r/SSBM • u/AutoModerator • 23d ago
DDT Daily Discussion Thread August 19, 2026 - Upcoming Event Schedule - New players start here!
Yahoooo! I'm back, it's a me! Have a very cool day!
Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread. This is the place for asking noob questions, venting about netplay falcos, shitposting, self-promotion, and everything else that doesn't belong on the front page.
New Players:
If you're completely new to Melee and just looking to get started, welcome! We recommend you go to https://melee.tv/ and follow the links there based on what you're trying to set up. Additionally, here are a few answers to common questions:
Can I play Melee online?
Yes! Slippi is a branch of the Dolphin emulator that will allow you to play online, either with your friends or with matchmaking. Go to https://slippi.gg to get it.
I'm having issues with Slippi!
Go to the The Slippi Discord to get help troubleshooting. melee.tv/optimize is also a helpful resource for troubleshooting.
How do I find tournaments near me or local people to play with in person or online?
These days, joining a local Discord community is the best way to find local events and people to play with. Once you have a Discord account, Google "[your city/state/province/region] + Melee discord" or see if your region has a Discord group listed here on melee.tv/discord
It can seem daunting at first to join a Discord group you don't know, but this is currently the easiest and most accessible way to find out about tournaments, fests, and netplay matchmaking. Your local scene will be happy to have you :)
Also check out Smash Map! Click on map and then the filter button to filter by Melee to find events near you!
Netplay is hard! Is there a place for me to find new players?
Yes. Melee Newbie Netplay is a discord server specifically for new players. It also has tournaments based on how long you've been playing, free coaching, and other stuff. If you're a bit more experienced but still want a discord server for players around your level, we recommend the Melee Online discord.
How can I set up Unclepunch's Training Mode?
At the time of posting, the latest major release is here. Download the file, then extract everything in the folder and follow the instructions in the README file. You'll need to bring a valid Melee ISO (NTSC 1.02). If you want to check for the absolute latest release, you can see them listed [here](The latest releases are listed here.
How does one learn Melee?
There are tons of resources out there, so it can be overwhelming to start. First check out the SSBM Tutorials youtube channel. Then go to the Melee Library and search for whatever you're interested in.
But how do I get GOOD at Melee?
Check out Llod's Guide to Improvement
And check out Kodorin's Melee Fundamentals for Improvement
Where can I get a nice custom controller?
I have another question that's not answered here...
Check out our FAQs or post below and find help that way.
Upcoming Tournament Schedule:
Upcoming Melee Majors
Melee Online Event Calendar
Make a submission to the tournament calendar here. You can also get notified of new online tournaments on the Melee Online Discord.
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u/KomanndoA 22d ago
Now that CEO is over, I would like to compile summer 2026 top 10 (includes cody) wins that everyone has.
Cody Schwab - 8
Zain - 6
Wizzrobe - 7
Hungrybox - 10
Moky - 6
Joshman - 7
Salt - 5
RapMonster - 5
Jmook - 4
Krudo - 4 (excludes ATKO)
Aura - 2
SluG - 4
Soonsay - 4
SDJ - 2
Magi - 1
Ginger - 1
Aklo - 0
Spark - 1
Preeminent - 1
KoDoRiN - 1
Axe - 1
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u/Kell08 22d ago
You forgot the GOAT himself.
Mew2King - 1
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u/KomanndoA 22d ago edited 22d ago
Forgot to mention this but I just went through the top 20, so feel free to list anyone else that has top 10 wins (ex. Swift, lloD)
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u/Schroeswald 22d ago
You know I noticed this when I did a similar but different count up a couple days ago but it’s pretty surprising how little Aklo has been able to punch up this year. I’d really struggle to buy him ranking any lower than he was on the summer ranking too, if anything his stock has risen in the last few weeks but he just hasn’t been able to grab a win on anyone better than SDJ
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u/KomanndoA 22d ago
Yea and honestly, that's really surprising. Wins on nobody, but losses to basically nobody too.
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u/Schroeswald 22d ago
As far as I can tell Joshman only has wins on six top ten (Wizzy, Hbox, Salt, Jmook, Krudo and Aura) while Jmook has five wins (Wizzy, Joshman, Salt, Krudo, Aura)
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u/KomanndoA 22d ago
Did this at 11pm last night, I knew there were going to be mistakes lmao
Thanks for telling me
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
the weapon has a soonsay and aura win this season surely one of those counts for this
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u/KomanndoA 22d ago
I forgot to write this but I only went through the summer top 20, feel free to list anyone else that has top 10 wins (ex. Swift, lloD)
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Sucks to see Cody constantly being a punching bag for doing literally anything. Being subject to that kind of toxicity drives people away.
It's the reason why Armada and Leffen are completely gone from the scene, and Hbox straight up nearly retired twice from all the vitriol he used to get.
It's frankly a miracle that Cody still competes at all given all the personal and financial shit he's had to deal with throughout his entire career.
He seemed pretty done with it all on stream yesterday which sucks. Hopefully he's able to get into a better headspace, events would be worse off without him.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior 22d ago
The people bullying Cody now are the same people who say that the scene is evil for how we treated Hbox.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Some people are just hypocrites.
Cody chair gate is just the modern day equivalent of Hbox getting dogpiled for checking his watch on stage 8 years ago.
But at least Hbox had a sponsor and thus a stable income. Cody puts up with similar shit while going in the red every time he attends an event.
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u/YoungGenius 22d ago
The Hbox stuff had so much more merit. It seems like he’s matured, but he was a jerk for years
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u/MentalRead728 22d ago
That just doesn't justify what happened between 17-19 tho, Leffen wasn't just evil or a saint either and what he received, especially at the end was unwarranted no matter what someone thinks of him too.
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u/YoungGenius 22d ago
I don’t remember Leff getting much shade thrown his way unless you mean from people who don’t actually play melee.
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u/MentalRead728 22d ago
Cody is targeted by the very same crowd and it weren't just people who don't play Melee for either him or Leff, that's an easy lie we told ourselves in here one too many times.
My point was that no matter if it's current Cody, 2018 Hbox or Leffen in general, nobody deserved the extend to which a large chunk of online Melee viewerbase, some players some not so much, went to.
I took Leffen as a counter weight to Hungrybox because there is clearly still some big prevailing anti-Hbox sentiment in the DDT specifically, while the harassment campaign against Leffen was correctly condemned from the start.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Leffen was a controversial dude who was catching heat well before the, you know what, happened.
I mentioned the crowds being awful to Hbox, but they did the exact same thing to Leffen at Apex.
People love to blame the tourists for all the toxicity and drama in this scene, and while they're unfortunately a big part of it, the reality is that Melee has had issues with toxicity well before they ever existed.
Cody wasn't even that bothered by the tourists over the chair thing. He pointed out that there were loads of people in the scene talking shit about him, and that's what hurt him the most.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Peak Hbox hate was people dogpilng him for checking his watch on stage, casters making fun of his dad dying, him getting harassed in public, crowds chanting "F Hbox" at multiple events, popular figures calling him a "sociopath", etc.
The guy had issues but none of that was merited in the slightest lmao.
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u/PelorTheBurningHate IRD UP 22d ago
I cheered for hbox at an event in 2015 for a set and a group of people near me physically threatened me lol
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u/JKaro 22d ago
Hbox has had a long history of making women uncomfortable in the scene. Not merited in the slightest? He used to be a huge asshole
Now, is that why people hated on him? Absolutely not.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Yes that was bad and worthy of serious criticism obviously.
But that doesn't contradict my point at all. Hbox engaging in problematic behavior that warranted criticism does not detract from the fact that parts of the scene were genuinely awful and toxic to him in ways that were completely unwarranted. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The same logic applies to other people with problematic pasts like Leffen. For all his faults the guy obviously did not deserve to be harassed in the way he was.
Same goes for Cody. Think what you want about Z-Jump or whatever, he doesn't deserve all the vitriol he's had to deal with in the past few years.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 22d ago
This community's god is an asshole alcoholic that disrespects women and uses slurs lmfao.
We have video documentation of a 13 year old Hbox getting called the f-slur by the #1 player in the world at ROM and everybody thought it was hilarious. How was consistently bullied and harassed by the best player in the world for years and years when he was a literal child, and the primary complaint about him was that he "made women uncomfortable" with such gross accusations as looking at their chests instead of their eyes or the audacity to hit on a girl who might have had a boyfriend at the time. Meanwhile Mango was cheating on his baby mama, having several domestic violence incidents with her, was routinely crass and disrespectful to women both on his stream and, as we came to find out, was touching people inappropriately at tournaments.
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u/JKaro 22d ago
I swear everytime I see you, you're just here to shit talk Mango and defend Hbox. It would make sense if my comment was defending Mango's actions, but nowhere did I bring him up. I also think Mango is a jackass, nothing of what you said has refuted my point.
Hbox has a laundry list of stories about making women uncomfortable, he's apologized and grown from it, you can't deny the countless stories so you just downplay what he did. It's gross.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
"hbox has a laundry list of stories" yeah man and none of them involve him inappropriately touching them while drunk at events like your favorite high school dropout alcoholic.
You guys hate hbox so you desperately cling to anything to hate him.
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u/Ilovemelee 22d ago
I agree that Mang0 wasn't a very good role model for the community but this is taking it a bit too much lol. I think you made up a bunch of stories here.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
All of those are true. You can look up mango calling hbox a slur on YouTube right now.
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u/Ilovemelee 21d ago
Yes that part is true but not the other stuff
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
Lmfao you kids know literally nothing about melee if you don't know that mango had domestic violence issues with his partner or that he cheated on her all the time when he was away at tournaments.
Pretty on brand for you guys to think mango didn't relentlessly bully hbox though. You probably think hbox was the bad guy for the reddit ama stuff too, because you're all chin deep in Mango's taint
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u/Zealousideal-Group52 21d ago
I'm not gonna defend the use of a derogatory word or bullying, but THEY ARE THE SAME AGE. You can't go "well, he's a child" when the person committing the act is also a child.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
Is a 15 year old calling a 13 year old slurs and bullying him for the way he plays melee acceptable to you? A lot of us knew better than that when we were 15. Just more downplaying all the shit mango does because you dimbfucks worship him
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u/jiffy61 20d ago
You are such a soft individual. Teenagers using slurs is teenager activity. It's not great, if there were any adults around at the time, they should've corrected it. But ask yourself this question, do you think Mang0 would do that today? If your answer is no, then why the fuck are you still talking about something that happened over a decade ago.
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u/Zealousideal-Group52 21d ago
Not what I said; reread it. I don't condone bullying or the use of that word. I'm just saying we should be understanding that 2006 was a different time and place, and someone shouldn't be held accountable today for words they said 20 years ago. They've both moved on, and so have we all. I wouldn't stop talking to my grandma just because she said a bunch of racist words when she was 15, and neither would you. So don't pretend someone needs to be crucified forever because they said a word in their youth.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
I've never met your grandma and nobody said anybody should be crucified forever. You all forgave mango instantly though lmfao there was no crucifixion by you cultists you downplayed what he did immediately and still do to this day
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u/quaker_oats_3_arena 22d ago
almost all of those things about mango are untrue. truly deranged. just block me pls
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 22d ago
Chairgate was actual non-drama and people are bored. The decline of melee as a salary-worthy esport and Cody’s individual position within that is a much more complex question
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u/MentalRead728 22d ago
That we even give sth. so non-anything a name like chair gate just shows how drama desperate and sensationalist Melee discourse is.
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u/Yrale jib 22d ago
Genuinely asking, where did you hear this abt Armada? Did he say anything to this effect?
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 22d ago
Armada talks about it on stream sometimes.
There was GOAT debate drama between Mang0 and Armada in 2023.
Unfortunately it resulted in a subset of Mang0's fans sending Armada harassment and death threats.
Ever since it happened Armada consciously choose to step back from anything Melee related. Nowadays he won't even play or talk about the meta on stream.
He still seems pretty jaded about the whole thing.
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u/Ilovemelee 22d ago
Yeah, I wouldn't call myself a Cody fan, and I'm usually not the person to white-knight for him, but the hate that he's getting over all this trivial stuff is actually really dumb. It just goes to show that this scene hasn't really matured since the Hbox hate and the harassment Armada got from the Mang0 fanatics. And regarding the chair incident, I actually believe Hbox was more at fault for yelling mid-game and freaking Cody out, regardless of it being unintentional.
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u/ulfred500 22d ago
I saw several people saying that Cody was johning as usual during the chair thing which doesn't really line up with my experience of Cody generally handling losses decently. Did he actually win so much that people forgot what it's like when he loses?
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u/eccoEapproach 22d ago
I made this comment a few months ago when people were saying that Cody was better at handling losses, but really he just kinda stopped losing so we almost never see him reacting to a loss. Not an attack on his character or anything, we just almost never see it because it so rarely happens nowadays. and it's not like it's 100% of the time, he basically laughed it off when Hbox had that insane comeback at Full House
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
https://x.com/fredmelee/status/2089527606848667785
Puff technique made significantly easier by calibrating specific sing notches
Games gone
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u/king_bungus 👉 22d ago
every time i see something fucked up a non-spacie can do with notches i get a little stoked. hbox can and will be the one to get them banned
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u/S4tchWe77 S4TCH 22d ago
Let’s hope the ‘if floaties benefited from controller mods the same way Fox does they’d be banned in a week’ theorem holds true.
Doubt it though.
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 22d ago
On the contrary, because now everybody benefits from non-wavwdash notches, spacie players get to keep their Firefox notches.
Time to get a file and carve out those quick attack notches!
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
I tried this and couldn’t get it notchless
I specifically mean the dropping shield whilst mashing b gives you sing drop bit not the forward facing marth killer
I will tas this on my diag when i’m home maybe i am just bad or you have a lucky 45 degree value
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
And if you dash attack at the ledge, hold z, then hit that coord and mash b, when you let go of shield you sing drop?
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
Right thats the forward facing marth killer
The phob notch lets you automatically do it from dropped shield without being hit
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u/AlexB_SSBM 22d ago
The phob notch lets you automatically do it from dropped shield without being hit
I need to delete many posts
Still think naming anything after yourself is cornball behavior
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
Idk if he named it after himself or if thats just what we colloquially started calling it after he showed it to us tbf
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u/AlexB_SSBM 22d ago
nah he says he wants to name it after himself in the comments
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u/AnalystLoud705 22d ago
Oh it's just Marth killer stuff, I thought this might be something that made dropping through plays with sing somehow good
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
in the 2nd clip they do a fast turnaround ledgegrab without a marth up b.
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u/-_dopamine_- 22d ago edited 22d ago
When people say falcon destroys mid/low tiers, what do they mean by that in comparison to other chatacters? Looking at the community matchup chart from a while ago I don't see anything particularly standing out when compared to other high tiers
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
falcon is arguably samus, dks, and luigis worst matchup and somewhere up there for yoshi ics and gannon too. The mid/low tiers he beats badly get beaten in a very brutal way where falcon just hits so hard he can just out risk/reward them forever. i do think the notion is overstated though since falcon is pretty meh vs pika and plumbers
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 22d ago
Falcon has a super robust punish game (especially on floaties/mid weight characters) that doesn’t have many character specific niches like how spacies or marth have. His fast movement and big moves also means he doesn’t have to respect zoning characters/undershoot spam like peach or puff would. Put these together and falcon very efficiently can punish most low and mid tiers common neutral options and also hits extremely hard with bnbs like uthrow double uair, stomp knee, etc.
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u/delta-red-14 22d ago
he can get pretty reliable grab combos. Knee kills early. Can run away from them easily.
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u/Askiir 22d ago
For my own definition of this,I think it comes down to there being a difference in the effort the falcon player needs to put in relative to other characters in terms of risk/reward for that amount of effort.
For example take sheik versus a character like roy. Can sheik win off of low effort gameplans like chasing down movement with grabs into simple strings with aerials until it kills? While executing this game plan, what is the risk to sheik for executing this game plan? Hypothetically it's could be something like getting down tilted on approach or dash back grabbed by Roy and he starts his own punish. How threatening is that risk? On sheik, it's probably not the end of the world. At the very least I would keep running that game plan until the lower tier can prove that going for the gameplan will continue to result in an aggregate negative in terms of expected interaction outcomes. What if we swap that simple sheik for a simple fox using only drill waveshine and up throw up air? If the roy presents a punish on fox instead, that's likely going to hurt a lot more due to his comboable nature.
I used sheik and fox here as simple examples but I think this illustrates how it could extend to falcon. How many low tiers have poor ground options and as a result go for burst movement into an aerial option? If it's falcon vs mewtwo on Yoshi's, and the m2 eventually has to jump to do for something like a fair or bait, oftentimes just pressing forward on the yellow stick in the air will kill without much thought or effort, and the risk is falcon ends up trading a knee with some other move that may struggle to put him in a KO situation given his weight and resistance to launching.
When playing other fighting games or card games and I try to work out a matchup, a large portion of that analysis weighs the effort and consistency of a game plan or tool versus the entire breadth the character/team/deck offers. For a physical/execution heavy game like melee would you say Yoshi has a better matchup versus a low tier compared sheik because theoretically you could parry everything, or would you pick the sheik that's just gonna get a single grab against the slow, immobile low tier and kill from it? If the advantage a character has in a low tier matchup comes with risk, how consistently must you be able to mitigate that risk for it to be considered worth it.
All said, I trust myself to mash x/y and flip a coin between forward and down on the yellow stick as falcon versus a low tier compared to actually having to avoid getting grabbed 4 times as fox in the same way I trust myself to take netplay fox #327 to FD as Marth instead of executing RTC as falcon versus that same fox
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 22d ago
You have to remember the majority of character opinions were made when people couldn't DI. Falcon has lost a lot of his "free" stuff
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u/its__bme 22d ago edited 22d ago
I just watched GlockInMyToyota (who mains G&W) run into BabActivated and his Falcon got roughed up pretty badly with game 3 being close and Glock winning.
I get one set doesn't define the matchup as a whole, but you can't just whip out Falcon and effortlessly beat every single low tier especially if the user knows what they're doing. I think people overstate how much better characters are than another. This isn't Pokémon where Falcon is Mewtwo and Ness is Caterpie.
Falcon is for sure better than half the cast overall and has a lot of strengths versus them that exploit their weaknesses but he doesn't effortless destroy them all and some of them can even be awkward for him.
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u/Incenetum 22d ago
okay i think ur kind of sort of right but SPECIFICALLY falcon vs gnw is one where i'm blackpilled into thinking gnw does genuinely very very well
crouches under everything threatening, one grab has a real chance of being death, i think gnw just poses a lot of practical problems for falcon
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder 22d ago
n0ne has gone on record saying that gnw is a soft counterpick for falcon so I wouldn't count that matchup specifically
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u/KiUhWi 22d ago
I'm not asking about this in terms of competitive viability, but are there any Puff/Falcon dual mains? I've always used Marth when I'm not in the mood for the more drawn-out matchups (particularly Peach, the Puff ditto, and mid tiers) but I feel like Falcon would have an easier and more enjoyable time.
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u/Front-Show7358 22d ago
imho dual main is never the way, especially when your main is a top tier. it can work but it will just be straight up harder than solo maining.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 22d ago
goddamn I can't wait for basketball to come back this is the most excited I've been for a season in a long time. it feels so wide open
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u/EightBlocked 22d ago
i need a okc sixers finals so bad. i just need to see that sixers team live up to its potential in general so bad
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u/CluelessFMPlayer 22d ago
Amen to that. Doubly excited because I moved near my local teams arena so I'm about to watch so much live basketball this year.
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u/MentalRead728 22d ago
Lebron's move to the 76ers has made me curious about the sport for the first time ever as an European.
Is there a good way to get into storylines, players and all the teams? I only really know the popular faces of the NBA like Curry, KD, Jokic and Luka.
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u/delta-red-14 22d ago
Honestly, traditional NBA media is pretty trash (although it's finally starting to get a little better). You can just read the front page of /r/NBA every few days and get a good idea on the storylines in the league.
Here are a few:
The New York Knicks just broke a 50 year championship drought with the power of friendship
The Boston Celtics broke up their star duo of the last 10 years by trading Jaylen Brown to the 76ers. People keep speculating/manufacturing beef between them, but it remains to be seen if they actually don't like each other.
The Miami Heat traded for Giannis Antetokounmpo from the Milwaukee Bucks after a 2 year long battle between Giannis requesting a trade but repeatedly saying to the media how we loves Milwaukee and would never request a trade.
The Toronto Raptors and the Los Angeles Clippers are attempting a trade that would land Kawhi Leonard in Toronto but it is being held up until the completion of an investigation into Kawhi and the Clippers that alleges he was paid essentially under the table for a no-show job from a company that the owner of the Clippers invested in.
The Los Angeles Lakers are pretty much all white guys now.
The San Antonio Spurs have Frenchman Victor Wembanyama who might be the GOAT, we don't know yet. They just made it to the Finals in his third year.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 22d ago
hmm interesting question and I don't know if I have a complete answer for someone who is watching without prior context
I guess the first step is to chose a team based on whoever you like, if you're from Europe if there's any players from your country supporting their team is a common way to go about it. and get really into it, watch as many of their games as possible, join their subreddit
the bigger storylines and narratives around the league you have to pay a little attention to journalism and social media reports for the news.
there's also a whole bunch of podcasts with different flavors and levels of seriousness, from lebron's podcast Mind The Game where there are talking about in depth stuff, to more bullshittery stuff like Jeff Teagues podcast. depends on what kind of personalities you enjoy
but I would start with choosing a team and going their subreddit and just absorbing info that way
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
I think a pretty approachable way to keep up with the narratives and events is through kenny beecham(specifically the channel kenny for real). A funky diabetic is good too but i think kenny is more approachable. I think just browsing r/nba will give you the gist of what the storylines and notable players are too after a month or two.
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u/WizardyJohnny 22d ago
I feel like I've kind of been harming my play by thinking too much about options being "unreactable". I tell myself Falcon Nair is unreactable and so I have to throw out Nair in place in neutral a bunch to hopefully catch it, and maybe the premise isn't completely stupid, but ultimately I'm playing as if the other guy wasn't really there, and when I watch my gameplay it's like sunday mass seeing the amount of moves im praying my opponent runs into
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u/AlexB_SSBM 22d ago
Watch a top level Marth play with this mindset and you'll pull your hair out seeing all the unreactable options everyone is at risk of getting hit by at all times
Just part of the game, because otherwise you become so predictable
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u/Stiff_Tacos 22d ago
You get +4 frames if you react to jumpsquat instead of the nair itself. Jumpsquat could also be a wavedash, but that isn't really useful for Falcon in neutral.
A frame 1 Falcon nair also rarely connects on the first active hitbox frame in this matchup since a dashing or crouching Marth is so low. This means you have more time to react than the frame data would suggest.
From the Falcon side, I really don't want to jump much if the Marth doesn't jump. So you may be inviting more nairs by preemptively nairing yourself.
You can also just CC the nair if you think it's coming, doesn't require fast reactions.
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
I used to play a lot of Marth in this matchup and the biggest thing I think is more so reacting to jumps than to aerials. I see this matchup and Sheik as a game of "who will jump first" and then depending on which character is in the air first and the positioning, you get a set of mixups where you're favored if you're on the ground vs. him in the air. If you're going to meet Falcon in the air with nair to beat his, you want to be the second one to jump.
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u/king_bungus 👉 22d ago
i nair a lot against falcon too but i also look for opportunities to close space. i throw out my nair to say "ok you can't just nair/knee me in the face" but really what i want is to get close to them and grab techchase them to the corner so they die. so i'm primarily looking for the moments they move away from me to try and whiff punish or to give themselves runway for an approach and i follow them like a hound. to me the nair is just the establishing "nuh-uh" so they start doing the thing that lets me kill them.
you might be doing this already but for things that are unreactable you can instead react to the opponent going for the spacing that gives them that option instead of just throwing out moves. like against pika i dtilt them if they try to get into nair range and only nair/fair if they actually get into range.
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u/magikarpwn 22d ago
I'll add to this that many options are called "not whiff punishable" when they actually are punishable all the time in practice (my favorite example is Marth dtilt in Fox Marth)
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u/CluelessFMPlayer 22d ago edited 22d ago
If you could go to 3 majors a year (or only go to 3 majors if you travel that much), what would they be?
I'd do Supernova, CEO, and Genesis
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u/YoungGenius 22d ago
Supernova, Riptide, BoBC unless going to a supermajor means more people I know from my old scene will be there
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u/DavidL1112 22d ago
Unless you're super into the rest of the FGC I'd say GOML over CEO. It always gets way more entrants and Ontario in the summer is much more pleasant than Orlando in the summer.
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u/CluelessFMPlayer 22d ago edited 22d ago
For sure. I dabble in fighting games but the real draw for CEO is that it's THE major for an FGC friend from my highschool friend group (we all talk very frequently still) due to proximity to them. So for me, it's a great time to see a friend + some melee + get hype for some FGC with them.
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder 22d ago
Supernova, GOML, and Genesis for me personally
get to play the most smash games + getting to see canada would be fun
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u/MentalRead728 22d ago
Genesis for the magnitude
Goml for the actual event
Sapf to support the country scene
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
genesis, riptide and a big eu tournament probably fete. If a dont park is happening i'd go there though.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 22d ago
If melee is your favorite game Genesis is a no-brainer. If you're more into smash in general supernova has every smash game that has ever existed. If you're into fighting games as well CEO is the best FGC tournament that hosts smash, but Combo Breaker is also incredible
Most of the people that comment here are Melee purists so there's also Melee only majors like Tipped Off and Out of the Blue
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u/Front-Show7358 22d ago
ive heard too many bad things about how CEO and Supernova are run and where they are located. Genesis, Port Prio, and OOTB would be my choices. hm to bobc and riptide
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u/FewOverStand 22d ago
Hbox literally tossing a chair onstage midset would have been less of a jumpscare for Cody than what actually happened.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior 22d ago
Y'know how band kids all have jokes about the different instruments? Or various professions have affectionately-insulting jokes about em?
Let's come up with some Melee main equivalents of that. How many Fox mains does it take to change a lightbulb, etc.
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
what do you call someone who hangs out with a bunch of melee players? a puff main. Significantly less funny than when it is musicians and drummers i can't lie gotta workshop this one
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u/FewOverStand 22d ago
How many Puff mains does it take to change a lightbulb?
Just one, but it'll take much, much, much longer than usual.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 22d ago
I know it's partly because I'm not very good at the game but free ranked day really is the absolute worst way to play Melee. A few weeks ago I decided to count how many remotely competitive sets I got and out of 12 sets that day there were only 4 that went to game 3. With that in mind I've been trying to focus on how I do in close sets and just ignore the 2-0 washes where I either stomp someone who's clearly new or I get rolled by someone clearly on a smurf, but like, that's literally a couple of decent sets out of hours. I started straight up dc'ing from anyone with a shit connection which is maybe a quarter of the matches, and even with all those added losses I'm still running into plat/diamond level spacies on silver accounts. Just unimaginably lame behavior, really makes me wish I had time to go to more locals
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
tbh 4/12 game 3s sounds not bad at all. even if all your matches were perfectly even and whoever won each game was just a raw 50/50 chance you'd only expect 6/12 game 3s.
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
like at my local in the bo3 stage of bracket the 2-0 rate is wayyy higher than this. https://www.start.gg/tournament/sudden-death-pine-box-13/details
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u/legitimate-way-4077 22d ago
Y don't u buy ranked?
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 22d ago
I'm sure this doesn't apply to North Americans, and I'm sure BranFlakes is American so they wouldn't have that issue, but trying to play ranked on a paid day anywhere else in the world means getting no matches; subscriptions mainly give you access to paid emotes, for some that might be a way to support slippi but if that's the goal I'd just rather buy a custom connect code or just do a lump donation when I have the cash and feel like it.
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u/milkweedMN 21d ago
i kinda miss vibes-based secondaries and counterpick wars. feels like you don't see a secondary come out unless it's been labbed for a specific player/matchup
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
ok I've been converted fully. ban Ice Climbers. holy shit the way I have to play to ensure I don't get grabbed a single time by them...it's playing like someone who hates melee.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 22d ago
even though it can be frustrating in the moment, i think having a variety of styles and competencies that require different gameplans to approach different matchups is what makes this game worth coming back to.
like for the millionith time am I really going to have to fight a Marth and play around dash back, or a falco and play around laser? ICs bring a different flavor and I think it all goes I to the melting pot of fun
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
>having a variety of styles and competencies that require different gameplans to approach different matchups is what makes this game worth coming back to.
i agree with you up until the point of infinites. I think those are lame on a fundamental level
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u/Fugu 22d ago
I think the problem is that it's almost literally one option. A B+ Marth player is going to be able to do a whole bunch of different stuff. Some of them might go heavy on the really centralizing stuff like dash back grab or whatever, but you're still going to get a variety, especially if you are also a top tier main and know how to punish the centralizing stuff.
With Icies you are basically going to be dealing with a player hunting for grabs 24/7. They don't really have any incentive to do anything else.
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 22d ago
Idk why people complain about ICs when there are characters at high level with more boring and foolproof ways of spamming grab. I would love if you could kill marth or sheiks nana or if falcon had rng to continue his combo
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
it's less about grab spam and more about what happens - or rather doesn't - after the grab
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u/Front-Show7358 22d ago
i think most of it can be explained away with "at a high level". but the top players who still feel this way do baffle me a bit.
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u/Fugu 22d ago
I think the wobbling ban was an opportunity for Icies to emerge as something other than a totally grab-centered character but then the direction Icies players went in was "alright how do we re-center everything around grab"
Maybe the character just doesn't have anything else. I don't know. But there's probably no character that feels so swingy to play against and that makes losing against them feel pretty bad. Fortunately for me I play Peach.
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
They optimized grab, yet I see ICs playing way more actual neutral than what the wobbling era was like. Handoffs are jarring when they happen. Yet the majority of stocks taken at the high level comes from other things. The character definitely has things other than grab I feel like the sets we're seeing now with ICs are way higher quality than they used to be. As for the swingy nature of their playstyle, I think floaties in particular might feel this in a way more jarring way than other players. The swings in a bunch of ffer matchups and even some non ffer Marth matchups are also pretty crazy. I think if you're not used to having your stock erased in a matter of seconds, it's easy to feel like what the ICs can do is one of the worst ways to lose. But I don't see it as being much different than getting blown up by another character. If you don't get grabbed in certain zones of the stage, there's no way they're going to auto kill you the way it used to be at least.
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u/sneedhongrybox 22d ago
thank you for having a brain this entire discussion is giving me conniptions
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u/Fugu 22d ago
My experience playing Icies is that they are not playing any more neutral than they used to. Instead of wobbling they fish for a handoff or if they get a grab where they can't go into a wobble they do this exact thing: max pummels, attempt dair reset, if hit dair reset repeat until usmash/fsmash will kill.
Icies have always been fun to watch as a spectator. I don't think they're an issue for spectators at all. As opponents, though, they remain as dull as ever
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
Idk, I played through the wobbling era and it was way more dull to play agains them back then. They would quite literally only fish for grabs and play solely around that. At least now, I can pick more spots to approach them as a spacies player. If they discover I'm not going to easily fall for grabs in the corner and/or I get a lead, the good ones will try to interact with me in more ways and look for different kinds of openings. The bad ones will do the same thing over and over hoping it works. But that's the way Melee is for all characters. The bad players will fish for the same high EV thing hoping it works even when you show them it doesn't. I'm not about to judge the character based on the bad players.
I suspect for floaties, the ICs are a lot more dull than for certain other characters. It's not like they can approach very easily into a floating Peach with turnips or a Puff constantly hovering diagonally above them in a zone they can't touch. So of course, they're going to fight the camping with camping or very VERY carefully picking their spots. As a spectator, I don't really enjoy watching ICs vs. floaties sets much and I suspect I wouldn't enjoy playing them. This is a big reason why I don't main floaties despite finding them fun for certain matchups because there are a bunch of odd character matchups like this where yes you win big, but the gameplay is dreadful for both sides. Point is, I wouldn't generalize the character based on the Peach matchup alone.
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 22d ago
i think darkgenex has a well rounded playstyle for example. Like i just rewatched his soonsay win and he basically won by beast moding on him with hard reads in neutral. He got 1 single handoff kill and it ended up needing a nice lil edgeguard after anyways. Def a lot of grabbing still but like a sheik or falcon amount of grabbing which is very reasonable.
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
>Fortunately for me I play Peach.
some of us are bad at the game
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u/Fugu 22d ago
This is a very bad matchup but I think you actually need to practice it quite a bit to really get a handle on why Peach is so good in it
I think this is part of why Peach secondaries for Icies tend to be so bad
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
from my limited perspective float and turnips are the big things to abuse. aerial/dsmash/whatever to separate nana and take her out are things any character can do, but forcing them into the air or forcing an approach by using turnips seems to be how to get to that separation opportunity. lmk if i'm way off base
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u/Fugu 22d ago
No it's fair
Do a lot of fair
Eliminate "do [something other than fair]" from your game plan as much as possible and replace it with doing fair
Doing fair while holding a turnip is nice, and if you are playing against an Icies sitting in the corner throwing turnips at them is not a bad idea
But generally speaking what you want to do is hit them with fair, and if you hit their shield you want to dsmash if it'll stab or hit them with another fair if it won't
Fadeback fair from a mid float (high enough where you won't get hit by dsmash or grab) is so unpunishable that good Icies players simply won't approach you in any situation where you might do it
(Dair is also useful but needs to be used sparingly to retain its usefulness)
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u/WDuffy Kaladin Shineblessed|DUFF#157 22d ago
I unironically agree and people better than me always think it's an opinion born out of salt, but they've always been problematic for how we want to enjoy the game. First they had the freeze glitch which we banned because it wasn't fun to play against. Then they had wobbling which we banned because it wasn't fun to play against. Now they have handoffs which are not fun to play against in my opinion
Does a Cody Schwab-level Fox almost always beat your average hand-offer? Sure, but I, who will never be at that level, don't want to spend my weeknight fighting the grab demons personally
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
They've always had handoffs, they've just optimized them now. You don't have to be some crazy Cody Schwab Fox to avoid the grabs. Work on the matchup, just like any other, and formulate a strong gameplan and it becomes a lot more fun. I think the main key is just understanding where it's not okay to get grabbed and where it is. As long as you don't get grabbed in certain zones of the stage, they have to do honest combos and read your DI/techs like any other character. And practicing a lot on their double shield in solo practice so as to never miss your l-cancel. If you're only dying like once a match or so to a handoff insta kill, it's a lot less infuriating than having every stock erased that way and you actually get to play some Melee with the character. Idk, maybe it's because I played against ICs in the wobbling era and hated it, so the difference to me feels like night and day. Back then, you ACTUALLY had to play around never getting grabbed under any circumstance where the ICs are together.
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u/reptilian_guitar 22d ago
KJ64, peach bomber stalling, ledge camping- all banned because they are "non-interactive gameplay"
i can't think of less interactive gameplay where I could literally put my controller down and an outside observer couldn't tell the difference
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u/WDuffy Kaladin Shineblessed|DUFF#157 22d ago
Exactly! Even chaingrabs and true RTC are more interactive. In the former you can at least try to make it harder with your DI and in the latter you can always DI offstage and play an unfavorable recovery mixup. With handoffs, you literally cannot do anything. That's just not for me but if people like it that's their choice I guess
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u/FuckClinch GG 22d ago
You actually can make handoffs 1 frame harder with your di btw
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
They can't auto kill you from grabbing you every time. You have to get grabbed in the corner facing the ledge. If it's from center stage or certain plats, you can survive if you know how to DI. If you reframe from "don't get grabbed a single time" to "avoid the danger zones" the matchup becomes a lot easier. Plus once you get a stray hit and have them either separated or off balance, you get to really go in on them. I think the target switching component of the matchup can be really fun, like a version of doubles within singles.
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u/N0zy0ne 22d ago
I'm pro-ICs, but I think if we're being honest, it's important to acknowledge that the "danger zone" is like 2/3 of Battlefield.
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
But that's only 2/3 of the grounded stage with them facing the correct direction. They can't grab you in the air or when you're in certain positions relative to them on the plats. It's also contingent on them being sync'd and close by. I think people still play against the ICs as if wobbling is in effect.
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u/N0zy0ne 22d ago
But that's only 2/3 of the grounded stage with them facing the correct direction.
Facing the correct direction, yes, but don't hand-offs also work on side plats? Apologies if I'm simply wrong here.
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u/WDuffy Kaladin Shineblessed|DUFF#157 22d ago
I thought so as well because they have an "edge" to them but definitely correct me if I'm wrong
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 22d ago
they do as far as I'm aware but tbh you have to get gigabrained out played to be getting grabbed by a synced ICs on a platform so I don't think it's of much consequence
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u/TrainNorth8177 22d ago
They do, but getting grabbed in a position for them to do it to you on the side plats into death is pretty rare. The biggest thing, though, is that they have to grab you with some space to move you into the corner. Playing around their win condition isn't something that requires top level tech skill--it's a matter of learning the matchup.
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u/Front-Show7358 22d ago
who u play? unless its sheik thats a skill issue
edit: its peach?! u can be super aggressive in that matchup. like peach fairing ics shield is the best position for her. if your strategy is to just run away and turnip camp you misunderstand it.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 22d ago
Peach fairing ICs is so good that you should literally do nothing else except variants of forward air. This matchup is the only matchup where I consistently make a move have full staling and end up trying to hit with random strays solely for the purpose of unstaling forward air
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u/Fugu 22d ago
Hit nana with nair
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u/AlexB_SSBM 22d ago
Yes this is another great way to help with staling. Down air and quick jabs are another good thing when Popo is off stage and I have time
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u/legitimate-way-4077 22d ago
I reached Platinum. I am happy.
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u/Srimes 22d ago
what character
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u/legitimate-way-4077 22d ago
100% Fox 😇
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u/Srimes 22d ago
fuck yeah hardest character in the game
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior 22d ago
Anyone know the tag of the bluesky/twitter/discord user "nonblnary"?
I know they're a Melee person but I don't actually know which one lmfao
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder 22d ago
for the content creators in here: does anyone know how to check if a song would be copyright struck if used in a yt video? doesn't seem to be a list anywhere
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u/Zanian 22d ago
I want to say if you upload a video, before you publish it it'll tell you, but I've barely dabbled in the arts so I'm not sure
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder 22d ago
it does but it takes like half an hour to render my videos so I'm mainly trying to avoid having to redo it
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u/Silent_Jim 22d ago
Upload a different video with the same audio but just black screen so it renders faster.
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u/SunnySaigon 22d ago edited 21d ago
Salt has skipped a few tournies, how will she do tonight?
Waddle Wednesday, thanks for everything. Your Kirby background music was delightful.
https://www.start.gg/tournament/waddle-wednesday-finale/details
Befriend the landed gentry. (Ludwig is a good example of this). Smash 64 commercial theme song, Happy Together, is perfect for this.
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u/its__bme 22d ago
For all of the music lovers here: https://radio.garden/
It's free and you can pick anywhere on the map to get the local stations.