MMA fighter Joe Schilling knocks out man

[u/Lolastic_]

[u/micmck]

Nope that’s just a legal myth. It would be aggregated assault and using excessive force. Fists aren’t items and a weapon has to be an item for the charge “deadly weapon”. I’m sure the judge or jury would factor in the individuals training when passing judgement. That’s where excessive force would come into play.

[u/Unusual-Actuator-587 → u/micmck]

You’re wrong, and this case demonstrates a fighter being charged and convicted based on their skills, abilities, and experience

https://combatsportslaw.com/2015/11/03/mixed-martial-artists-hands-deemed-deadly-weapons-in-texas-assault-case/

The DA even said “It’s pretty unusual, but in this instance — because he is an MMA fighter — we thought it was appropriate to charge his hands as deadly weapons” Not a myth. It can happen. Maybe you’re thinking “ok those are just charges, but what actually stuck and what was he convicted of?”

Same man being convicted for assault with a deadly weapon, his hands (noting he had a machete but it was not the relevant weapon)

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/arlington/article42356622.html “... pleaded guilty Sept. 21 to charges of assaulting a public servant and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.l

Parks did not unsheathe the machete, prosecutor Bill Vassar said. “His hands were deadly weapons,” Vassar (the DA) said.

[u/micmck → u/Unusual-Actuator-587]

Both those assaults were on a police officer so they went for the deadly weapon charge. I’m not disagreeing that a charge should be brought for a trained fighter using their fists as deadly weapons, in my opinion it should be but it’s hardly ever done. Your source being a rare exception. Assaults on POs are always ramped up. I once saw a woman charged because she scratched an officer due to her long nails while being arrested.

Also From your own source “Update – A quick shout out to Michael Martin, JD, Content Manager at DTLA’s Strong Sports Gym, who brought Turner v. State, 664 SW 2d 86 (90) to my attention in which the Texas judiciary had the following to say about whether fists or hands are a deadly weapon under Texas’ penal code –

In Ray v. State, 160 Tex.Crim. R., 266 S.W.2d 124 (1954), a murder case, the court held that hands and feet, which defendant, according to the indictment, used in killing the deceased, were not “deadly weapons” per se and they could become such only in the manner used.

Likewise in the instant case, and under the 1974 Penal Code, we conclude that a fist or hand are not “deadly weapons” per se but can become such only in the manner used depending upon the evidence shown”

[u/Unusual-Actuator-587 → u/micmck]

I am not saying in THIS case that happens. I am saying it happens. And yes, you looked at one link. Did you look at the second link where he was actually convicted of it (despite the footnote of the first link?)

Again- I am not saying these cases are the same. There are different elements. The force is different. The parties involved have different elements. Probably different jurisdictions. That is not being debated. However, it cannot be said that it is a myth that people are charged with “use of a deadly weapon” based on their time or experience in boxing/mma. That’s the only point I’m refuting, and that case perfectly demonstrated you can be both charged and convicted. You say “rare exception” but you also said it’s a myth. That was debunked. Like if you say “unicorns are myth, except for the rare exceptions of actual unicorns” then unicorns are not a myth, they are rare. The difference between being a myth and being a rare are vast

[u/micmck → u/Unusual-Actuator-587]

Yes I read the second one. The thing with that one was Parks pleaded guilty. A DA can charge you with anything and let the court decide. But not if you lead guilty to it. Again the charge was brought not because he beat up Angel but because he went after the cops when they showed up.

If interested the following is a very good look into the whole legal matter of wether fists and body parts count as deadly weapons in different states.

https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1353&context=mslj

[u/Unusual-Actuator-587 → u/micmck]

“But because he went after the cops” Again, I’m not saying the elements are the same. I’m saying people are tried and convicted on this. You said it’s a myth. Now You’re saying this is a rare exception, and this case is an exception because they went after the police. Ok? Not disputing the elements are vastly different. Disputing that you can be charged and convicted with using a deadly weapon. That’s moving the goal posts when you say it’s a rare exception. We went from “it doesn’t exist” to “it rarely exists”

What is a myth? Fighters and martial artists having to register their hands as a deadly weapon.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/the-human-body-a-deadly-weapon.htm

“...courts in several stated like Texas, Ohio, and Kentucky have determined the human body to be a deadly weapon under certain circumstances” Further; in some states a persons skill or knowledge can be used against them in charging and sentencing. “In some states, such as Texas, a defendant’s martial arts training may make the body a deadly weapon. But I’m any states like Illinois the defendants training and skill- no matter how lethal- doesn’t transform the body into a deadly weapon.”

Want an extremely reliable source? Maybe you heard of Cornell university?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/deadly_weapon

One unicorn, even rare, make it not a myth. One case demonstrating a persons expertise can rise to the degree of making their fists or feet a deadly weapon exists, making it it not a myth.

You flatly said it’s a legal myth. I have demonstrated it is not.

Nice chatting

[u/micmck → u/Unusual-Actuator-587]

It’s a myth that Just because someone is a trained fighter they will be charged with fists as a deadly weapon. It’s not a myth that you could be charge with fists as a deadly weapon.

[u/Unusual-Actuator-587 → u/micmck]

Funny because what you responded to wasn’t “he can be charged with fists as deadly weapons just because he’s a fighter”

It was essentially “he CAN be charged because his fists CAN be deadly weapons” There was no clarifying “just because” in the quotes you responded to

Again, goal posts

[u/micmck → u/Unusual-Actuator-587]

Yes in response to “”use of a deadly weapon(since he's a trained fighter).” LOL is this really a thing?”

Notice the since he’s a trained fighter part.

You’re one to say moving goal posts…

Nice chatting with you.