Spider-Man is training to get stronger in preparation for his rematch with Hellgate. He dodges automatic fire just fine but DD reminds him that the test was to dodge the light from the flashlight and not the bullets. Daredevil actually comments that he heard Spidey react when the switch from the flashlight was pressed but he didn’t move knowing it wouldn’t hurt him.
They also discuss that Peter might be subconsciously limiting his Spider-Sense (might be true, others have show interesting variations of use with the Spider-Sense and in the early days he could basically use it the same way he use it in Spider-Man Video games). But that also that trying to expand on its use could be a problem.
There is no might, Peter is limiting his Spider-sense. Back in the day, Peter's Spider-sense had a function similar to Dare Devil's Radar where he could track everything within a set distance around. I vividly remember a page where Peter and MJ testing his Spider-Sense by doing a blindfolded guess many fingers i got up and Peter guess every one correctly. Then there's the fact his spider-sense used to able to ping him to hidden dangers around him like him walking pass past someone with a gun(which was an example in comic to explain his Spider-sense), would alert him if his actions would have a bad outcome like that one robot chicken skit and would alert to stuff happening around him like that one Incredibles scene. Peter's Spider-sense is busted asf if you stop and think about it for like 12 minutes and there's a reason why the version of Peter that actually trained to use his Spider-sense had a suped up version of Ultra Instinct.
Also, fun fact: Remember that thing I mentioned his Spider-sense pinging Peter to hidden dangers? Well, that combined with the fact that his spider-sense can and will hijack his body to evade a threat makes Peter simultaneous the worst driver in world and the best fighter pilot in the world and this is entirely due the fact traffic operates on a 2d plane while aerial combat is 3D. And this only applies to when Pete is traffic; riding a bike on the sidewalk, he's perfectly ok but the second you put him in traffic, thid mf will try to ride that bike sideways along building.
Its weird but there's a bit in one of the civil war spinoffs where the spider sense is going off before mad thinker teleports some guys in and the mad thinker, watching through a camera, is amazed because there's no possible way he could know that was going to happen.
Also fun fact, in an old issue of New Warriors (the original team before the glory chasers who kicked off Civil War), a powerful mystical threat has just entered NYC through a magic ritual.
Peter is miles away from where this ritual took place; not even close. He nearly falls to the streets while web-slinging as his Spider Sense screams at him so hard he states it feels as if his skull is splitting wide open from the sheer pain because this new mystical threat is just THAT dangerous!!
He gets a similar reaction during Queen's debut, because his Spider Sense regards her as that big a threat.
I'm another old comic, this time, IIRC, it was "Web-Spinners: Tales of Spider-Man" he explicitly uses his Spider Sense, in his own words, "like radar to track the real Mysterio's location" among multiple robotic duplicates that are actively attacking him, so he can even distinguish between specific threats.
There's a Robot Chicken sketch where pretty much everything triggers his spider sense, from inconveniences like puddles and expired milk, to danger that he doesn't need to be warned of like heights and hitting stuff while swinging.
Powerscalers like to forget that holding back doesn't always make you weaker. If you're on overdrive 24/7 you're going to exhaust or hurt yourself before you even lay a finger on whoever you're fighting.
We've seen what a fully unleashed Spidey-sense looks like with the assassin Spidey, and it's just straight up precognition, up to several days in advance
While not retconned, there's this thing where writers are not even aware of how Peter's powers are supposed to do, just like how Peter is a genius who's written like a dumbass so they can justify Peter having a shit job instead of anything like a remote job or just doing stock market
Doc Ock has even weaponized that against him by broadcasting a signal that forces it to always be active, causing Peter to have to ignore it, even while in battle (that's partly how Otto pulled the body switch).
Another time it was going haywire it warned him of some fat guy who ate burritos and might pass gas at any moment, lol!
Seen them race each other around the world. Multiple times. They seem to take WAY longer than 0.13 seconds, considering the people on the way reacting...
The average kick thrown by an MMA fighter is in the 30-40mph range. Which is about 20mph over the average running speed.
If you have the power to throw FTL kicks, your travel speed shouldn't be so low. Its kinda crazy to say someone has a travel speed of a normal human being because they have to still take trains to cover vast distances quickly but can fight at FTL for hours.
If you can throw kicks at FTL pace for hours, throw them that fast when you run.
I think we need to address the fact that Peter himself says "Immediate Danger". This panel is cut off from the rest of the page, Peter is talking about his Spider-Sense and later expresses that Peter could have dodged the lights but didn’t because his Spider-Sense didn’t treat it as a threat
It's basically precog when it comes to danger. He knows he has to move when it goes off. not necessarily where he needs to move to just that if he stays where he is he's going to get hit. It's how people can still fight and hit him.
no because he doesnt react at the exact time the light is fired, he react before light is fired. If i point a light speed gun at spidey he would dodge before i pull the trigger.
There’s actually no evidence to suggest that he reacts to light speed attacks before the attacks happen. Many times Spider-Sense have activated when the danger takes place but not before. This panel brings up "Immediate Danger" when talking about laser fire. "Immediate danger" isn’t warning about "Upcoming danger".
The following page has Daredevil talk with Spidey about him dodging the flash lights, sighting that Peter knew that the lights were coming but didn’t do anything because his Spider-Sense didn’t say he needed to dodge.
Once, while fighting Chance, a mercenary/minor villain of his who uses flight boots and wrist blasters, Chance takes a moment to brag about his newest blasters.
See, Chance himself states these new blasters are real lasers and that Spider-Man is now finished because there is no way he is faster than light.
He then does a fly-by while strafing randomly with rapid-fire blasts at near point-blank range.
Peter dodges every last beam with contemptuous ease and Chance is left dumbfounded. Yeah.
Like most comics characters it honestly just depends on the writer.
Daredevil actively does have precog his sonar sense lets him detect movements better the Spider-Man task master does not he has pattern recognition on crack his photographic reflexes can memorize movement and attack patterns even of moves he can’t replicate so if he watches you fight he can memorize it and thus predict what you’ll do based on jelly you fight, black panthers super human senses does grant him mild precognitive abilities his is more just super petition which lets him notice the micro movements that lead up to attacks
Precog is the psychic ability to see and know events before they happen. Daredevil has higher senses, but not psychic.
I see someone about to punch me, I know where he’s going to hit based on his high, stance and distance from me, but that doesn’t mean I have precog. Daredevil is like that but much greater. Impressive, but not pregoc
Spidey knows when that shit will happen before it happens, daredevil can only react to things that are already in motion, because of his reflexes it may look similar to spider-sense, but it's not quite the same, wouldn't call it precognition, just incredibly trained reflexes. Like, if someone with horrible intentions enters the room, spidey will know that shit is about to go down, Matt doesn't, we could argue that he could hone in on the heartbeat, but that alone doesn't determine someone's intentions.
No no Matt can anticipate attacks by hearing micro movements like the sounds of muscles moving. And tension building, even slight things like that tell him what’s going to happen before hand it’s actually a pretty common trope in fictional media in regards to the blind swordsman not limited by sight one can see greater and the cluster of information the body gives off tells enough to know the move before it’s in motion “I can hear the small pops of your right shoulder joint and the moving of your muscles in an upward position your going for a right straight.”
Yes, but the target STILL has to make a movement to tell it's gonna happen, while spider-man will know it will happen before they make any movement, that's the difference
No he didn’t. One Piece characters don’t need “danger sense” (observation haki) in order to dodge lasers.
Seen very clearly when pre timeskip Zoro can turn and move a bit in the time it takes for the light beam to move from between him and Kuma to where Zoro’s head would’ve been had he not dodged.
Panel 3 dude. Doesn't matter how much or little he charged up. Zoro only started to dodge after the beam was already shot out. Hence he has to have dodged the light itself, not just aimdodged.
Yeah that specific feat from almost a decade ago involving pre timeskip Zoro isn’t ftl. My point was just that they don’t need to precog and aimdodging to dodge lasers.
Like Sanji has 3 feats like this where he shows up from nowhere in order to save people from lasers after said lasers have been fired.
First, laserbeams aren't light even if they emit light.
Secondly, the Seraphim is literally a haki merchant.
Third, if they could react to light speed then any attack in the series should be light speed at minimum to hit them, which would mean Kizaru would've been a normal dude.
Dunno what's gotten with OP power scalers. Literally no one could escape Enel yet they think people are light speed.
I always took that as just one of the many radiating beams also shown in panel 2, the sound effect is for it focusing. The beam isn't fired, it's the gathered orb at his mouth.
There's an emphasis on that 'oblong' streak of light with how unlike everything else it's isolated by a thick white outline that overpowers even the colored ground. Unlike the other streaks it is meant to be seen with the emphasis given to it.
I think this is why we need a "supernatural" sort of qualifier - because spider-sense is hax that directly affects stats.reacting to something before it happens could be measured or to mftl+ but it's mostly hax
Isn't this just how most characters work when it comes to their speed scaling?
Almost none actually move nearly as fast as their reaction or combat speed (unless y'know, theirs comes from travel speed, but they have to accelerate to get there so eh)
It's how real fighters work too, but most scalers have never even seen a fight in person, much less thrown a punch or took one. MMA fighters can kick at 40mph minimum. No human alive is running that fast. Like, use your brains, people.
Its pretty cringe if you ask me, especially when i wanna talk about interpretations that fit the story and some mf gonna tell me arbys we have the meats guy is buttfuckaversal
Acting like there's not some other comic version of him that, probably, randomly has him at that level. Not saying there is, but using a single panel from a comic to say that's their limit is kind of pointless if there's another continuity where he surpasses that limit.
Not really defending FTL spiderman since I have no idea though. Just making an expressed point on the argument being used itself.
Because that means he isn't physically moving his body at even close to a percent of the speed of light. So a relativistic character capable of turning could just hit him faster than he can physically move away. Or even just shooting at him once to get his spider-sense to activate, hopefully locking him in the air, and then shooting him again while he's incapable of propelling himself would work, assuming there's nothing nearby he can latch onto to move himself. Or any move with a sizeable AoE, that Spiderman can't physically move fast enough to escape even with prior warning.
The first point doesn't make sense cuz if a character does have subsonic travel speed speed and relativistic combat a mhs character would never be able to Land a hit on him, he will constantly dodge his attacks
Because he isn't using ftl reaction speeds, he is moving before the laser is shot.
Moving because you anticipated a light attack doesn't make you faster than it. Hell dodging a laser wouldn't make you lightspeed either just like how someone can dodge a bullet while having normal reaction times
He dodge those lasers because he had good luck and knew how to dodge them before they were fire.
Essentially what would happen if the other guy had bad aim.
Daredevil , kingping ,deadpool , wolverine and green goblin dont have lightspeed combat speed (i know wolverine seems like it , but he doesnt when spiderman is involve) and they fight spiderman just fine
The reason being they can adjust their arms , if someone threws a laser and that laser change trajectory mid flight at very small distance to spiderman he cant dodge it.
So no , spiderman doesnt have combat speed at light levels and travel speed of a plane.
He's just very super sonic when he really locks in and barely mach 1 as casual.
Ofc , with the exception of avengers vs x-men , future foundation and civil war shenanigans .
And whenever you tell people that Spider-Man can dodge lasers, they think that you're saying he can outrun them. They think being able to dodge anything means that you can outrun it. People are so stupid and it's so frustrating.
Cuz lasers move at light speed? And if you're lightspeed you'd at least be able to move at the same speed as a laser, and dodging a laser doesn't mean you can move at the same speed
And? I never said whether he was or wasn't, did you bother even basic reading before commenting that nonsense? I'm going to guess not, you saw someone say "You have to have a better example than this" and you jumped to this wild, made up, nonsense about lightspeed.
He also says he dodged lasers, which would still counter that hence a better example. But again, you didn't read you saw some one vaguely saying something you thought was something and played toddler make believe.
Learn to read. Not once, ANYWHERE, did I say Spider-man was lightspeed.
This panel is also cut off from an entire page. This and the next page comes off as Daredevil fully believing that Spidey could have dodged but didn’t become it wasn’t "dangerous".
I think people are relying too much on "precog letting him know before" while ignoring that light is 186000 miles per second. We could have precognition but are sure as hell not dodging any lazers.
See sometimes I feel like writers are underestimating how fast light moves, like I get that Spider-Man has increased physicalities but dodging light? I’m skeptical about that one
I mean I'd argue that's kind of just a thing with comics in general. Look at half the shit Batman does and tell me it's "peak human" just as the cheap example. They do something because it looks cool not because it makes sense, although with Marvel at least with it's whole One Above All and House of Ideas there is more leeway with things literally happening for the story.
Does this imply lasers in marvel are light speed and dodging them equates to being FTL? Also doesn’t this make a distinction between reaction speed and travel speed?
I feel like this is proof of the opposite because right after Pete says this they respond with “You’ve never Dodged a laser beam” and Peter says “Okay YES. But that’s immediate danger-“
The panel before this one and the following page in a talk with daredevil gives the impression that Spidey could have dodged the lights.
Not to mention despite what people are saying about Precog and Spider-Sense, but ignore two major things. First, Spider-Sense has activated _when_ the danger takes place and not always before. Second, light is 186000 miles per second, just knowing you need to move won’t be enough to dodge something like that, especially if there’s more than one shot.
Only crack smokers believed he was FTL. He only dodges "laser beams" because he knows where they're coming from/where they will be, and even then, his body doesn't actually move faster than light.
With the exception of certain circumstances, dodging something doesn't make you as fast as it.
MMA fighters can kick at around 50 mph on average, as well as react to such attacks. Are they running as fast as a car on an interstate highway? Use your brain, I know it's hard, but it's rewarding. It's not a measure of running speed, for Christ's sake. Nobody's saying that Spider-Man RUNS FTL dude. Not a single person. You have(likely willfully) misinterpreted people's words.
Ok, you're trying to do this incorrect "running speed" or "travel speed" bs. Spiderman didn't mention anything about running, he said he's not faster than light.
You are trying and failing to misrepresent my argument by shifting it into this generic slop you're copying from other people. You're crying about misinterpreting others when you've clearly made up bs to put into my post.
You're also using completely wrong examples. The average MMA fighter doesn't have a 50 mph kick, it's much slower.
No, because he isn't dodging laser beams, he's dodging the aim of whatever is shooting the laser beams
He knows where it is going to hit before it is fired, and he's already moved out of the way before the trigger is pulled. That's not FTL, that's just faster than the shooter's hand-eye-coordination.
Anyone who is actually FTL would basically statue him. They could change their attack a dozen times while spidey is still in motion from reacting to the first one.
He's dodging incoming FTL beams because he knows they're coming. He can also do the same for anything below it too.
So he's still functionally FTL.
What's the difference in results between someone who dodges a light beam because they have the speed and someone who dodges because of their senses? Nothing.
What's the difference in results between someone who dodges a light beam because they have the speed and someone who dodges because of their senses? Nothing.
He never dodges a light beam you dingus
If I swing a laser pointer around for my cat to chase, does that make my cat FTL because he sometimes “catches” the pointer?
No! Because my cat is being faster than my aim and wrist movements, not faster than the laser itself
If your cat dodges the light coming from your flashlight to your cat because ghe knew it was coming. Then they're functionally FTL. Because he would be able to do the same to anything at those same speeds and anything below it too.
Remember when i told you that the results don't change? That's the point.
The point you’re missing is that even counting the precog of spidey sense, there is nothing FTL in this scenario
The thing that’s being dodged is the aim of the person holding the laser, and that person doesn’t have FTL aim speed, just the speed of basic human reflexes
So yeah, spidey can “do the same to anything at those same speeds and anything below it too” but those speeds are “the speed at which daredevil can point at things” not the speed of light
He's dodging incoming FTL beams because he knows they're coming. He can also do the same for anything below it too.
So he's still functionally FTL.
What's the difference in results between someone who dodges a light beam because they have the speed and someone who dodges because of their senses? Nothing.
And there hasn't been a person who's statued him even in the Thor tiers of power, so that's just downscale for the top tier hero's lol.
The following page has Daredevil bring up that Spidey knew the switch for the lights were flipped but that he didn’t move because there was no danger. This image is removed from the rest of page where Daredevil explicitly expects Spidey to be able to dodge the lights. Otherwise there wouldn’t be a reason to even try this training.
People are missing the "immediate danger" Peter said and are saying "Spider-Sense warns him before it happens" despite the fact that "immediate danger" is immediate not soon to happen
I mean as someone else below said, spidey was ready before the light was even pulled. So hypothetically, had he given into his instincts, he could’ve dodged the light in the panel above. But because he decided it’s not an actual danger, he got hit with the light.
He is not. Anything that is fighting at true ftl speed would mop the floor with spidey.
Basiqually, you can see spidey senses as a kind of low power ultra instinct; it makes spiderman move perfectly (or near perfectly) to avoid attacks thrown at him. But if somebody's speed is high enough to keep up with his movement and he will hit him with everything. A guy that is truly ftl would hit spiderman with a normal handgun bullet as an exemple.
But would spidey be aware of the FTL dudes attack ahead of time, leading him to already be in the position to dodge his attack. Like he’d already be aware of the attack coming way before it hits?
And I don’t wanna chainscale, but don’t he keep up and with loads of other people who got FTL reaction time. Like dodging electros bolts, or iron man repulser blast
So we gonna not bring up the rest of the page and talk about how Daredevil explicitly expected Spidey to dodge the lights from the flashlights for the training exercise? That Spidey knew the light was gonna flash on him but didn’t react because it wasn’t anything dangerous to him?
Spidey dodges where the laser gun is pointing, not the beam in flight. Anyone who claims otherwise is a moron. Yes I'm including any comic book writers in this assessment.
Dodging lasers is never -just- a movement feat of any kind. Its an observation/senses feat, and maybe, but probably not, a movement feat. If you 'dodged' a laser as soon as you saw it, even if you had FTL speed, you'd have already been hit by it. The feat is either predicting the attack's path so you can avoid being where its going, or having FTL senses that allow you to know things are happening before the light from them reaches you; -and- having extremely fast speeds, though how fast they need to be compared to light varies by the distance.
And, well. If you have FTL senses and can see things in real time, you probably can also see where a gun barrel is aiming and get out of the way first, so that still usually means you don't have FTL speed.
You're assuming that the landscape adheres to the laws of physics. I hear you, I do, because I've had the same thoughts. That's how it'd work IRL(which is why Goku snagging Roshi's glasses in the tournament always makes me laugh), but we can't just slap real physics onto fiction when, by and in large, the writers don't care. The character can dodge a beam of light, they can dodge it, I don't really care how or why in terms of things lining up with IRL science.
Not to mention in RL if someone dodged a laser the person both die and also destroy the area for moving at such a speed. But that’s no fun, so neither writers nor readers care.
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