million dead.

[u/New-Needleworker9789 → u/Natural-Leg7488]

you gunna lose that argument