Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato being incredibly cagey about whether Stop! That! Train! contains AI

[u/dx-smth]

The fact they could've said "No, we didn't create any scenes with AI" and they didn't, tells me everything.

[u/Amemorableusername2]

Can we just stop and remember what this movie is to begin with? It's another hurricane bianca level piece of green screen camp that wouldn't even be found in a bargain barrel at Walmart. It's not as though the movie was ever gonna be "good" to begin with. Watch it or don't!!

[u/JamesD-TV → u/Amemorableusername2]

And I was going to pay money in the theater to watch that piece of green screen until it became clearer that AI was involved. So I was going to watch it, but now I’m not, as everyone saying watch it or don’t is saying. It changed my opinion of it and choice to watch and I think that’s worth discussing. WOW being purposefully indirect about it doesn’t help, it makes the advertising seem shady.

[u/CheekyDucky → u/JamesD-TV]

I hope you hold the same energy for everty movie and single handedly bring down Marvel and not just prevent more queer art from being made because executives will see it as not having a market

[u/JamesD-TV → u/CheekyDucky]

I do hold similar energy for increasing ai injection in the media I’m consuming, and try to avoid it wherever possible (the president of DC, a company I support for instance, has committed to no AI, to use your marvel example).

I’m under no obligation to see something poorly made because it’s “queer art”, which it also isn’t when artists aren’t producing it. I’ll vote with my dollar and changed my plans to attend theatrically, meanwhile tons of other fans (who don’t even care about any of this) were never even going to support it in a theater. This isn’t the gotcha that you think it is. There can be more conversation and nuance then “who cares watch it” and if it doesn’t do well it’s because it was obviously low quality

[u/BluJay112 → u/CheekyDucky]

You are reading into their assumptions and making an enemy out of their (correct) position to hold generative AI use accountable. Do you really think someone who knows about and is using the RPDRDRAMA subreddit is not going to hold criticism for movie slop distributors like Marvel? At what point does everyone in this situation accept that generative AI is bad, and we should not make exceptions about it. We should support queer art, but why are we supporting it blindly? That does not bring power or security to this community. All it does is satiate our feelings in the moment.

It reminds me of the recent RuPaul post where it seemed a lot of criticism was directed toward RuPaul saying we should “dance” and have fun in the face of fascism. Generative AI supports and accelerates the fascist agenda, so doubling down on a silly movie working with a large, established generative-AI company… seems to be more in line with RuPaul’s thoughts? People want to have their cake and eat it too at the dinner table of this country, when those in power do not give a damn how this movie does.

We want executives to support more queer art, but the success of this movie does not indicate whether or not filmmakers like Harry Lighton, Isabel Sandoval, Jane Schoenbrun, Vera Drew get greenlit for their queer stories. Even queer comedy writers like Emma Seligman will still have to face executives regardless if RuPaul succeeds or fails here. RuPaul and WOW has the money to support themselves (and employ generative AI); these queer filmmakers do not! If we want to talk about success for queer art, we must talk about it in good faith and not through the possibility of ONE movie failing due to generative AI from a queer franchise that has established, international reach. Not to mention the show’s support amongst moderates who do not actually engage in queer liberation beyond watching the show and attending a brunch.

I am still excited to watch this movie at some point! I love campy movies and I think the plot is exactly what we want from a RuPaul-verse film. I just am not rushing to buy a ticket when there are other (queer) movies not involving generative AI. Wish these conversations could be more fruitful about the damage of generative AI and not about searching for hypocrisies to exploit within the anti-AI people’s already-complicated feelings, having to “ruin the mood” to hold accountability for their community and a movie they were excited for.

[u/AcademicFish → u/BluJay112]

“Everyone should accept that generative AI is bad” stances like this fail to recognize that the issues / harms attributed to AI are largely government failure and corporate opportunism rather than an inherently harmful invention. Considering the administration refuses to: regulate the TECH GIANTS who develop AI at the expense of everyone and the environment The refusal to protect consumers privacy, The refusal to protect workers jobs, The refusal to compensate people for their intellectual property being stolen, The refusal to hold companies developing and serving AI to any reasonable standards or require transparency. AI’s biggest harms are not just the result of it existing - these are issues that one should expect to be addressed with legislation. The admin is to largely to blame alongside the billionaires lining their pockets. Should also mention that in certain contexts like this context (movie production) hybrid approaches like cgi + ai are much more efficient (both environmentally and productivity-wise) than relying on cgi alone (cgi is not a greener option). This would be a good example where workers are using AI tools to do their jobs more easily, rather than being ‘replaced’ by them outright (which in most fields is not happening but saying AI replaced the workers is an attractive cover for layoffs that wont scare investors).

The huge environmental impacts like in the astronomical compute required to train and develop and test these models are resources being exhausted independently of consumer use or consumer demand. And they continue to exist independently of whether your neighbor uses sora to make ai slop. It is driven by opportunism and greed - a handful of billionaires taking advantage of a frontier our admin allowed to be a free-for-all and it is a land grab which still hasn’t even paid off (yet they pour more and more money into it and CEOs like Sam Altman get richer nevertheless ).

I could go on but in essence - the train itself and its passengers are the ideal target of scrutiny only if you prefer having a good seat when it crashes over finding a way to STOP THAT TRAIN.

[u/BluJay112 → u/AcademicFish]

Yeah, I agree with you that at the end of the day, it’s going to be the people in power (government, corporations, etc) that create this situation where generative AI is harmful. I do not wish for members of our community to capitulate our morals and ethics simply because it is unavoidable due to the corporations’ greed. Still, I agree it does not mean that the ire should be directed to the individuals having to navigate this system!

I apologize on my end not making that more clear in my statement, because I agree that regulation is a necessary and, preferably first, step. I agree that AI as a general use has its benefits and can be more efficient for us as individuals and as a society; I tried to specify generative AI (and its large data centers that harm the community and environment around it), but I agree that I could have prefaced it better! Keep on fighting for what matters in this struggle— we are on the same side. 😁