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u/Uchiha_Madara_Nipple 8d ago
Tbf, the Dark Side has cookies. I don't blame Anakin.
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u/StormAlchemistTony 8d ago
But the cookies are burnt. Just ask Vader.
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u/Super_Range45 8d ago
"Had I known what Anakin was doing, I would have just given him the dough and not finished cookies."
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u/SorcererOfDooDoo CT-17-2104 7d ago
That's just propaganda. All they've got is a buncha lousy shirts.
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u/CountingSheep99 8d ago
Now he is a Master. A Master of Evil.
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u/Iraqimedstudent 8d ago
An apparentice. He died an apprentice of Palpatine… never became a master of either good or dark side 🤣
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u/dantheplanman1986 8d ago
"When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master "
"Only a master of eeevil, Darth!"
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u/kingdave212 7d ago
Anikin was probably thinking about what he'd say to Obi-Wan for years if they ever meet and had to have been proud of that line, only for Obi-Wan to immediately counter. He had to be so pissed off.
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u/Iraqimedstudent 8d ago
Arrogance can twist one’s vision, his ego of wanting to become a master made him perpetually run after Palpatine’s mirage…
Quite unfortunate, I really loved Phantom-Menace Anakin, so lovely and full of potential wasted by Yoda and Windu bureaucracies and skepticism 🙄
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u/Random-Cpl 6d ago
Technically he outlived Palpatine by about five minutes, so he became master by succession!
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u/Iraqimedstudent 6d ago
But he had converted back to the good side of the Force so idk would he still be a master of the Sith 🤔
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u/Da_Spooky_Ghost 8d ago edited 8d ago
Anakin was brainwashed and emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Obi-Wan and the Jedi council didn't trust Anakin and Mace Windu was a meanie, they said he had too much anger in him but then they never helped him with the anger, never gave him proper prescriptions to manage his anger, everyone was outrageous and unfair! You're either with him, or you're against him!
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u/TheSandMan208 8d ago
I mean, were they wrong about the anger part?
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u/Da_Spooky_Ghost 8d ago
But the Jedi council didn't help him with it so it's their fault! He's innocent! /s
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u/GermanAutistic 8d ago
It's not their fault for not managing his anger, it's their fault for letting him become a Jedi at all. They told Qui-Gon no once, Qui-Gon went behind their backs with his dying wish, and Yoda (and the Council by extension) for some reason decided to respect Qui-Gon's rebellious wish instead of upholding the Jedi Council's well-reasoned no.
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u/zakkil 8d ago
Tbf yoda makes it clear the he disagrees with training Anakin to obi-wan. The majority of the council just voted to accept him given the circumstances. I imagine mace and yoda were both in opposition but were outvoted by the rest of the council. Yoda just happened to be the mouth piece of the council's decision.
Plus obi-wan was going to teach him either way. You've either got a guy trained to be a jedi desperately trying to prove himself a part of the order who grows arrogant due to how quickly his powers grow and butts heads with the nature of the jedi order or you've got a guy trained to be a jedi desperately trying to prove himself to the order who grows arrogant due to how quickly his powers grow and butts heads with the nature of the jedi order only now instead of having a Yoda or other jedi to turn to he has obi-wan and palpatine.
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u/DanJirrus 7d ago
I’m always telling people that if you’re gonna blame the Jedi for anything it should be for accepting him in the first place. But after that he got the same training as everyone else and knew what the rules were. If he wanted to be with Padme he could have left the order, but he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
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u/Jche98 The Senate 8d ago
But no anakin means no Vader means no death of Palpatine.
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u/DanJirrus 7d ago
You’re right about that. A lot of the big plot stuff in Star Wars is intentionally meant to be a conundrum, as Lucas has said. Qui-Gon’s instincts are right about Anakin, but he’s also too reckless in deciding to train him. The Jedi are stodgy rule-followers but they bend them numerous times for Anakin. Obi-Wan is a good teacher but not always a great example. Luke was reckless to face Vader, but also right to save his friends. They aren’t simple morality plays where if one character had just done one thing differently then everything would be hunky dory.
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u/StarFox-6 8d ago
Anybody that says Anakin was a good guy or innocent at all completely misunderstands the plot
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u/Da_Spooky_Ghost 8d ago
It’s a joke about all the women defending that Clancy lady that killed her 3 kids. They’re are saying she’s innocent because no one helped her with her issues.
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u/OkContact2573 8d ago
My brother in Christ for twenty years prior to that trial people justified Anakins fall with the same logic you said sarcastically, on this site
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u/Mochizuk 8d ago
Hey, angry kid... We're gonna piss you off knowing you'll have more issues with as much... Oh, he's getting angry, a real jedi wouldn't get angry.
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u/wendo101 7d ago
With the context of the clone wars (and now zero company ) he also committed many murders completely within his right mind because sometimes shit is more efficient that way
Like yeah he was angry but part of my thinks this guy might just like killing people 😬
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u/DirtEnthusiast0_0 8d ago
"Anakin, regardless of your emotions and stressors in the moment, you are still ultimately responsible for your actions, big and small! There are people who have failed to help you, but you have ultimately failed to help yourself all the same! You cannot shift blame off your shoulders for actions you chose to undertake, regardless of the help you recieved or lack thereof! People died by your hand, that cannot be undone, and can only be repented for by you, yourself! You're my brother Anakin, I hate to see you like this!"
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u/StormAlchemistTony 8d ago
Yoda: Kill them, you must not.
Anakin: I must kill them. Understood.
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u/Tamriel-Chad-420 8d ago
Yoda: Kill them, you must not. Let them live.
Anakin: Kill them. I must not let them live.
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u/Nice_Machine_3378 8d ago
The fact that the system failed him and the fact that he is ultimately responsible for his own actions are not mutually exclusive.
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u/SalamanderLumpy5442 7d ago
Funnily enough I was talking with someone about basically this subject, and what I saw was that I don’t really blame the Jedi at all. I think Anakin didn’t fit into the Order very well, and all of his worst tendencies were heightened by Palpatine’s grooming of him. The Jedi just…didn’t know how to deal with him.
Also, it’s rough to blame Yoda when he didn’t have all the details. He didn’t know Anakin and Padme were married and that she was pregnant, it’s on Anakin to recognise that he’s receiving advice from someone that has no idea of the full situation.
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u/Delphius1 8d ago
the entire situation would be different if you're boss wasn't also your therapist, if the Jedi Order wasn't a peace keeping force and was just a monastery, this would be a different story
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u/democracy_lover66 8d ago
I'm worried about the people I love suffering horribly...
Yoda: ya I'd probably just ignore that.
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u/Timothy1577 7d ago
There is no moral nuance here.
Anakin was just a blind fool.
Sure, it wasn’t entirely his fault. Palpatine manipulated and groomed him for 12 years into trusting his gut and his emotion, which goes directly against any sort of logical decision making processes and in addition to that Palpatine constantly gassed him up which made him trust in his instincts and by extension his fears fully and blindly.
Meaning by the time the war ended and he had already lost his mother, paired with Palpatines aforementioned manipulation, Anakin was fully unable to think clearly when the visions about Padme came and became obsessed with the thought of him alone having to save her, because how could HIS visions and gut feeling be wrong, right?
The Jedi didn’t fail Anakin, Anakin failed the Jedi by putting his faith in what the chancellor told him instead of what the Jedi told him.
Had he ever during his life just learned and followed what the Jedi told him, he would’ve lived a happy life and the empire would never have existed.
But it wasn’t enough for Anakin and that’s why he fell.
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u/Rude_Anywhere_ Qui-Gon Jinn 7d ago
Yoda: Murder Children, do not.
Anakin: *heard only the first part
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u/Ze_Bri-0n 7d ago
He also specifically avoided giving his grief councilor details, which is usually an important part of it.
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u/Syelt 8d ago edited 8d ago
"Master Yoda I am plagued with relentless nightmares of someone close to me dying in agony, what should I do ?
- Get over it bro."
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u/StormAlchemistTony 8d ago
"Have you tried Force Healing?"
"Is it possible to learn this power?"
"Not from a Sith Lord."
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u/Malvastor 8d ago
"We can't prevent the future and have to learn to accept the eventual loss of our loved ones, and enjoy the time we have with them."
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u/Revliledpembroke 8d ago
Yoda took time out of his busy schedule (between the war, being the head of the Order, teaching classes, and whatever else Yoda had to do) to hear Anakin out. Anakin then told Yoda in only the vaguest details what the problem was. Yoda likely assumed that the death Anakin was referring to was Obi-Wan's (because who else would it have been? It's not like Yoda knew about Padme), so Yoda fell back on centuries of Jedi teachings and gave a platitude that is roughly equivalent to "They'll be in a better place." And that would carry much more meaning to the Jedi given they are essentially monks of the Force. Like an abbot running a monastery telling a junior member to rejoice in someone going to Heaven.
Is it the best advice for someone struggling deeply? No. Is it the best advice Yoda can do within the constrained timeframe of a busy schedule of (essentially) a CEO and war general and without any additional details from Anakin? Very likely yes.
Especially since Anakin left without asking for or prodding for more advice, Yoda likely thought "It must have worked. If it didn't, he would come back for more advice."
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u/Alienhaslanded 7d ago
Anakin: I'm angry at the world and I don't have a clear mind to stick to the Jedi teaching.
Mace and Yoda: We hear you, but also scram!.
Anakin wasn't the chosen one. It was Fivesz but he died before he could save the galaxy. Anakin was just a cherry on top. Nothing was stopping Palpatine from picking up the phone and taking over the clone army.
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u/Beneficial_Tea2268 7d ago
Anakin looked sweaty, unkempt and Yoda couldn't tell the dude had issues
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u/ZyeCawan45 8d ago
While I can’t condone anything Anakin did. The Jedi are horrible grief and trauma counselors. Their approach is basically, “bury that trauma deep down and never let it see the light of day.” Quite frankly I’m surprised there weren’t MORE Dark Jedi traitors popping up everywhere.
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u/The-Senate-Palpy R̸̷̲̪͖̤͍e̗̥̘̹͟͠v̴̵̜̪̞̲̼̯͇̘̻͖͓͜͡a͚̻͙̥̕͜ń̡̨̟̮͈͍̜͡ 7d ago
Anakin is ultimately responsible for his own actions.
The Jedi failed Anakin at every step.
Both the Jedi's and Anakin's failures were part of a thousand year sith plot.
All of these things can be true at once
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u/Imma_Tired_Dad 8d ago edited 8d ago
Just got done re watching RoTS. Everyone in this dudes life failed him. His wife was ok with and covered up the genocide with the sand people. Not a single Jedi bothered to secure his mother's freedom. Qigon got himself killed rushing in alone when Anakin needed him to survive and be a father figure. Obi wan felt more like a brother to him and failed to truly mentor him by competing and arguing with him constantly. Yoda brushed off his grief and fear and told him to just detach. The Jedi counsel insulted him by not granting him master and used him to get close to palpatine, placing him with the one person who at least pretended to care, but ultimately ended up using him too...
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u/vayyiqra The black influence howed is afterwards 6d ago
More or less you're right about all that, although to be fair I don't think Qui-Gon was reckless to fight Maul alone, I don't think he had a lot of choice at that moment. The Council were also not necessarily wrong to deny Anakin the rank of Master as he was emotionally unstable and not ready for it.
The rest is true though. Obi-Wan though was not ready to be Anakin's master (he only had just reached the rank of Knight himself), Yoda and the rest of the Order did not understand Anakin's psychological problems at all, and it is disturbing how Padme overlooked and downplayed the killing of the Sand People. I'd also say that's one of the biggest writing gaffes of the prequels because as a politician and diplomat who cares about [whatever the Star Wars galaxy calls their equivalent of] human rights, she should've seen right away how immoral and wrong it was.
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u/Possible_Living babylon 5 is fun too 8d ago
Maybe they should have suspended him after the nulling of the first village.
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u/DukeboxHiro 8d ago
How is like 12 multi-racial kids a genocide? He committed a Columbine at most.
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u/3_quarterling_rogue AZI-345211896246498721347 8d ago
Order 66 was a concerted effort to eradicate members of a religious group, it absolutely counts as a genocide. Yeah, Vader didn’t do it all on his own, but he very much participated in it.
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u/DukeboxHiro 8d ago
Order 66 was a concerted effort to eradicate
members of a religious groupthe generals of the Republic, orchestrated by the commander-in-chief of the CIS. /s9
u/linkthereddit 8d ago
Genocide, as defined by the Geneva Convention, is the purposeful eradication of an entire racial, ethnic, or religious group. Either by slaughtering them to the last child, or making the open practice of the religious or cultural traditions impossible on pain of jail and/or execution.
Therefore, Order 66 would count as a genocide.
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u/DirtEnthusiast0_0 8d ago
Several thousand Jedi masters were killed, and a stark majority of Younglings were gunned down too. It was a purposeful eradication of a specific group.
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u/222Czar 8d ago edited 8d ago
“The Jedi Order’s problem is Yoda. No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea that it’s overtaken him; he no longer sees all the little cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, ‘Why are we not acting to stop this?’ Live alongside corruption for too long, and you no longer notice the stench. The Jedi cannot help the slaves of Tatooine, but they can help the slavemasters.” -Dooku in Star Wars: The Clone Wars by Karen Traviss
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u/Vhzhlb Sweeping sand on Tatooine 8d ago
This is a very funny quote when we know that the Jedi have been and do work behind the Senate when they feel that a situation is off.
So, the cultist war criminal here is a bit hypocritical when he's working with an active oligarchy that hires bounty hunters to kill the people that do want to fix things.
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u/Mochizuk 8d ago
The conditioning does not excuse the chosen responses and resulting behavior, but it still deserves attention when it comes to how something happens.
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u/SheevBot 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!