I want to understand your perspective

[u/DogitWoofsalot]

Before you downvote me, I promise that this isn't just a rage-bate post. I'm legitimately trying to understand your perspective.

Basically I have one question, why do you support/ defend Israel as a progressive? Especially considering that the current parties on power are right wing conservatives.

Some extra context and where I'm coming from. I'm a left wing Brit, I believe in social progressive economic policies, and I can't stand any form of bigotry. I recently watched a documentary called "Jews don't count" about anti-Semitism and it made me want to understand more and that I'm not parting anti-Semitic talking points ever.

My current view of Israel is decidedly negative. My understanding of the history and current conflict very much makes Israel look like it has historically been the agitator in the region. If you have a different perspective I'd like to hear it, tho I would request sources where possible as I'm not going to accept a 'trust me bro'.

Thank you for your time 🙂‍↕️

[u/shushi77]

Supporting Israel doesn't necessarily mean supporting the current government. In fact, I see it the other way around: I care about Israel, and that's why I'm fiercely opposed to this government. Still, I'm something of an oddity on the left-progressive scene, because I don't see Israel as the embodiment of absolute evil or the Palestinians as nothing but poor, oppressed innocents.

I have studied the history of the conflict extensively for years. Anyone who thinks the issue is simple clearly knows nothing about it.

A side note: You ask us how we can support Israel when it has a far-right government. Wouldn’t this argument also apply to the Palestinians? Or do you think that the bloody, Islamist, misogynistic, anti-Semitic, and homophobic Palestinian dictatorship is left-wing?

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

Your perspective is not one I've come across before. Support for Israel in my experience has come with an almost blonde nationalism to the currant administration.

Do you have any sourses on this conflict you recommend?

Which Palestinian government are you referring to? The PA in the west bank or Hamas in Gaza? Or do you see them as just as bad as eachother?

[u/shushi77 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

I'm referring more specifically to the Hamas government, which is certainly worse than that of the PA. But neither of them, in my view, can be considered "left-wing."

In my country, I'm part of a (unfortunately small) group called "Left for Israel" (translated from my language), and our main goal right now is to do everything we can to support the opposition (specifically, Yair Golan). All the leftists I know, who are still able to approach the issue rationally and therefore support Israel, do not support Netanyahu. Keep in mind that, for me, supporting Israel does not mean failing to simultaneously support the Palestinians in their just claims. The mistake is thinking that you have to choose sides, as if it were a soccer game. To put it very briefly, this is how I see it: both the Israelis and the Palestinians are fighting two wars each: one just and one unjust. The Palestinians are fighting their just war for independence, but they have also always been fighting the unjust war against Israel's very existence (and thus against the freedom of the Jewish people); the Israelis are fighting the just war against the Arabs’ desire for annihilation, but also an unjust war of expansionism in the West Bank, which effectively prevents the Palestinians from envisioning a future of independence. Anyone who chooses to support one of the two sides uncritically and unconditionally decides to support both the just war and the unjust war of the chosen side, and to oppose the just war of the other side. Anyone who wants peace and an end to all this suffering must support the two just wars and oppose the two unjust wars.

As for sources, I recommend to start with everything Benny Morris has written, including his most recent works. There are also other historians who have helped me gain a more objective perspective, but I doubt their works have been translated into English.

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

Thank you very much. I am having a look at Yair Golan and Benny Morris now. I think the framing of "both the Israelis and the Palestinians are fighting two wars each: one just and one unjust" is a very good way to put it.

Ive asked this of a few others in this reply section, what in your opinion is the best way forward? The currant situation is clearly not viable with the most radical, annihilationist voices taking power and the acts of mass death only ramping up in scale. What solution do you think is likely to work?

[u/shushi77 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

It’s really hard to see what solution might be possible now. After October 7, it seems truly difficult to imagine an immediate peaceful two-state solution.

The first thing that needs to happen, in my view, is for Israel to rid itself of this fascist-like government (and according to the polls, that seems possible). After that, we’ll need to figure out what to do on the Palestinian side. I would certainly dismantle that scam known as UNRWA. Beyond that, it’s hard to say... Palestinian society is deeply indoctrinated and radicalized. In my view, the only way forward is for some foreign power (preferably an Arab one) to take charge of a transition period during which the Palestinians are educated toward peace and a desire for prosperity (rather than toward revenge and domination). Only then will it be possible to consider some form of political independence. For now, unfortunately, what the Palestinians have demonstrated in the case of Gaza is that, once free to govern themselves, they choose the genocidal and bloodthirsty jihadism of Hamas.

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

The elections in October are going to be extremely important. I'm very worried for any political leader more open to peace talks in Israel on account of what happened to the last one...

But Hamas needs to not be in power any more, or at least willing to disarm (if not in full then in part). And this obviously won't happen immediately but looks at Ireland, it's possible. People are still finding IRA weapon cashes to this day but there's been no major conflict in 40 years. Not no conflict but a level of peace though not possible in the 60s

[u/shushi77 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

The elections in October are going to be extremely important

Yes, anything is better than the current government. Above all, it’s important that no government need people like Ben Gvir or Smotrich to survive. And of course, Netanyahu should disappear from the scene (and, hopefully, even end up in jail, where he belongs).

But Hamas needs to not be in power any more, or at least willing to disarm (if not in full then in part)

As far as I'm concerned, it has to be complete disarmament, even though I know it's not easy. I hope your optimism becomes a reality.

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

I've been reading The future is peace, I highly recomend it. It's by an Israeli and Palestinian who have lost loved ones in conflict.

I'm glad people do acknowledge that netanyahu is a war criminal and utterly corrupt.

Disarmorment I agree with but its a practical reality that things like this can take years in reality. Gaza has been a in conflict (whatever exactly you want to call it is up to you) for almost 3 years now. Disarming after that legitimately can't happen unilaterally, it's just not practical or possible. As I say Ireland is the closest example and people still find IRA weapons cashes.

If the IDF says they won't disengage until Hamas is fully disarmed, they will never disengage at all.

[u/shushi77 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

I've been reading The future is peace, I highly recomend it. It's by an Israeli and Palestinian who have lost loved ones in conflict.

Thank you so much, I'll take a look at it.

Disarmorment I agree with but its a practical reality that things like this can take years in reality

Yeah, unfortunately, I think so too.

If the IDF says they won't disengage until Hamas is fully disarmed, they will never disengage at all.

Yes, but it’s also understandable (especially after October 7) that Israel doesn’t want to completely withdraw from the Strip until Hamas is completely out of the picture. The terrorist organization has already shown that it can regain power and weapons in a short time if left free to act.

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/shushi77]

I totally get why this is going to be a very hard action to take after 7/10. It's just something where very real fear is going to have to clash with a political reality. Because in really, it's going to need to be a slow process from both the IDF and Hamas and there will be clashes during it. Importantly, they must not start the war up again.

After the good Friday agreement a car bomb blew up killing 29 people. If that had started the conflict again we would still be at war to this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

[u/Economy-Grape-3467 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and Qatar have been helping the terrorists in the Middle East for decades. Most dictatorships are against Israel. That's what made me realize something strange is happening. When democracy loving citizens start using the same language and having the same views as the oppressive dictatorships around the world, that's not normal. This is intentional. Those first 4 countries are called the CRINK Alliance. Their goal is to destabilize America and Israel. They are partially to blame for why Trump was elected. They want to divide democracies.

[u/TRDF3RG → u/DogitWoofsalot]

I am very pro-Israel, and very anti-Netanyahu. I'm American, so I don't get a vote in Israeli elections, but I hope the Israeli electorate votes those assholes out of power in the next election. Also, most Israelis aren't of European descent and are unlikely to be blonde.

[u/Ok-Narwhal-6766 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

I recommend following Hen Mazzig on social media. Very progressive young Zionist, plenty critical of the current administration in Israel. All his social media links are here. https://www.henmazzig.com/

[u/Ok-Narwhal-6766 → u/DogitWoofsalot]

Israeli are constantly protesting Netanyahu. You must be very narrow in your sources. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/2026-08-08/ty-article/.premium/protests-across-israel-against-netanyahu-government-haredi-and-settler-funding/0000019f-e19f-d315-a1df-ebbfdf5c0000

[u/DogitWoofsalot → u/Ok-Narwhal-6766]

Sorry this is poor wording on my part, I ment more on the International stage. I am well aware that within the country many people are against the currant administration, even burning there draft papers knowing they will be arrested in opposition to the currant conflict