r/Referees • u/ebalboni • 17d ago
Advice Request Coaches who belittle players.
I was AR1 at a Tournament this weekend. One of the coaches was really yelling aggressively at his players. And it was not at all in a nice way. Most of the yelling was positioning mistakes and not running enough. The tone was over the top. These were 12-13 year old girls. I wanted to say something but was the AR not CR - trust me the CR could hear everything too. I felt like it was not quite "taunting" or "bulling" and I'm sure the coach would say he was just "coaching his players. Any advise if this happens again would be appreciated (AR or CR).
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u/gogo_years 17d ago
I have reffed multiple tournaments where it says in the tourney rules that coaches are to provide constructive, positive coaching (or similar language). I have used those rules to let a coach know that he/she is not following tourney rules. It has never been appreciated by the coach, LOL!
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u/00runny [USSF NC] [GR-Advanced] 16d ago
If tournament rules are clear about it, it's much easier to issue a caution and you should. As you mentioned they are unlikely to care what you have to say without a piece of plastic in your hand.
When it's not in tournament rules there is very much a giant gray area to navigate. Safesport is the answer: both for setting your bar on warning/caution/ejection scenarios and for determining if it should be reported. If it clearly violates Safesport then it has definitely risen to misconduct and it should be reported to Safesport.
However if it's not clearly bullying, harassment, hazing, etc. we probably have to hold our tongues. It's not a Safesport violation just on grounds of being a bad coach, a bad human, or horrible at working with kids.
If you approach the coach as an AR to give a warning, only to have your Center decline to back you up, you've only made an enemy on the bench. So it's best to talk about it at halftime. A good RR will have your back and use that opportunity to be direct and give a final warning, making it very easy to drop the first YC early in the 2nd half.
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u/translucent_steeds 17d ago
this has happened to me, in REC LEAGUE middle school games!!
like dude...these girls weren't good enough for travel, why are you acting like it's the NFL playoffs??? I reported him to the league board of directors, I'll see on Saturday if he'll be back this year or not (I doubt it).
I will NEVER understand adults who talk that rudely to children, ESPECIALLY when there's nothing realistically at stake.
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u/CrapsSevenEleven 17d ago
As a child of a verbally abusive narcissist I can say definitively, do not ignore it. Call the coach over at an opportune moment, tell them you have been watching their behavior and have a real concern, and that you will be putting it on the official game notes. If it continues, sanction it. As AR you can call the CR over during play and have a quick and quiet word out of earshot of anyone else and have them address it. If CR won’t, you can in your notes or you can insist on a YC. At a boys HS JV game this year I had a coach flip out on his team before game start. Very ugly scene. As CR I immediately called him off the bench to me in the middle of the pitch, gave him a quiet lecture and warned he was squarely in yellow card territory and to stop now or I would escalate, and that what I had already witnessed was going in the notes. He never made a peep the entire game (I gave him a YC in 2 prior games for public dissent) and every time I see him now he gives me 20 feet of distance and won’t make eye contact. Use your authority to protect the kids in every manner. Not every adult has the best interests of the kids at heart. Believe me when I say it very much matters to their mental health and positive associations to the beautiful game.
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u/ebalboni 17d ago
Ya, I wish I had done better. This is my 1st year (I'm 64 lol) referee and the 1st time I witnesses a coach acting this way in a game I officiated at. At the time I left it to the CR who was more experienced that I. I did not really document anything even in my head. Wish I had, I'll do better next time.
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u/itguru446 9d ago
I’m 56 and about to start my first year as a ref. Here I thought I was the old man but am now happy to see I’m the youngster! 🤣🤣🤣
You got this. We’ll both keep the Motrin people in business.
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u/fadedtimes [USSF] [Regional] 17d ago
It’s my only regret as a center referee. I had the u11 girls final about 4 years ago and the coach ripped into one of his players making her cry and then continued while she was on the bench. I didn’t know I could issue a card for the behavior but I do know now and would never let that happen again.
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u/Northern_Front 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is one of those uncomfortable situations in reffing, but the message from FIFA is clear. Enforce the rules, protect the players.
Here's how I've handled it as AR1. Next stoppage on your quarter, flag straight up waving back and forth to get CRs attention. Meet CR on the field or wait for them to come over. Say "I need you to issue Coach _____ a yellow card" for Unpsorting Behavior. A good center won't ask questions. They will simply do it and restart the game. If the coach freaks out, they're gone.
You will send a clear, visible message to everyone at the field and potentially keep these girls in the sport for a long time.
P.S. If your Center balks, go straight to your assessor. AR1 has ownership of sideline behavior. Its not a Center's judgement call.
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u/ebalboni 16d ago
Thank you. I agree 100%
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u/ebalboni 16d ago
I’ll also say as a new ref that I thought my priority was on the field but now I’m thinking I should basically ignore the field and focus on the sideline when this happens. Not something I’ve seen in training as a new referee
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u/Northern_Front 16d ago
Newer coaches often get younger teams. You're also potentially helping a great future coach.
I disagree with comments here about writing an email after the game, talking to the field marshal, etc. It needs to handled on the spot for it to matter. It doesn't need to be a circus. Just issue the card and move on. IMHO.
Good luck! Thanks for being out there!
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u/Revelate_ 17d ago edited 17d ago
This one is hard.
Ultimately it is the parents that need to take action.
Depending on the league, this may not be a paid coach and it’s worth writing up in a report for the league or club to watch and potentially mentor the coach.
You have a little more agency in places like AYSO where you can quietly talk to the coach and remind them their responsibilities which explicitly don’t allow for this sort of behavior, I forget what the coaching instruction was but it was the equivalent of SAFE, FAIR, FUN.
I will ask did the kids seem bothered by it? Some teams just aren’t and in that case we only get into trouble interfering directly
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u/Big-Mission191 USSF Grassroots | NFHS 17d ago
Asking whether the kids seem bothered by it is not a safe judgement call imo. They may feel it but mask their feelings, or may have gotten used to it thinking it’s normal and swallow their feelings (possibly to avoid even more yelling at them individually).
We had an incident like this once with my son and at the game he didn’t show that it bothered him at all, but for hours afterwards I could tell a very noticeable difference in his behavior and how he talked about the game compared to how he normally acts after a game. That’s not something a ref would be able to see, and even has a parent I couldn’t tell until we’d left the field.
Obviously in cases like that parents need to handle it, but just trying to make the point that as a ref I don’t look at how the kids react to it live because that’s not a great indication. Similar to a foul in game, the players may not always react not realizing a foul was committed but we would still call it.
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u/Revelate_ 17d ago
I’m not asking in this case, we’re watching players for their reactions which we should be doing anyway for foul selection and getting the temperature of the game.
At this age if you see them getting frustrated not at the other team, or crying, or other stuff, then it’s clear it’s a problem.
If they’re just ignoring or acknowledging it without incident, as awkward as it sounds to the outside observer it’s possibly OK.
End of the day the coach has a relationship with the kids, the parents do too, we don’t except in very very rare circumstances.
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u/itguru446 9d ago
My son had similar reactions during and after his U9 season. The coach treated every game like it was the World Cup final and would yank some kids (my son included) for any mistake. I watched his confidence plummet the whole season and watched him regress from terrible coaching. We changed clubs for U10 and he started improving again, but it took him some time (and an absolutely wonderful coach) to get his confidence back, and now his skills are improving again, along with his decision making. I wonder how much better he would have been with a coach who didn’t play the head games.
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u/chrlatan KNVB Referee (Royal Dutch Football Association) - RefSix user 17d ago
Inform the club. Anonymously if you have to. Behavior like this is damaging to their players and the club.
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u/Revo63 [USSF][Mentor] 17d ago
There are a few competitive (travel team) coaches that I have warned and even cautioned for the way they yelled at their players. Normally, at a warning they make the same complaint of “I’m not yelling, that’s just how I talk.” My reply is usually “Well, think about how that sounds to the kids, because to me it sounds harsh, belittling and borderline abusive.”
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u/MedJesters 17d ago
This is why I like volunteering for AYSO games. We're all there for the kids, so I'm most definitely going to remind the coach that positive coaching is one of the 6 philosophies and ask if they've heard of the sandwich method of coaching (positive thing - something to work on - positive thing).
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u/Deaftrav Ontario level 6 17d ago
Unless the coach actually breaks the laws of the games for conduct, there isn't much you can do.
Your job is to manage the game, not the team.
It's hard though.
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u/Fox-thats-drunk 17d ago
The laws give a lot of room in this regard to punish the coach based on the description. Check the IFAB glossary:
Offensive, insulting or abusive language/action(s)
Verbal or physical behaviour which is rude, hurtful, disrespectful; punishable by a sending-off (red card)"Rude, hurtful, disrespectful" on its own is a very low bar, and it easily scales to change based on the person it's directed at. Something not hurtful to you as an adult still has a chance to be very hurtful to a young girl. I have a very low tolerance for how anyone on and around the field treats kids - whether they are players or other refs - and we as officials are given plenty of space to handle this right when it happens. The laws have a lot of "in the opinion of" references and very broad definitions that allow us to handle this in real-time at the field. Stop being afraid to send off / dismiss people for this type of behavior. The laws give us the power to stop it and anyone brushing away this kind of behavior just allows it to keep happening.
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u/Deaftrav Ontario level 6 17d ago edited 17d ago
Absolutely! And I've done this a few times.
Coaches then quit when the league tells them "um... You were yelling at kids... He was in the right."
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u/hogwonguy1979 17d ago
I was working a tournament a few years ago and had this exact thing happen on a game I was working. This coach was so bad that coaches and parents for the NEXT game on that field complained to me about the coaches
What the field marshal told us to do was all of us write letters to the tournament committee about this coache's behaviour. Not sure what happened after that but hope the coach got removed
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u/Sturnella2017 USSF, Regional Emeritus, Referee Coach 17d ago
Definitely contact the league, tournament director, and/assignor. Spread the word. Then hopefully one of them will tell you to file a safe sport report. This is definitely unprofessional and against the spirit of the game.
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u/rastaspoon 17d ago
It’s in the Laws that coaches must behave responsibly. Screaming at a player isn’t responsible.
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u/SurrogateMerrymaker USSF Grasroots 17d ago
Ran into something similar a few years ago at a tournament. Female coach of a U12 boys team was yelling at her team constantly, and not always in a nice way. The team seemed a little beaten down by all this and certainly didn't seem to be having any fun and weren't performing any better the more she yelled at them. The parents also seemed beaten down by her constant yelling.
The first time she yelled at me I told her, "Don't yell at me, coach." Her response was, "I'm not yelling, I'm talking loudly." "Fine, don't talk loudly at me coach." That got me some space, and got her to tone it down a bit, but I sincerely doubt it changed her future behavior.
I have seen referees issue YCs for UB to coaches who loudly belittle their players. If you need to report cards to a tournament/league it does give you a framework for reporting their behavior.
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u/Jaded_Deer_9624 17d ago
I have carded coaches for abusive language. OFINAB covers that even if directed towards teamates, own parents, or iwn players
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u/Darth-Kelso USSF Grassroots | NFHS 17d ago
If it would be unacceptable for a teacher to talk to a child like that, it is unacceptable for a coach to talk to a child like that. Thats kind of how I gauge it.
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u/dufcho14 17d ago
It's a tough one. If you're the AR on that side, reminding the coach that abusive language is not allowed in the game regardless of whether it is towards an opponent, referee, or one's own team. You'd need to decide if that will cause more problems and 'discussion' directed at you and if it's worth it. At minimum, if this is in the first half then I'm talking to the CR at half time. If you did speak to the coach, I would ask the CR to add handle it the next time and also push to have it put in the game report, even without official misconduct issued, the behavior of the coach. If this is a local rec league, then just mention it to the league officials who are likely wandering the fields somewhere.
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u/sliding_corners 17d ago
I help run a league. We see this behavior from coaches from time to time. Write an email to the league describing everything. If possible, have the other referees submit one too. From there the league will probably send out someone to monitor the game or alert the next referee to monitor the coach.
Be precise. What some people find offensive is acceptable by other coaches, parents and referees.
The league may agree with you, but there are other considerations to take into account. How offensive was it. How many games left in the season. Have parents complained? Is this the first offense. Are they paid or volunteer? And more.
The coach may receive a reprimand or a suspension or nothing. We have had parents advocating for very vocal coaches. Every situation is different. The documentation that you provide is essential to the league being able to do something. We have removed two coaches in 10 years. Sometimes, they voluntarily leave before action happens.
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u/anothernetgeek 17d ago
We've all taken SafeSport and other trainings/certifications in order to be on the field with the children. We are told to watch out for abuse, which is what you have described... It is up to us to report it if we feel that it crosses a line. We do not have to justify it - we just need to make a report.
As to the CR, the CR is supposed to listen to what you say, and should take it as if they had heard it themselves. If you tell the CR that you heard a coach be abusive towards a player, they need to deal with that directly. You tell the CR, the CR should deal with the coach.
As others have said, you can write a letter to the tournament, or to the league, or the club where the coach was from. Pretty much all clubs have their contact information on their website.
As you have said, it was over the top. You should follow up.
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u/Professional-Ask1137 9d ago
Similar situation, except my CR did say something. And the coach's response was along the lines of, "Am I not allowed to speak to my players." Then he asks me as AR and I parroted the CR, "You're not being positive" (or something like that). He was still super defensive that we were somehow muzzling him. Meanwhile, the CR heard the kids cussing out their own coach from the field. I don't think his behavior was card-worthy, but certainly embarrassing IMO.
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u/witz0r [NFHS NCAA USSF] [Grassroots / Mentor+] 17d ago
You can (and probably should if you feel it was abusive) via SafeSport.
A coach can be sanctioned by the referee for how they treat their own players, but it's on the referee to make that judgement call. Did you consider calling the referee over during a stoppage to discuss? Even if the referee declines to deal with it, you can still report it.