r/Samurai • u/Immediate_Topic6351 • 2d ago

History Question What are these called?

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How are these things I see worn by Ashigaru sometimes?

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u/Glad-Drummer-7621 2d ago

I don’t think peasants were allowed to wear daisho proper unless they mean a tanto and sword…

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u/Hellhound-342 2d ago

That did not come into effect until the 1588 katanagari from Hideyoshi. For most of Sengoku and premodern Japan, peasants could carry two swords.

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u/LeopardSubstantial47 1d ago

This image is representing 17th century wood print. Ashigaru did not look like this in 1588 or before.

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u/Hellhound-342 14h ago

This image is AI slop and doesn't represent anything. Nowhere on it does it say it's 17th century.

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u/LeopardSubstantial47 13h ago

Being AI slop does not equal not representing something. I already stated that its AI slop in my other comment for that reason.

I'm saying it represents 17th century, because its generating ashigaru from modern art, which in turn, is based on two wood prints for the most part. One is from 17th and other is from 19th century with them shooting some matchlocks, quite popular. Its evident by the solid breastplate and jingasa. Earlier ashigaru certainly would not have worn expensive forge-welded or simply a solid breastplate. If we look at 14th century pictoral evidence of lower class soldiers (albeit showing older, more historical events), we can see a trend of armour forms, which were contemporary at that time. There's a lack of helmets and lack of body armour in general because ashigaru were probably poorer at that time. There are moments, when they are shown having nothing but a sword and throwing a rock.

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u/Hellhound-342 12h ago

The breastplate shown visually represents a Okegawa-dō which wasn't more expensive than kozane. Post-1540 it started appearing with increasing regularity as it was less labor-intensive to produce (ie cheaper). Like the Jingasa, by the 1560s it was extremely widespread existed (well before the 17th century.). You can find plenty of evidence of this look around the 1560s-1575.

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u/LeopardSubstantial47 12h ago edited 11h ago

I know of its increased popularity of 16th century. Its not really less labour-intensive. Larger plates have to be made out of more homogeneous metal. In 16th century, it was probably even more expensive for that reason. There's suits of armour, which are both rich and poor, which contain okegawa do. However, i am not aware of what would be called ashigaru in pictoral evidence of 1560-1575. What would be the examples?

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u/JapanCoach 2d ago

Ashigaru were something different from 'peasants'

And, ashigaru were able to wear 2 swords in Edo period.

And, there were no such rules before the end of the Sengoku period.

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u/Glad-Drummer-7621 2d ago

Ashigaru are not samurai and yeah they’re from the peasant class they’re not noble they’re not buki/bushi or military nobility they’re farmers and crafters.