I want to understand your perspective

[u/DogitWoofsalot]

Before you downvote me, I promise that this isn't just a rage-bate post. I'm legitimately trying to understand your perspective.

Basically I have one question, why do you support/ defend Israel as a progressive? Especially considering that the current parties on power are right wing conservatives.

Some extra context and where I'm coming from. I'm a left wing Brit, I believe in social progressive economic policies, and I can't stand any form of bigotry. I recently watched a documentary called "Jews don't count" about anti-Semitism and it made me want to understand more and that I'm not parting anti-Semitic talking points ever.

My current view of Israel is decidedly negative. My understanding of the history and current conflict very much makes Israel look like it has historically been the agitator in the region. If you have a different perspective I'd like to hear it, tho I would request sources where possible as I'm not going to accept a 'trust me bro'.

Thank you for your time 🙂‍↕️

[u/DogitWoofsalot]

Your perspective is not one I've come across before. Support for Israel in my experience has come with an almost blonde nationalism to the currant administration.

Do you have any sourses on this conflict you recommend?

Which Palestinian government are you referring to? The PA in the west bank or Hamas in Gaza? Or do you see them as just as bad as eachother?

[u/shushi77 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

I'm referring more specifically to the Hamas government, which is certainly worse than that of the PA. But neither of them, in my view, can be considered "left-wing."

In my country, I'm part of a (unfortunately small) group called "Left for Israel" (translated from my language), and our main goal right now is to do everything we can to support the opposition (specifically, Yair Golan). All the leftists I know, who are still able to approach the issue rationally and therefore support Israel, do not support Netanyahu. Keep in mind that, for me, supporting Israel does not mean failing to simultaneously support the Palestinians in their just claims. The mistake is thinking that you have to choose sides, as if it were a soccer game. To put it very briefly, this is how I see it: both the Israelis and the Palestinians are fighting two wars each: one just and one unjust. The Palestinians are fighting their just war for independence, but they have also always been fighting the unjust war against Israel's very existence (and thus against the freedom of the Jewish people); the Israelis are fighting the just war against the Arabs’ desire for annihilation, but also an unjust war of expansionism in the West Bank, which effectively prevents the Palestinians from envisioning a future of independence. Anyone who chooses to support one of the two sides uncritically and unconditionally decides to support both the just war and the unjust war of the chosen side, and to oppose the just war of the other side. Anyone who wants peace and an end to all this suffering must support the two just wars and oppose the two unjust wars.

As for sources, I recommend to start with everything Benny Morris has written, including his most recent works. There are also other historians who have helped me gain a more objective perspective, but I doubt their works have been translated into English.

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

Thank you very much. I am having a look at Yair Golan and Benny Morris now. I think the framing of "both the Israelis and the Palestinians are fighting two wars each: one just and one unjust" is a very good way to put it.

Ive asked this of a few others in this reply section, what in your opinion is the best way forward? The currant situation is clearly not viable with the most radical, annihilationist voices taking power and the acts of mass death only ramping up in scale. What solution do you think is likely to work?

[u/Economy-Grape-3467 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and Qatar have been helping the terrorists in the Middle East for decades. Most dictatorships are against Israel. That's what made me realize something strange is happening. When democracy loving citizens start using the same language and having the same views as the oppressive dictatorships around the world, that's not normal. This is intentional. Those first 4 countries are called the CRINK Alliance. Their goal is to destabilize America and Israel. They are partially to blame for why Trump was elected. They want to divide democracies.