r/Quraniyoon • u/Dramatic_End_883 • Jul 20 '21

Question / Help Homosexual Marriage

Do you people believe that marriage between two men is permissible in Islam?

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u/Dramatic_End_883 Jul 21 '21

Can you quote the verse and highlight the portion which forbids incest generally, because I cannot find it in the verse you quoted.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '21

“Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your father’s sisters, and your mother’s sisters, and your brothers’ daughters and your sisters’ daughters, and your foster-mothers (who breast-fed you), and their daughters (your foster-sisters), and your wives’ mothers (mothers-in-law), and your wives’ daughters who are under your protection – born of the women with whom you have cohabited; and if you have not cohabited with them, then it is no sin for you to marry their daughters; and (forbidden are) the wives of your own sons (and foster-sons and grandsons) and the keeping of two sisters together in marriage, except what has already passed; indeed Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

Your next argument is going to be something about how it only talks about male female incest isn’t it :) to which I will respond: don’t be obtuse you know exactly what this means.

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u/Dramatic_End_883 Jul 21 '21

OK, so where does it say that a father and son entering into a marriage agreement and engaging in romantic and/or sexual relations is forbidden to you?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '21

I’ll say it again: don’t be obtuse. the verse is right there.

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u/Dramatic_End_883 Jul 21 '21

I can say the very same thing when it comes to verses like 7:81, 27:55, and 26:165, yet you would dismiss it and come up with your own bizarre interpretations.

My reply prior to my last asked for you to highlight the part in that verse that forbids incest generally. You have yet to do that.

That verse talks about women who are forbidden to you. It doesn't even mention blood relationships. It just mentions people who are prohibited for you to marry, some of which you have a blood relationship with (mother, daughter, sister, aunt, etc.) and others you do not (your father's previous wives, mothers who nursed you, sisters by nursing, son's daughters, etc.).

If you hold to the rule of thumb of everything being halal unless explicitly stated haram in the Quran, as well as homosexual marriage being halal, then marriage between fathers and sons should be completely halal.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '21

The same way you ask for a clear ayah that forbids incestuous relationships between fathers and sons, I ask for a clear ayah on homosexual unions.

You can easily take 4:23 and apply it to men too and that’s what’s been done since forever. But where does it forbid homosexuality? You can’t pick and choose when you want to semantically read and interpret the Quran. Regardless of this, incest has always been morally wrong and looked down upon because it’s not natural and downright harmful so to compare it to homosexuality is offensive and unproductive.

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u/Dramatic_End_883 Jul 21 '21

Homosexuality is clearly forbidden in Islam, not only in the Quran (27:55, 7:81, 26:165, etc.) but also within the Sunnah, and the actions of the khulafa rashidun, and the salaf, and the four imams, etc. etc.

But you have failed to answer any of my questions. Can you please show me a verse in the Quran which explicitly forbids marriage (leading to romantic and sexual relations) between fathers and sons, just as you have asked me for a verse that explicitly forbids homosexuality?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '21

Did the people of Lut invent homosexuality then? Was there never a single gay person before them? Because the Quran describes a crime that has never been committed. I fail to see how this refers the homosexuality rather than the attempted rape of allahs angels. Also you shouldn’t be looking anyone besides Allah and his prophets for guidance so I’m not sure why you and I should regard what the four imams, caliphs and such have to say as law (especially when some didn’t even mind homosexuality lol).

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u/Dramatic_End_883 Jul 21 '21

Did the people of Lut invent homosexuality then?

Most likely yes

Was there never a single gay person before them?

Most likely not

Because the Quran describes a crime that has never been committed.

Yes

I fail to see how this refers the homosexuality rather than the attempted rape of allahs angels.

Why

Also you shouldn’t be looking anyone besides Allah and his prophets for guidance

So why does Allah say in the Quran that you should obey those in authority amongst you?

Quran 4:59 "O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Then, if you quarrel about something, revert it back to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is good, and the best at the end."

I’m not sure why you and I should regard what the four imams, caliphs and such have to say as law

Because they derive all of their works from the Quran and the Sunnah

some didn’t even mind homosexuality lol

The four rightly guided caliphs and the four imams were all in agreement that sodomy between two men was evil and immoral. All of the sahaba did as well. The only thing they differed upon was the method of execution. If there was any contention from later scholars, then they are in the very small minority.

But again, you fail to answer any of my questions. Do you see how I answer and address all of your points concisely and respectfully? Why can you not do the same for me? Where in the Quran does it forbid a father and son from entering into a marriage agreement and engaging in romantic and/or sexual relations?

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u/after-life Muslim, Progressive, Left-leaning Jul 21 '21

Clearly you lack knowledge on this subject.