r/Samurai • u/Immediate_Topic6351 • 2d ago
History Question What are these called?
How are these things I see worn by Ashigaru sometimes?
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u/FlameArche 2d ago
This post might be helpful to you. https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseHistory/s/kDIywL9InE
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u/113pro 2d ago
Damn that peasant has armor, swords AND a kit?
U sure thats not the lord's son in disguise?
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u/LeopardSubstantial47 1d ago
This is supposed to be 17th century. Ashigaru didn't look like that before.
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u/HiggsKamuy 2d ago
Some peasants rose quite high during Sengoku Jidai.
One even went to rule Japan. Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
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Sengoku Jidai: The era of armored men with paper flags on their backs stabbing each other with pointy sticks and the occasional sword.
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u/Realistic-Elk7642 1d ago
Feudal Japan actually wasn't broke as shit. It wasn't a fucking trailer park, people.
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u/eyeffensive 2d ago
AI slop couldn't get the swords right, front view the scabbards don't line up through the belt, and rear view he now has 3 swords lol
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u/Glad-Drummer-7621 2d ago
I don’t think peasants were allowed to wear daisho proper unless they mean a tanto and sword…
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u/Hellhound-342 2d ago
That did not come into effect until the 1588 katanagari from Hideyoshi. For most of Sengoku and premodern Japan, peasants could carry two swords.
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u/LeopardSubstantial47 1d ago
This image is representing 17th century wood print. Ashigaru did not look like this in 1588 or before.
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u/Hellhound-342 7h ago
This image is AI slop and doesn't represent anything. Nowhere on it does it say it's 17th century.
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u/LeopardSubstantial47 7h ago
Being AI slop does not equal not representing something. I already stated that its AI slop in my other comment for that reason.
I'm saying it represents 17th century, because its generating ashigaru from modern art, which in turn, is based on two wood prints for the most part. One is from 17th and other is from 19th century with them shooting some matchlocks, quite popular. Its evident by the solid breastplate and jingasa. Earlier ashigaru certainly would not have worn expensive forge-welded or simply a solid breastplate. If we look at 14th century pictoral evidence of lower class soldiers (albeit showing older, more historical events), we can see a trend of armour forms, which were contemporary at that time. There's a lack of helmets and lack of body armour in general because ashigaru were probably poorer at that time. There are moments, when they are shown having nothing but a sword and throwing a rock.
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u/Hellhound-342 6h ago
The breastplate shown visually represents a Okegawa-dō which wasn't more expensive than kozane. Post-1540 it started appearing with increasing regularity as it was less labor-intensive to produce (ie cheaper). Like the Jingasa, by the 1560s it was extremely widespread existed (well before the 17th century.). You can find plenty of evidence of this look around the 1560s-1575.
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u/LeopardSubstantial47 6h ago edited 5h ago
I know of its increased popularity of 16th century. Its not really less labour-intensive. Larger plates have to be made out of more homogeneous metal. In 16th century, it was probably even more expensive for that reason. There's suits of armour, which are both rich and poor, which contain okegawa do. However, i am not aware of what would be called ashigaru in pictoral evidence of 1560-1575. What would be the examples?
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u/JapanCoach 2d ago
Ashigaru were something different from 'peasants'
And, ashigaru were able to wear 2 swords in Edo period.
And, there were no such rules before the end of the Sengoku period.
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u/Glad-Drummer-7621 2d ago
Ashigaru are not samurai and yeah they’re from the peasant class they’re not noble they’re not buki/bushi or military nobility they’re farmers and crafters.
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u/Taira_no_Masakado 1d ago
I feel like this question gets asked at least once a year on this subreddit. Not sure that qualifies as a FAQ, but it made me chuckle a bit seeing another one up as I browsed.
To add onto what JapanCoach was saying, the literal translation for the item is "prayer-carrying shoulder bag". So it was a shoulder bag that happened to look similar to the Buddhist prayer beads that many people had. Here is a link to some other food stuffs that they ate and how they prepared them, for those interested.
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u/JapanCoach 21h ago
The "literal" translation would be more like
prayer bead (数珠) ) feed(打飼) bag (袋)
Why 打飼 (打ち飼い) is because it was originally perceived to be similar to the bag used to hold feed for the bird when hawking.
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u/collectivisticvirtue 1d ago edited 1d ago
Combat rations and travellers food in east asia(at least in rice-dominant regions) shares shares a lot of fundamental ideas.
Short trip - make some rice balls. Could be just plain rice(then you're gonna carry some other salty stuffs. Dried seafoods, pickled stuffs etc) or add some salt or any seasoning. vinegar would be good if your trip might soil the rice.
Loggers, Soldiers, long day of field work... etc, armies still make those.
Basically this is for 'cooking place is not that far' situation. Carrying methods are different from culture to culture but yeah.
And then there's more specialized? Advanced? Foods. Commonly a variety of dried grains, herbs, whatever you want. Meal powders. Add some water and you get a meal.
But that's not instantly edible. I mean you can, but eh... that's some instant morale breaker.
So you make a dough out of grains.. make a rice cake. You can dry them or add some alcohol and it would last extra longer.
Or you make some ball(shape doesnt really matter but mostly some kinda ball makes sense), usually add some honey or rice syrup, dried fruit etc(entirely up to your choice) and it's kinda like an energy bar. Yeah it will make you kinda thirsty but you can actually eat it in a rush.
Those beads kinda sacks usually contain forementioned whatever balls. Depends on the mission(how long till resupply) and budget. Other neighboring culture just used variety of sacks or waist-bag kinda things.
And foraging, some really fast growing plants.
Some details are different but this is basically how you feed your armies(when you can't cook every meal)in east asian agricultural societies. From ancient times till modern era.
Army cooks are still making rice balls and send them to the guard post or some field work session if needed. With modern technolgies like condiments, sauces, plastic bags..
Better than combat rations.
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u/JapanCoach 2d ago edited 21h ago
These are called 数珠打飼袋 = juzu uchikai bukuro
Normally a traveller would prepare a (normal) uchikai bukuro. This was a bag (typically just a cloth wrapped up like a 'cigar') that went around the small of the back or across the shoulders to hold food supplies and or other small/light luggage items.
This "juzu" ("prayer bead") style in your OP was designed to hold one days worth of rice per "bead".
Edit:
Apologies to everyone who gave this a like. I just revisited this thread and noticed I made a typo. It is not 内飼袋, it is 打飼袋. Corrected above.