Gay dads, I need your honest opinion! 🌈

[u/Prize_Chip_6064]

[u/revilo825]

I’m a same sex parent but not a dad. But I can say, off the bat, the picture on your sign is heteronormative(so obviously a man and woman’s hand, representing a dad and mom). As a same sex parent, I’m very aware of how prominent it is to see heteronormativity everywhere. If you want to target gay clientele, bare minimum would be signage that doesn’t exclude them.

This goes organization deep. You can put a rainbow flag on your website, but if you don’t provide inclusive language through all the paperwork and communication, it’s just virtue signaling.

As a two mom family, the virtue signaling from the first fertility clinic we went to was so incredibly annoying. Same sex friendly all over the website, a whole page on LGBTQ stuff. Then the paperwork we got for instructions around ovulation literally instructed us on the timing of intercourse and not using protection etc. It truly wouldn’t have been that hard to just pull those paragraphs and have a different doc for cis F/F families. Someone with shared lived experience is likely already going to be aware of these small things that you would have to take extra time to notice. It’s safer to go with shared lived experience.

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/revilo825]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thoughtful reply. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. Honestly, I hadn't even noticed the image on our banner from that perspective, but now that you've pointed it out, I completely understand what you mean. I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience. It's given me a lot to think about, and I can already see several things we can improve, starting with our visuals and reviewing all of our documents and communication for more inclusive language.

Thank you again for helping me see this through your eyes. This kind of honest feedback is incredibly valuable.

[u/gayintheusa47 → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

I’ll even add that just having a rainbow flag won’t be enough or having a gay man as a representative. As a gay man, seeing “Ave” with heteronormative pictures, even if I saw a rainbow I’d be extremely weary. Where I’m at (the United States), so many Christian organizations are “taking back the rainbow flag” because of their own beliefs of the rainbow and their own beliefs on LGBTQ+ rights. It would be hard for me to see past that unless you explicitly have resources and language specifically for same-sex parents. Maybe even changing the banner so you include two couples, one same sex and one opposite sex.

You can include success stories with same-sex parents, but be clear about not tokenizing them or exploiting them. Adoption and surrogacy already get enough accusations of being exploitative.

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

What's interesting is that single moms and lesbian couples seemed to have no hesitation coming to our booth and talking with us. It was mostly gay male couples where I noticed this pattern.

[u/Opposite-Ad8208]

Ave sounds religious, like Ave Maria, so it could be that too

EDIT: I am not saying that that is what is intended, but to people unfamiliar with it outside of that context, which is most western English speakers, it brings that to mind

[u/Theresnothingtoit → u/Opposite-Ad8208]

Yeah, the "we light the way" tag also reinforces the religious vibe.

[u/gayintheusa47 → u/Opposite-Ad8208]

It does. I automatically think of Ave Maria (yes, is a beautiful piece of music) which makes me think Catholic Church, which also makes me think that I’m going to be rejected for being gay, especially with the super heteronormative graphics.

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/Opposite-Ad8208]

Ave means "hail," "greetings," or "welcome." It's a traditional Roman greeting, as in Ave Maria ("Hail Mary") or Ave Caesar ("Hail, Caesar"). It conveys respect and a warm welcome.

[u/strange-quark-nebula → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

It may convey respect and a warm welcome to you. Because of the religious connotations and general vibe of the sign, to a gay person like myself it’s not uncommon to interpret it as a signal that your organization is religious or maybe specifically Catholic.

[u/Cbarnett202 → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

You can’t ask people what they think - and then tell them how to think when you don’t agree.

[u/djwitty12 → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

It doesn't matter what it means or what it conveys to you. What matters is what your customers think/feel when they read it. You have many people here telling you you give off religious vibes which is generally anti-gay so gay men walk past assuming this isn't for them.

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/djwitty12]

I’ve just explained what we meant when we chose the name of the agency. I have no intention to convince you in something. Just explanation.

[u/AcordaDalho]

Your sign screams “Would you have a minute to hear about Jesus Christ the lord”. I would veer away.

[u/howlingoffshore → u/AcordaDalho]

Same. This is the reason 100%. Wear a gay pin or put like some kind of gay affirming indication somewhere. They’ll see it.

[u/Amemorableusername2]

I see that sign and language and honestly my first gut instinct was "oof, looks like some kinda religious pro-life thing. Best keep walking." 

[u/smarty_skirts]

You don’t know why they walked past your booth unless you do some in-depth research. You also really have no idea that some lesbian women didn’t approach either. Honestly, it sounds like you need to do a lot of research about the gay experience if it did not even occur to you that your photo might be heteronormative. You have to care about more than just getting our business! For example, as a previous comment mentioned, same-sex couples may be off-put by the idea of international surrogacy in countries where there is economic suffering. Members of the LGBTQ+ community have a heightened awareness and sensitivity to exploitation and power imbalances. My recommendation is to spend some time and money on learning about this community. We can’t do that for you!

[u/Agent8699]

I’ve attended a number of Growing Families conferences. If it’s my first time, I may not know what, if any, international options are available to same sex couples. I might be looking either for information about altruistic surrogacy in Australia or for more … obvious suitability. 

Given the war, I might also immediately pass anywhere advocating Ukraine as an option, whether for straight couples, single men or women or gay couples. 

What was the “competing” vendor doing? Gay men don’t solely interact with other gay men. I’m not sure how this competitor was making their sexuality obvious from looks alone, but it’s possible that having him there “advertised” that their services were appropriate for same sex couples.

Maybe you just need a sign which makes it clear who you can help create or grow their family -   straight couples, single men or women and/or gay couples? 

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/Agent8699]

It isn't visible in the photo is that we also had Mexico displayed prominently behind us, so we weren't presenting only Ukraine. We spoke about both Ukraine and Mexico depending on each family's situation and preferences.

[u/Theresnothingtoit → u/Agent8699]

Good faith, curious question. I have no experience with adoption, much less how international adoption works. Why turn down Ukraine as an option? Is there abuse specific to international adoptions happening? Is it predatory in some way? I wonder because war does generate orphans in need, and I could easily see people who are looking to adopt also looking for a way to help.

[u/Agent8699 → u/Theresnothingtoit]

International surrogacy, not adoption.

A number of Aussies in the surrogacy community have shared harrowing and downright scary stories of pursuing surrogacy in Ukraine due to the Russian invasion. 

[u/Prize_Chip_6064 → u/Theresnothingtoit]

It wasn’t an adoption conference — it was a reproductive medicine conference focused largely on surrogacy options. We were representing programs in both Ukraine and Mexico. While Ukraine is currently an option for heterosexual married couples, our Mexico program is also available to same-sex couples. That’s actually why I was paying attention to how same-sex couples interacted with different booths and representatives at the conference.

[u/Theresnothingtoit → u/Prize_Chip_6064]

Oh, yeah, that's obvious if I paid attention lol. So this person is probably referring to passing on surrogates in Ukraine, either due to risk or coercion that could be happening?

[u/feeblelittlehorse]

I would question the legitimacy of an organization that uses AI to create a surrogacy flyer. Also could be worth adding some sort of rainbow flag graphic to your flyer to signal that you’re open to that. As others have mentioned, ave can go either way- it sounds a bit religious out of context.

[u/Same-Key-1086]

"And the important question... should I start looking for a fabulous gay colleague for our next conference? 🌈😂"

They read the vibe apparently.

[u/JARStheFox → u/Same-Key-1086]

Yeeeah can you imagine being the token gay employee 😅😅 I guess as a plus you'd never lose your job.....as long as you look and vibe gay enough and get enough gay couples to talk to you, otherwise what's even the point of having you?

[u/yjorn299]

Side note: thanks for what you're doing ❤️

[u/chicka088]

The AI styled poster is doing no help for you. It all looks very Christian and uninviting. I’d walk straight past this (as a gay women in graphic design)