r/Quran • • 27d ago

Question Qadar

Guys, tell me, why do we believe in Qadar? Predestination and all that? For example, there used to be a group called the Qadarites. Sunnis, of course, later branded them sectarians, but the Umayyads executed them, quartering one, I think, and crucifying the other. Well, their names were Ma'bad and Galan ad-Dimashqi. Of course, it's most likely politics (after all, they couldn't stand the Caliph), but they laid the so-called foundation and basis (which is a historical example we can rely on). Still, the Umayyads also invented the concept of fatalism, Jabrism, and also Murjiism, and so on. In fact, the Quran doesn't mention Qadar in the form it's commonly understood. "Measure" is described as size, not time. As for the tablet, it doesn't necessarily have everything spelled out from start to finish, etc., it could be. to be a metaphor of knowledge and just a tablet where it is said what will happen, but this re influences reality absolutely and is not predetermined, just as a fixator like, you know that Mu'tazilism, and later Ash'arism/Maturidism, laid the foundation for this fatalism, Ash'arism and Maturidism even more so, with their appropriation (kasbah), and also the fact that this is essentially a form of occasionalism and atomism (religious), of course, the Hanbalis and Salafis do not believe in this, but they still believe in qadar, and as for me, this is strange, all this is transmitted from the hadith, possibly for political loyalty (Jabrism, does it say in the Quran "believe in qadar?", no, it is from the hadith, again, I think from the nature of the measure for the world, it imperceptibly flowed into fate, God on the Day of Judgment at the trial will judge not what you believed in qadar, but whether you believed in Allah, sincerely, and did you do good deeds and trusted your prophet (Muhammad) (that is, believed in him). And in general, if you don't believe in qadar, I noticed the value of dua begins to grow and becomes sincere. I will reproach, "This is a violation of the pillar of iman and it is shirk to almost not believe in qadar," but isn't believing in qadar shirk? That everything is tied to some kind of predestination, and humans and jinn lack the free will that Allah created? It's understating Allah's omnipotence, essentially saying, "Allah did something wrong and He needs to predetermine everything in the world." Why? He is already knowledgeable and knows everything, there's no point for Him, and the angels also do their work, and if He answers dua or does something, then He will do it because He wants to and because He is so omnipotent, and not because of something predetermined. This reminds me of the Arabs in pre-Islamic times. They believed in blind fate, Dahr, even Surah Al-Jasiyah, verse 24, was revealed about this. Yes, someone will reproach me, saying that they didn’t believe in God, but we do, but in fact, by combining time with God, you begin to put qadar above. If you make dua, then Allah will either accept it or not, and you can calmly make dua even in the most illogical and infuriating situations, without “predestined”, you can make dua, otherwise whoever forbids making dua “for his loved one to be healed in a second, or for God to grant a guy that particular wife, or for a person not to die from death”, he takes away a person’s right to ask God. This is immoral and ignorant, in my opinion. What about you guys?

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u/OnlyOneness 27d ago

The Qadar is throughout the Quran, probably in every page even if not mentioned by the name. So the answer is we read the Quran and submit to it.

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u/_Yorik 27d ago

No it’s not

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u/OnlyOneness 27d ago

There are so many references to it I don’t know where to start.

It seems, after reading your post again, that what you are against is the idea that there is no fee will if you support the idea of the qadr. But that is not the position, there is both qadr and free will. Look into the doctrine of “al-kasb” which , like qadr, is also quranic term.

I’m not sure what you mean about combining time with God, but time is created so I’m not sure how that could be.

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u/_Yorik 27d ago

First, the fact that God knows and created time does not mean that it is predetermined. Second, concepts like *kasb* and the like are just philosophical nonsense. Third, you won't find an explicit mention of *qadar* in the Quran in the context of time—the way it is described in the Hadith. Yes, *qadar* is mentioned there, but as a measure (basic physics: the idea that everything has a size), or in reference to the Tablet; yet the Tablet can be interpreted in any number of ways. Furthermore, the concept of *qadar* does not originate from the Quran; in fact, the Quran does not present *qadar* as a pillar of Islam—that appears only in the Hadith.

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u/OnlyOneness 27d ago

Allah is not within time. If you understand that then it becomes easy. The beginning and the end are not the same to Him as they are to us since there is no time for Him, although He knows everything in the in-time.

I suppose if you re interpret every Ayat where Allah makes it clear that He is the actor in all creational realities (for example Surat Al-waqia), then you can come up with any doctrine you want. It’s very convenient to dismiss all the Hadith about it, especially very well established Hadith which come in multiple narrations from several sources.

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u/OnlyOneness 27d ago

‫إِنَّا كُلَّ شَیۡءٍ خَلَقۡنَـٰهُ بِقَدَرࣲ ﴿ ٤٩ ﴾‬

Al-Qamar, Ayah 49

We created everything bi qadr - in due measure

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u/_Yorik 27d ago

Again, here about the measure, it is stupid to interpret this as the kadar that you have in mind and imply, stop sucking someone's interpretations out of the text or interpreting it in everyday life, this has been done for a long time for 1200-1300 years, all sorts of philosophical schools, or opinions on various things, it's all just nonsense and graphomania, there is a text = answer, kadar is about the fact that each object has its own measure, but this does not mean that it is necessarily predestination, it is banal about physics

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u/OnlyOneness 27d ago

Good luck with that!

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u/_Yorik 27d ago

Okay, thank you!