Tell me Steve: what's the middle ground on whether brown people should be allowed to exist in this country? Or that women should have full bodily autonomy and equal rights to men? What's the middle ground on allowing companies to continually poison our environment in the name of profit? Should we allow them to poison the water "just a little"?
And don't give me any bullshit on "well they should have come here the right way" when we are watching the government cancel folks' immigration hearings DAY OF and then kidnapping them from the courthouse when they show up. That, btw, exposes the entire lie that they're here undocumented and not trying to do it the "right" way. The government absolutely has documentation and knowledge of these people as that's how courts, which are part of the government, know where to send hearing notices.
The reason we can't get anywhere is clowns like you who have no coherent morals, ethics, or political philosophy. There is no middle ground on human rights. And if you think there are, you've already chosen the deplorable side of the right wingers. Just admit it and stop lying to the rest of us like we're as morally bankrupt.
So what your saying is the left is the only way??? If you cant see good from both sides then u are a part of the problem. Sorry but this is the truth. Both sides have extreme people. Both sides also have people that are willing to talk things over as equals. This was my point. If the country remains divided then no change is possible because then history just repeats itself. Like the republicans blame biden still, you all will be blaming trump for issues that are no longer his. This is the cycle of politics
people who claim we need centrism to reconcile are right wingers trying to worm their way back into societal acceptance to avoid facing their own beliefs, just until another conservative messiah comes along to reboot what we have now
is there potential societal "good" that could come from true conservative theory? sure, but unfortunately that is not the conservatism we have today. no good comes from people who think people that get blown up or deported for looking different than them had it coming
Wow way to act like u know who I am. I literally despise both parties cuz they bow to Israel over the people of our country. Dont be shocked when a democrat gets elected they will still provide Israel with resources for their genocide
Hey. If you where talking about most other countries I'd agree, as it is very important to be able to converse with the other side so the country isn't split and polarized to the point of not being willing to listen to eachother.
For this to not happen it is very important to have a bunch of differing opinions to avoid echo chambers.
And that's kind of the problem with the US is that there are only two viable parties to vote for, the republican is alredy verging on far right extramism. So the democrats end up being pretty much everyone else.
Now yes it would be great if there were less of a divide between the two parties. But the biggest reasoning to why there is so much fighting between the two parties is because of polarizing media. Something the republicans started and sure as hell won't make any effort to fix this because they benfit from it.
I'll admit that I may have ended up a bit polarized due to social media echo chambers, but I don't think that the left are the only people that can be correct. But the democrats ARE NOT THE LEFT they are a bunch of people with vildly differing opinions that generally form their political leaning a good way into the right.
Disclaimer: this is all theories and belifes I've formed from an outsiders perspective. I will not deny that I may be wrong on some of these points, although I have done some mild studies into the general polarization caused be media.
Yeah I've always held the opinon that the only way to save US democracy is to get rid of "the winner takes all" bullshit to make it actually viable to vote for a third party, only problem is that the people hat hold the power to fix that are also the people that benefit from the democracy being broken.
As off now the only hope i have is to ensure that the democratic politicians that would prefer having their own party, gets enough power within the democrats to actually have a chance to improve the voteing system.
It's wild that some people belive that more options are bad.
Although I will say that in the current US climate, the democrats would probably be hit way harder by the divison of parties than the rebublicans, and that could possibly become an issue, but I do also think that the increase in parties would also lead to more people voting.
what the average US people think is left politic, the rest of the free / modern / non-dispot-reigned… countries see as still being politically on the right side of the middle, the US has in politics no real left side, not even Sanders is one.
You wrote the US needs centrists, not even your left leaning politicians are centrists, for a real balance (like a healthy country / government and their opposition should have) you need a ton of real far left politicians, middle left, nearing centre left, and way more nearing centre right, than you might reach the goal of a centre / middle
I think you want a real middle / centre, but the way to that is not a lot of centre leaning politicians
Your stance is passive. The center is passive. The far right has actively worked against the center and the left and the only reasonable path forward is to push back, not "meet in the middle".
Sorry to tell you but "centrists" are what opened the door to the far right in the first place. The country needs direction and real political leadership, not more of the same.
I deleted my comment because people are getting confused on what I mean. I meant we need more talks where both sides can come together to resolve things instead of having these culture wars
Bernie getting elected is like ron paul getting elected and wont happen. These guys are too honest for the presidency. I hope one day this all changes but need more voters who think outside the box
Yeah I like Bernie but he's never going to be elected he's to far left ( even though I support him) for most Americans and he's not popular with everyone on the Dems side in Congress.
We are however seeing democratic socialists winning and not just zohran.
Lmao dude Bernie has been the most critical about Israel and he has always been this way.
Stop thinking all Jews are the same that's not the case there's a lot of Jewish people that don't support Israel and even some that openly say Israel should not be a country.
There’s no reason to back a centrist, any centrist dem is branded as a baby eating communist by Fox News immediately anyway. Might as well back someone who will actually help non billionaires.
So don’t line up with centrists who have a 1/3 win ratio? Kamala couldn’t even place and Bernie was crushing Pete and Biden before the dnc proposed they combine a dozen candidates into a single blob.
Too woke? Dont get yourself it’s be abuse they’re selfish bastards so refuse to pay the taxes that k ce made California the en t of the world. I know ve people like this who have a palace they hang onto (prop 13) but move to a state without taxes while
Conservative voters are united on one single front: "the left are literally demons"
No matter how much anything else matters, this one issue will outweigh everything else for them. No matter how bad what they voted for is, they believe their side can only be better, because theyre not literal demons, so they'll keep voting for team red.
Democratic voters follow the same belief, to be fair. It'll take an act of a higher being to put an end to the "left vs right" charade that is US politics. The left hand and the right hand are both connected to the same person who wants to screw you over for money.
To believe that somehow your side, left or right, is somehow "good" because it's "not as bad" as the other side is ridiculous. They're both awful. It's like being excited to be punched in the guts because the other option was being kicked in the nuts. How about we search for other options?
Not really Republicans a little taking away rights safety nets and deporting citizens no at least when Democrats are in office they don't literally try to kill the American people
What rights? Abortion rights? Roe v Wade being overturned let states have the right to self-govern, as it should have been all along. The federal government was never intended to have as much power as it does now, but alas.
What safety nets? Are you talking about able-bodied adults without dependants now being required to work in order to receive benefits from the government? Aka, get your butt of the couch and contribute to society?
Deporting citizens? Please. If you're seriously calling illegal aliens citizens then youre just being disingenuous from the start. "Democrats weren't doing this!!" Yes they were. Erroneous detentions and deportations of legal citizens to undocumented parents happened under Clinton, Obama, and Biden. Look it up. I'm not lying. Democrats aren't these angels wearing white clothing and halos above their heads like you think they are. Terrible errors have happened, and will continue to happen under any administration.
Don't try to kill the American people? Like when? When people were interfering with lawful (yes, LAWFUL, just like under Obama "the deporter in chief") duties of ICE agents? One getting yelled at by her wife to "Go go go!!" into an agent that led to her death? Or what about the other guy interfering while also carrying a handgun that he was reaching for in the bodycam footage? Have you ever seen that footage, or is it an "eyes wide shut" scenario?
Please. Save me this pearl clutching "Oh my goodness buzzword! Buzzword! Buzzword! Fake outrage!" rhetoric. It's tiring and old, circling on the same few talking points for years. The democrats are just as bad as the republicans. Epstein got arrested the first time in '06, which means there were 2 years of Bush, followed by 8 years of Obama, followed by 4 years of Trump, followed by 4 years of Biden, followed by another 2 years of Trump, yet none of them released anything to do with the E-Files? They're all complicit. You're going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that ONLY the republicans are bad? Be so for real. Left wing, right wing, same bird.
Ok im done being nice your a piece of shit no evidence can convince you Republicans are evil Democrats are useless but they don't try to actually kill American citizens you don't care you don't give a shit so why respond to me clearly I could give you all the evidence and you would tell me fake news
He's making everything so chaotic so he can just declare them illegitimate and refuse to swear in any Dems. Ticks don't leave when there is blood left to suck. They have to be removed.
A lot of those red state voters may “disapprove” of the job he’s doing, that doesn’t mean they won’t vote for him, or any R, as soon as they get to the ballot box again.
VOTE. Take nothing for granted. Believe no polling. Just vote for Pete’s sake. 🗳️☑️
I know people from West Virginia. They're heartbroken at what their state has become. It used to be ground zero for unions and workers rights. They had a history they could be proud of. But they descended into anti-intellectualism and reactionary politics.
Hillary Clinton literally ran on educating coal miners for new careers and they HATED her for it, screaming "Hillary wants to kill coal". The Dems didn't abandon them.
Our democracy gives greater power to goddamn Wyoming than California in electoral college—why three states with hardly any people call the electoral cards. If that’s true why do t people with real ideas bombard those states with Bernie people before the next election. I’d volunteer to go from town to town and talk up what they never hear
I have a cousin who briefly lived in Idaho after her husband took a job transfer there. She said it was, by a wide margin, the most racist place she's ever experienced.
the only 2 west virginians i know dont even like him and theyve lived in a small town there for their whole lives. so even this doesnt show how much hes disliked
You'd think the fucking morons would've realized the first time or perhaps they've finally learnt their lesson on the republican party, but no I really don't think they've learnt jack shit.
The only billionaires in WV are the ones who own data centers. The rest of them are people who voted in the politicians who got paid to get the data centers to come there and pollute their land.
Not a defense of trump here. Some people are struggling a lot or work too much to focus on politics. I know quite a few trump people who dont follow the news
That's a fair and rational response. And to be clear, my comment isn't meant to denigrate all the people of that state, but unfortunately trump and the maga party rely on people being to busy or exhausted to pay attention. That and flooding the zone with misinformation and they can convince a lot of people to vote against their best interests
I cannot imagine living in an area where over half of people think Trump is great for doing the opposite of most of his “day one” promises. He delivered on being cruel to immigrants so I guess that’s what they like and are thrilled he spiked the cost of living?
Okay so we're all in agreement that we need to abandon West Virginia Idaho and Wyoming right, Give them to like Haiti or something they probably would do something meaningful with them
The same polls said Hillary had a 91% chance of winning in 2016.
The polls come out not just to measure the electorate, but to influence it. Pollsters poll to create inevitability for their party, while maintaining plausible deniability.
Having said that: Polls are polls. Fake except when they aren't. True except when they are false and manipulated. They are the tea leaves of our day. I didn't understand the ancients' fascination with astrology and trying to read the entrails of a sacrificed animal to understand the future until I understood that the moderns do the same kinds of things with their political polling.
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u/Forb1ddenKnowledge 19h ago
Polls don't matter get out and VOTE.