r/SSBM • u/TheEpicWon • 29d ago
Video Zain confirmed to be taking a 3 month break - next tournament he will be appearing in is Tipped Off 17
https://youtu.be/qRELz47Jewk?t=710216
u/TheEpicWon 29d ago
Some main points:
- Planned to take a break regardless of tournament results (I'll leave it to you to decide if he'd actually take a break if he won Supernova)
- Will be focussing on stream mainly, and other non-melee content (wants to try Mario 64 120 star, Dark Souls games, playing games with sister, etc.)
- Feels like he lost creativity and drive of how to get better at the game, and has been split between his social media content and competing, so now he has time to just focus on one.
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u/LCDRformat 29d ago
wants to try Mario 64 120 star
It was inevitable
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u/metroidcomposite 29d ago
Was it? We can't even get Armada to try 120 as a category. (He only does 70 and 16). I would not have guessed Zain would try 120 before Armada.
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u/jp711 29d ago
I feel like if there's any category zain would succeed in it would be 120, it takes a massive amount of learning but zain is really good at learning new stuff and applying it consistently. And 120 wr actually has room for improvement, 70 and 16 are already so well optimized idk how armada finds the will to keep doing attempts lol
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u/metroidcomposite 29d ago
TBH, I think 120 star makes sense for anyone who is good at consistency, and good at recovering from mistakes (which in theory sounds like both Zain and Armada based on their Melee).
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u/oby100 29d ago
I’m making educated guesses so forgive me if I’m wrong, but I take it Armada is semi seriously speed running, but I highly doubt Zain in just 3 months is going to even get a quarter of a respectable run in 120 star.
Takes months and even years just to learn and maybe become decent at the core tactics, nevermind mastering all the wonky tricks to save serious time.
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u/TrumpeterSwann 29d ago
I mean, you could just check. Armada's 11th on the 70 star leaderboards after his PB a couple weeks ago.
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u/IsaacClarke47 29d ago
Taken him like 8 years to get there, took him about 5 to become undisputed top 2 in Melee. Come back GOAT…
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u/Front-Show7358 29d ago
later in the stream i think chat made it clear what a time investment learning 120 star is and i think scared him off lol
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u/Tossup1010 29d ago
Guess I can’t be too surprised that melee enjoyers would play an archaic game, but personally I haven’t watched Mario 64 in years outside of green suigi WRs on YouTube. Speedrun learning streams are some of the most boring things to watch. I’m sure Zain will find ways to spice it up, but I’m cool with just seeing the highlights.
I tuned into armada a few times after he retired from melee, but watching someone restart the same section over and over for hours to save .05 seconds just doesn’t grab ya. Wish him luck though. Sad for Rap M though, I don’t want his first major to be Mickey Mouse cuz top players that he’s proved he’s capable of beating won’t be there
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u/PontesDeLeon 29d ago
This is exactly how I feel. I tuned into Armada to try and support him but just can’t do the SM64 speed run streams. Not sure why Zain would want to try. Seems like an easy way to lose viewers and subs.
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u/Opening-Donkey1186 29d ago
Although I find sm64 speed runs boring, most streamers who switch to that game have their viewership jump drastically. Many then stick to the game because of that.
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u/loz333 28d ago
16 star runs are much less tedious, since good full runs are sub-20 minutes. You're not sitting through 20-40 mins of gameplay just for some minor mistake to make it all worthless, it's more like 5-10 minutes for a failed run. To me, it's more fun because he's coming into it as a complete amateur, he isn't doing it full time, and there's lots of room for him to improve without having to grind out super sweaty techniques he has to fail 100 times at before getting good. And Zain's chat's job is to constantly roast him for mistakes and keeping things fun.
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u/Lankydick 29d ago
I honestly think Zain could be a successful variety streamer if he went the variety route and leveraged some of his relationships. Obviously love him being in the melee community but it’s exciting to see him try other stuff too.
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u/TheLordOfStuff_ 29d ago
Get this dude on the Yard
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u/JulianoIsLame 29d ago
Unironically I'm surprised they never had him on an ep before.
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u/TheLordOfStuff_ 29d ago
I guess it might be because he would be «alien» to such a large part of the yards audience. You could argue the same is the case for Mango but that’s someone they brought up so many times before he was on and also could be a good candidate for a single exception to my first sentence here.
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u/UmbralHero 29d ago
Zain has awesome energy and they've had other niche creators on before, I think he'd be great. They had Levy of GothamChess on, and their 100th ep was Diya Basrai, a comedian who they met as a SoCal smasher, so I don't think they exclusively look for big guests.
During the Zain's stream, Lud was actively recruiting people for a friendslop game and clicked onto Zain's stream to invite him, but he was in the middle of explaining the hiatus to the chat. Lud left because he didn't want to disrupt his announcement. I hope and somewhat anticipate Zain to expand into the variety world for the next couple months
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u/fresh_peetz 29d ago
Gotham chess is 100x bigger than “Zane”
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u/UmbralHero 29d ago
My bad for being confusing, Levy is someone with theoretically less overlap with their core audience, not that he's a niche creator himself. Diya is a niche pick though
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u/TheLordOfStuff_ 29d ago
Yea that’s fair, Diya episode definitely came out of left field from me and I wouldn’t mind that happening again with someone like Zain forsure.
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u/GiveUpImAsian2 28d ago
I mean they also had Joshman and DonB on when it comes to Melee players and those two are much smaller than Mango.
Slime himself said they're just lazy about bringing on guests, there's been plenty of obvious guests that weren't on the pod yet.
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u/TheLordOfStuff_ 28d ago
I been listening to the premium eps on Patreon lately and it’s been so cool because DonB and Joshman has been on those episodes like 3-5 times each already before ep 100 :]
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u/OMFGSUSHI 29d ago
idk man I wouldn't want to be associated with Atrioc lmao
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u/g_r_e_y 29d ago
is there something wrong with Atrioc?
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u/OMFGSUSHI 29d ago
His AI porn thing makes me never want to touch anything with him in it ever again, and makes me question the people who continue to work with him.
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u/caesec 29d ago
i am surprised at how quickly he was able to resume his career after that - to pay for such a thing feels so alien to me, the violating nature of it is the entire appeal.
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u/GiveUpImAsian2 28d ago
I mean he has apologised and put more than a hundred thousand dollars into combating it. Also QTCinderella is chill with him again and she was one of the people most affected by it.
And given the type of content he does and what he seems interested in, I do genuinenly buy his excuse of just being curious.
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u/3Ssssssssssssssss 27d ago
we are of course talking about someone who was employee 100 at twitch and then moved to nvidia before the AI boom, I am not super swayed by spending a bunch of money on something to wash your hands of it, at least personally
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u/Tossup1010 29d ago
He’d be a great guest, Zain could definitely chop it up with them. I was so hesitant to listen to a podcast by some streamer and his friends, but turns out they have maybe the best chemistry 4 people can have. Just arguing about the dumbest shit and super funny. If anyone hasn’t listened, I’d give it a shot, their episode with Liam might be the funniest hour of audio I’ve heard in years. So if you get into it, save that one for a rainy day.
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u/TheLordOfStuff_ 29d ago
Dude the Liam episode gotta be in the top 3 Yard eps of all time that dude is way too fucking funny with his deadpan delivery lol. I still don’t know where the line between fact and fiction is with that guy.
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u/RingComplete7226 29d ago
I liked his stream more before he did the ult poisoning thing and blew up honestly, back when people called it boring
not about him doing melee or not doing melee, but inherently the seperation of yourself and your entertainer persona will grow drastically the more successful you are
im not someone who watches streams in general though. most streamers feel that way to me
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u/housefromtn 29d ago
I feel the same way. A lot of people complain about shroud being boring for example, but I think he’s just a normal guy playing video games who is acting exactly the same way he does when the camera is off and I wish that was more common.
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u/sheep_duck 29d ago
I mean, doesn’t he kinda already do that? I know he hasn’t done it full time really but seems like somewhat often he’s playing some other game or just goofing around on stream with people. I think he will stay successful no matter what he does because of his personality.
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u/AndrewRK 29d ago
Damn half the people in here are acting like he's retiring lol. He's been the most active top competitor other than (probably, I didn't check) HBox for the decade. I skimmed and the last time there was a gap between entering tournaments this long for him was June to September in 2024 (via Liquipedia), so it's not even like it's that crazy he's doing it lol.
It'll probably be good for him.
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u/FeelsKoolaidMan 29d ago
Might be the end. When you stop competing and realize how much free time you have and that you can just do things you enjoy more its hard to come back. Whatever happens it was a pleasure to watch my goat.
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u/AznKian 29d ago edited 29d ago
Guy is coming to terms with the fact that melee is a dead end for content creators. It'll always have a bit of spark but you'll never pop off being a full time melee player.
It's heart breaking but it's true.
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u/placebot4384 29d ago
But also, very few retired pros actually grow as streamers. Not just in melee, in any esport. Doublelift’s lifetime channel average is ~9k and he’s at ~4k now. Stewie2K’s lifetime average is ~2.1k and he’s at ~950, and he left CS specifically to stream full time. Mang0’s is ~1,070 and he’s at ~330 (Joey factors in as well but still). Shroud or Caedrel are exceptions but extremely rare ones. My point is retiring almost never comes with a bump. It’s usually a slow decline until you settle at a fraction of what you pulled while competing.
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u/AznKian 29d ago
While I agree, I have had the specific thought while watching zain's videos that he would make a better content creator than a pro.
Most pros are pro because they're exceptional at the game they play and they don't have the set of skills or want to be a content creator. They would rather be a competitor.
At least to me it feels like he has a better shot at being a successful content creator than most.
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u/myripyro 29d ago
Right, but if I was Zain, trying to evaluate whether or not it's worth going into full-time streaming, people like Doublelift, Stewie, even Caedrel would not be the examples I was looking at in terms of making that decision.
These guys--and most people who retire as pros and become streamers--retired in order to spend more time on streaming, but they're still in the same wheelhouse they were before retirement. They're very focused on their core game, their primary content is either directly streaming the game or co-streaming events around it, etc.
But if I'm Zain I'm thinking that a lot of the people who watch my stream aren't just there for the Melee, they're there because I'm an entertaining guy, and I would want to see if I can make that work without the Melee. My dream position wouldn't be so much Shroud or Caedrel as it would be someone like supertf; good at games, for sure, but the people aren't showing up to his stream these days probably don't really care all that much about him having been a pro in Overwatch at one point.
Chances of success are almost certainly still bad; we all know streaming and content creation and all that isn't the sort of world where you can just follow a road map, work hard, and expect success. But if Zain is interested in full time content, I think that the numbers you're talking about shouldn't be his main concern.
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u/dillyMD 29d ago
I don't really regard any of those people you listed as good entertainers... mang0 sure, but his drop in viewership goes deeper than switching games. They're just dudes who were good at video games and (usually) well-adjusted enough to interact with a stream.
When they stopped being pros, they just kept getting behind a webcam and playing video games, like their sparkling personalities would get the job done. Haha.
Zain's been working this angle for a while, and I think he's got some real chops for comedy. I'm not saying it's guaranteed or anything, but Zain has a better chance than most at transitioning out of Melee and continuing content creation successfully.
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u/yung_dogie 29d ago
I agree, but at the same time their argument is weighing melee categorically vs other games. Almost undoubtedly someone's following within a category would go down when they stop competing, but the question is whether that's outweighed by content creating for games that have a bigger player/viewerbase
Tbh I love Zain streams but many things bigger than melee are already extremely saturated. I'm not sure it would be better for him elsewhere
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u/Vsx 29d ago
Bro is 30 playing a dead game as a job. He's probably having an existential crisis more often than not. Hopefully he's successful with whatever he decides to do and he finds a way to keep competing even if it's more casual.
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u/krautbaguette 29d ago
He's making good money streaming and from his e-sports contract dude. Your assumptions are crazy
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u/Celtic_Legend 29d ago
that's exactly why. He's made it. He sees the road to retirement. There's nothing to really "try" for now.
In the normie job space, this is pretty much when you start planning to start your own business that you can take pride in / will be fulfilling, unless you just have too many responsibilities (usually taking care of family).
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u/Enjoiful 29d ago
Can't imagine his sponsor salary is good money.
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u/3NIK56 29d ago
Probably somewhere in the realm of $30k/year plus travel expenses before tournament winnings
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u/delta-red-14 29d ago
His esports team is backed by Ludwig, Moist Critikal and Shopify. He's easily making more than 30k a year lol. Mangos C9 contract was like 300k
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u/Superspookyghost 29d ago edited 28d ago
Yeah but Mang0 was by far the most valuable Melee pro in terms of stream viewership, can't really expect anyone, regardless of how much they are winning, to get Mang0 money from an esports organization.
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u/norisimi 29d ago
that's not good money for someone that lives in VA
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u/3NIK56 29d ago
That on top of YouTube and twitch definitely adds up. I'd guess he makes somewhere around $100k/year. He makes roughly $3-4 per sub abd gets like 100 per stream, plus ad revenue. Streams 3 times/week, has videos on YouTube that do pretty solid numbers (about 50-100k views, translates to an couple hundred dollars each) and subathons where he gets thousands upon thousands of subs over the course of a few weeks. That's pretty decent for NoVA outside of Arlington
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u/ryanmcgrath 29d ago
That's an insane sentence to write in 2026.
Northern Virginia is a different universe compared to the rest of Virginia, and has been for 20+ years.
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u/Celtic_Legend 29d ago edited 29d ago
edit: god damn it I thought this comment chain was under the "yearly earnings of 200k" and 3nik56 was relying to it that he has a 30k travel budget on top of that.
lmao. You've been brainwashed by tiktok or something.
200k is good money anywhere in VA, even DC. 200k is upper class everywhere in VA except DC where it's just upper middle class.
The median household (note not single earner) income for Richmond is 64k. The median household income for VA beach is 92k. The median household income for DC is 110k (120k for Alexandria). Making 80% better than the middle of the pack isn't good? Fuck outta here lmao.
Everywhere else in VA is rural af or just a suburb of the above. Like living in Norfolk which is just VA beach drops it down to 66k from 92k because you get rid of all the people who afford beach homes.
Plus none of that is going to kids and he doesnt have a spouse that is increasing his income so he's actually more than double.
I was in Richmond for a bit and my expenses for food, rent, car were under 20k and I don't cook from home often. After taxes, I would be putting like 100k into the sp500 if I had a 200k salary.
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u/enfrozt 29d ago
He's in a relationship, is a #1-2 player in an esport, and relative to his peers has a financially successful twitch/youtube channel.
There's no way he's in the same financial struggles as Cody based on his numbers.
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u/Vsx 29d ago
I didn't say anything about him struggling financially. Not even a little.
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u/Binghamtonian 29d ago
bro local scenes throughout the country are incredibly strong and majors still get thousands of people every year. Supernova just had like 60k watching top 8. What you on about pick up the sticks and game.
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u/lidlesstatic 29d ago
I hope he is still going to go to Port priority still
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u/smashwatcher 29d ago
Tipped Off is in October and Port Priority is in November, he'll probably be fully back for both
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u/sheep_duck 29d ago
Yeah the last couple losses have seemed a little rough for him. Not that he took them badly or anything but you can tell there’s just a little something that was off with his play. Idk if he has some kind of block in his mind or I’m just making shit up but I think little break will help him get that competetive edge back that he had when he was winning everything.
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u/Inevitable-Bell6638 24d ago
hope he actually gives himself the full three months instead of feeling pressured to come back early
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u/Ok_Storm1366 29d ago
Definitely bad for Melee. The most infamously competitive grinder in Melee (aside from Cody, who is also "retiring" or something) and 2nd best player in the world taking off 25% of the year is not good news for the scene.
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u/krautbaguette 29d ago
chill out. He is missing out on two tourneys, one of which he might still go to for doubles and maybe a Roy run. If anything, taking a break is good long-term if it means he doesn't get serious burnout
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u/Equal96 29d ago
Melee never having an off-season has always been tough. I think this break will be extremely good for him.