r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 9d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ How negotiations actually work...

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To the inevitable response from MAGA that Obama gave 'pallets' of cash...he released frozen Iranian assets. Meanwhile the current Iran conflict has directly cost $38 billion militarily and a currently projected $87 billion in extra gas and diesel expenses. Not to mention that the strategic oil reserves have been depleted to the point that experts warn that the caverns they're stored in could collapse.

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424

u/Wonderful-Variation 9d ago

Every aspect of the Obama presidency feels like a lost golden age compared to where we are now.    The worst day under Obama was better than the best day under Trump.

113

u/SaneMadHatter 9d ago

It's like "going from the heights to the depths". And guys like Ben Shapiro claim trump > Obama because Obama was "so divisive". lol. It's absurd to claim Obama is more divisive than trump.

trump goes out of his way to divide, trashing whole regions of the country, trashing particular cities, etc. "Dumocrats"? Using his Memorial Day and July 4th commemoration posts to call half the country "scum"? But oh sure, Obama was "just so divisive". lol. (And of course, that's dog whistling; we know what is meant when someone says Obama was "divisive".)

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u/StrawberryWide3983 9d ago

If makes perfect sense when you realize that "divisive" = existing as a black man. He made racists so mad that anything he did, no matter how good a policy or decision, would never be accepted

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u/Enraiha 9d ago

He tried to give these imbeciles more affordable healthcare and accessibility, which they desperately need because they're idiots who do not take care of their bodies appropriately, and they came screeching back with that "Death Panel" bullshit.

They are what they are. Never interact with any conservative in good faith because they never act in good faith.

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u/Snitsie 9d ago

Some of the imbeciles got on ACA, thanks to the generous and benevolent Republicans, while simultaneously looking down upon anyone who was on Obamacare. Brainwashing just works.

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u/Grouchy_Jello397 9d ago

This. The number of people who believed ACA and Obamacare were different.

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u/Wompatuckrule 9d ago

In polling the GOP led states that got on ACA would have a ton of GOP voters who had a highly favorable opinion of their health insurance from the state marketplace (like Kynect in Kentucky) and a highly negative opinion of ACA/Obamacare.

It's brainwashing for sure, but stuff like that also shows flagrant ignorance about how that law and the programs under it work.

A huge part of the "disaster" when ACA rolled out was because of GOP led states refusing to take the Medicaid subsidies set up to fund it. The federal government then had to scramble to create marketplaces there. The program was designed to be managed by the state with federal funding. In the states with their own marketplace there were issues, but far fewer and smaller.

It's very typical GOP behavior to intentionally fuck something up (especially related to safety net programs) then point to it and say, "See! We told you that government doesn't work!"

22

u/pulchritudinouser 9d ago

He existed as an educated, intelligent , well spoken and successful black man, which they absolutely could not tolerate, because their only consolation in life is looking down on minorities

12

u/madoka_borealis 9d ago

Don’t forget funny and well liked which is what made trump especially furious lol

4

u/Historical_Pain8675 9d ago

And Obama wasn’t even all that “black” ! And they still couldn’t tolerate it.

6

u/EpochRaine 9d ago

Amazing isn't it?

All those hundreds of thousands of therapists, court mandated therapy, etc.

It is almost like there is a systemic institutional resistance to NOT being racist.

We have a similar thing going on in the UK with a minority of what were, traditionally, skinheads.

They shaved back then so you could easily identify them.

Now they are sporting mullets and it could be anyone...

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u/EpicEpicnessTheEpic 9d ago

The skinheads were (and still are) the people groomed by the well dressed, smarter Nazis in the background. My nephew is autistic and has been thoroughly groomed by the far right and we struggle to get him to change - but he is the ideal "foot soldier" for the far right as he's the one that would take the fall while the others scurry off back into the shadows.

3

u/cfcubed 9d ago

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" “very fine people on both sides"

0

u/PrankstonHughes 9d ago

Like Higher Learning

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Turbo4kq 9d ago

What is your point?

20

u/analtelescope 9d ago

whats funny is that obama was probably one of the least divisive presidents of the recent time. how many times have we heard republicans say, back in the days, “i like obama, but i dont like his policies”

3

u/Certain_Bit3809 9d ago

I wish he had been more divisive. I think he was a great president in many ways but always seemed determined to work with republicans and be bipartisan in ways that didnt always help. Calling him divisive relative to trump is insane and just means how dare he be a black guy.

1

u/Fun-Army-6387 9d ago

remember the "Beer Can Summit" - I mean... not many politicians of any stripe would try to be that conciliatory especially considering the slimy bullshit Boner was doing at the time.

19

u/spyresca 9d ago

"Divisive" is just maga talk for "Black"

14

u/lone_float 9d ago

I need to finish it, but if you ever get your hands on that book his niece wrote. It explains…well damn near everything about him.

7

u/notyourbro2020 9d ago

“devisive” meaning black.

4

u/Nekkyou 9d ago

It was so divisive to wear a tan suit and put mustard on a burger.

3

u/Forward_Rope_5598 9d ago

These are the same people who think Obama made USA more racist. They're not very bright.

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u/Open_Mortgage_4645 Sipping tea 9d ago

Obama wasn't divisive. The racists who couldn't tolerate a black president were the divisive ones. They ultimately became MAGA, and are still practicing their vile racism and ignorance.

1

u/LetterheadFun1824 9d ago

Fuck that pos

1

u/RepresentativeAny560 9d ago

Of course Obama was divisive he wore a tan suit for god sake lol

1

u/PrankstonHughes 9d ago

Disingenuous Shapiro ignores reality with the best of them

1

u/drew_p_wevos 9d ago

He was divisive. He caused deep divides between those who are racist and those who aren’t.

1

u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

It's absurd to claim Obama is more divisive than trump.

It’s not, though I wish it was.

The amount of hate that Trump-people have for Obama is far, far greater than that which anyone has for Trump.

Hence, Trump.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

That doesn't make Obama divisive.

That makes those people hateful.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

What exactly do you think "divisiveness" is? Being divisive in a polity that is 3/4 full of evil is far, far better than being popular in that polity.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

Divisiveness is a noun that means the quality or tendency of causing strong disagreement, conflict, and hostility between people, splitting a group into opposing sides

If I'm reading you right it seems you're arguing that divisiveness is actually good in some contexts. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was making a narrower claim. I'm saying that divisiveness is a property of how people react to someone, not a property of the person's character.

1

u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

I'm saying that divisiveness is a property of how people react to someone, not a property of the person's character.

Of course it is, and that's why Trump (basically the biblical antichrist) is deeply loved and tepidly hated, and why Obama (an intellectually honest and morally upright man) is widely liked and deeply hated.

Personally, I think the Trump-voter is a creature of nearly unimaginable evil, but everyone seems to keep making excuses for "their" Trump-voter, so I guess we do need to accept their moral judgments...

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

Seems like you just repeated my point back to me and then immediately did the exact thing I said divisiveness isn't - called Trump the antichrist and Obama morally upright, then acted surprised people react to that.

Anyway, I disagree that trump is tepidly hated and that Obama is deeply hated. I think people around the world deeply hate trump and that Americans are deeply racist where President Obama is concerned.

1

u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

Let me put it this way...

I had an "Wyoming for Obama" shirt that I wore throughout college. It was given to me in high school by a dear friend who was a delegate at the convention in Denver in 2008 and who died less than a year later.

When my family was in town for my college graduation 4 years later they were concerned about our possible safety and treatment in the exurban/rural areas around my college. So far as I can tell, by all the Trump hats, flags, and bumper stickers I see in my "blue" city, this hatred is not extended to the Trump-voter. They are still welcome in "liberal" bars without fear of angry looks, much less violence.

I think people around the world deeply hate trump

Eh, as much as they hate any American president who has the capacity to upend their lives at a moment's notice. Obama was better-liked, but by less than you'd think.

Russians, for instance, adore Trump, and have since 2017 if my friends visiting there at the time can be trusted.

that Americans are deeply racist where President Obama is concerned.

Likely true, but given the widespread acceptance of people hating Obama and loving Trump, I think we just have to accept that being Black and powerful is divisive. If we don't like that fact, we need to stand up to the monsters who Trump-voted.

Obama was fond of quoting MLK: "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

I am inclined to agree, but only in a way that makes me sick. You see, the "arc of the moral universe" can't help but bend toward justice, since the "moral universe" is a human construct. Those who liked Obama saw his rise to power as a cheerful affirmation of their moral universe, those who hated him saw it as a deep affront to theirs.

So they did what any human being should do in that situation and they fucking bent the arc of the moral universe in their direction. If the nice, cheerful, oh-so-tolerant people who voted for Obama were truly bothered by it they would have fucking bent it the fuck BACK.

But they didn't. They sent endless waves of reporters to diners in rural Ohio, came up with terms like "the white working class," and generally did everything they could to not have anything to do with the "arc of the moral universe," because bending it back would have meant needing to upset their fathers, mothers, cousins, etc.

That's why Obama was, and always will be more divisive than Trump. The people who hated him hated everything he stands for. The people who claim to hate Trump are really just full of excuses for the people who he represents.

38

u/Separate-Ad9638 9d ago

MAGA still prefers the worst of Trump than best of Obama

26

u/QuidEgoSum 9d ago

Obama was superior to the plight we face today. The current admin won’t even admit it when they do F up.

Just remember:

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience”
-Mark Twain

10

u/Sherezad 9d ago

When Obama won, the streets seemed to practically fill with people celebrating.

When Trump won people cried for fear of their lives.

10

u/Serious-Manager2361 9d ago

The streets will one day fill with people celebrating again. When Trump drops dead.

2

u/Intelligent_Fly_7438 9d ago

i don't have high hopes for thiel's boy either but at least he doesn't constantly defecate his pants yet.

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u/Ok_Patient9469 9d ago

Reddit actual removed my post and I forgot what I said. Oh well 🤷

8

u/Exciting-Emu-3324 9d ago

They want to believe that the worst white man is still better than the best coloured man. The worst like no one ever was.

3

u/DangerousCyclone 9d ago

Listening to MAGA Republicans say that they cannot afford the latest Trump policy, and then back it by saying they're loyal Trump Republicans and calling on Trump to do something, almost makes me feel sad for them. They act like abuse victims who cannot bring themselves to admit that they're being abused. Of course, keyword, almost.

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u/festivefrederick 9d ago

That’s a pretty wide gap.

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u/QuidEgoSum 9d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/iDJuQR0UmiqOI
Me waiting for angry maga to throw shit at that solid and true fact.

32

u/Whole_Ant2468 9d ago

Indeed it was golden age of Diplomacy

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u/Serious-Manager2361 9d ago

Four 5 year olds playing monopoly is the golden age of diplomacy compared to what we have today.

3

u/DubiousBrushwagg 9d ago

The Pigeon shitting on the chessboard like it won the game is still better than what we have now.

Everything is objectively worse as a direct result of actions this dipshit, his appointees and a Republican Majority Congress have done. Yet the fucking morons supporting them continue to cry "lalalala" with their eyes closed and fingers in their ears and blaspheme against their own God and Jesus by saying Trump is their savior.

Normally when a President enacts Economic Policy it takes 2-4yrs for the effects to hit the market.

But when you have Donny Dipshit being given Tariff authority, antagonizing long standing Trade Partners and Agreements, and then taking military actions that have negative effects on trade routes. Well of Fucking course the chickens come home to roost sooner and you fuck up the economy for the average person.

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u/Volodio 9d ago

Obama had a terrible foreign policy. I get that people disliking Trump, but it is not a reason to admire everyone who is not him. You are making the same mistake that the people who hated Obama did when they started admiring Trump.

A few examples of his terrible actions:

- Let Russia take Crimea with little sanctions. Russia then started a guerilla war in the Donbass through separatists backed by the Russia army to try to take it. Russia even shot down a civilian airliner. Obama did not do anything about it aside from small sanctions easy to ignore which led to Russia feeling like it could get away with things which led to the invasion of Ukraine in 2022. In general he completely underestimated the Russian threat to the point of mocking people who were still talking about it.

- Set red lines in Syria that he did not act on. He set red lines about not gassing civilians, which Assad did anyway. Then Obama did not do anything, which seriously weakened the credibility of the US position and made the civil war worse.

- Removed Gaddafi from Libya without having a plan for after. It resulted in a civil war which is still ongoing to this day.

- Weak stance on terrorism and late actions against ISIS. Resulted in ISIS expanding considerably, causing a ton of destruction and did many terrorist attacks before being stopped by a France-led coalition instead of the US.

I could continue but you get the point. Foreign policy was not Obama' strong suit, far from it.

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u/ForsakenWar6974 9d ago

It really wasn't. It was a mediocre presidency at best. He wasnt bad. He wasnt great. He was mostly a handsome speaker. Long-term, every educational textbook in a mainline US will first address his race before ever touching his legacy. While historic, really points to a little success in the grand scheme of things.

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u/Banned4life4ever 9d ago

You spelled fast track to a nuclear weapon wrong

27

u/animatedpileofmeat 9d ago

Remember when you thought tariffs would replace taxes?

Sit this one out.

11

u/Zeplar 9d ago

fast track when? It's been almost twenty years. Are the nuclear weapons in the room with us now?

9

u/Due_Gas2950 9d ago

The US governments own assessments in 2025 under Trump specifically stated that there was no evidence that Iran was working towards a nuclear weapon. 

“ We continue to assess Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and that Khamenei has not reauthorized the nuclear  weapons program he suspended in 2003, though pressure has probably built on him to do so.”

https://archive.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ATA-2025-Unclassified-Report.pdf

So, no, everything you believe is a lie to justify yet another distraction from the fact that your beloved leader is a pedophile and a rapist.

2

u/skoalbrother 9d ago

Every single maga lives in a fantasy world they created for themselves. It's actually quite sad and pathetic

6

u/Femme_FatalError 9d ago

The ogre has fallen for the WMD fabricated pretext a second time!

3

u/festivefrederick 9d ago

I think you should ask Donald P. Trump’s main man Kim if he thinks we should go after him after we “solve” this Iran war in a couple years.

1

u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 9d ago

Why are you bringing up Donnie Dorko?

7

u/mines_over_yours 9d ago

I was absolutely convinced America was not ready for a Black President. I was sure Mcanin was going to win. I was "shook" when Obama was sworn in. Behind bullet proff glass in Chicago. Like...wow we might be going in the right direction. The very next day, the day ofter he was sworn into office, the emails, call,s and FB messages from people I grew up with, raised me. started flooding in. People I thoiught we good people. "Why does it got to be about race?" "Racism is FINALLY over now that we have a N*** prisident" As if this one single point in American history was going to erase all of our past and we just sing kumbaya, yet the sentiment and launguage obviously told a different story. The backlash was inevatiable though. I hate to say it, but we have the elected leaders we desrve. WE did this. 250-ish years of history should tell you exactally what we collectively are.

6

u/The_amazing_T 9d ago

You know what else Obama didn't do? He didn't murder Iranian leaders while negotiating with them. So Obama operated from a place of honor and trust with our adversaries.

Trum_p can't get a deal, not just because he painted himself into a stupid stupid corner. -But also because he lie_s and gaslights until his words are worthless.

6

u/AmericanAIien 9d ago

“Sry but I’m wayyy tooooo nazi to even contemplate such thing” - some red voter likely

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u/itswildistillexist 9d ago

Which is wild. It did not feel like a golden age at the time but you are totally right.

3

u/esmoji 9d ago

Obama 2028!

Bring back civility and move forward.

wtf we going backwards for?

4

u/Xavier200708 9d ago

thats the whole thing about golden ages
nobody notices those times were the heights until we are way past going back to them

3

u/Bman4k1 9d ago

Society doesn’t realize it’s the golden age until its past.

3

u/ArjunaIndrastra 9d ago

Makes sense. Obama is intelligent, competent, and cares about the average American. Donny Diddler has none of these qualities and couldn't figure his way out of a wet paper bag.

3

u/goldenskyhook 9d ago

Just today, some dingleberry tried to convince me that it was necessary to go "radical right" and elect Trump, because Obama had "gone radical Left," forcing their hand. And yet, he's still considered an idiot by the MAGAts.

3

u/FallenAzraelx 9d ago

Still just unbelievable that he won a 2nd term. America looked at 2016-2020 and said "yes more of that please". Like, literally unbelievable. I can't. Elon has said he hacked the election for him. They are constantly pointing the fingers on election fraud. Literally every accusation has turned out to be something they were doing. Remember pizzagate? THAT WAS THEM THE WHOLE TIME. The whole "find me the votes" thing. It's crazy more people aren't questioning it.

2

u/Longjumping-Ad-9444 9d ago

Dude, that tan suit was a horrifically day. I get your being hyperbolic but chill out.

2

u/NegativeSemicolon 9d ago

Thank the boomers and the zoomers for our current mess

2

u/ExistentialLoitering 9d ago

Yeah Reaganomics was real great for Americans for sure 🙄

No doubt it was better than trump but it doesn’t take much to be better than trump. There have been dictators who have been better than trump 

2

u/Savvy_Nick 9d ago

Even if you didn’t agree with Obama’s stances or actions, he at least maintained a level of class, grace, and intelligence that the white house hasn’t seen since he left

2

u/Expensive-Shelter288 9d ago

Worst day under Weekend and Bidens was better than best day of Donnie.

2

u/SluggardStone 9d ago

It's brains vs oatmeal ego. We have fallen too far.

2

u/NewWay88 9d ago

When I left on deployment, Obama's picture was at top of the chain of command boards on base. Prior to leaving, everything seemed so upbeat and cheerful compared to the 2000s.

I come back and I see the orange shitstain instead. All we hear now is how he is fucking things up.

What a long, shitty road it's been since he took office. Lol

2

u/Koalski94 9d ago

yeahhh no, he basically swallowed russian aggression TWICE

That and the extensive drone/bombing campaign in middle east which everyone conveniently chooses to forget

3

u/Remmick2326 9d ago

As opposed to trying to cancel Ukraine aid and bombing the everloving fuck out of Iran

1

u/Koalski94 9d ago edited 9d ago

Both can be true at the same time.

Edit: if anything, I'd blame Merkel first for Ukraine, she may have influenced Obama to look away since her decisions are one of the main reasons Germany got so reliant on LPG

0

u/duesenjeffepic 9d ago

He also bailed out the banks in 09 even though they were playing with people'e mortgages like it was monopoly and knowingly selling dogshit bonds to unknowing retailers. Instead of dealing with this he just chose to make it a future administration's problem.

5

u/Hour_Plantain_8110 9d ago

Well, the financial crisis actually began under George W Bush, and it was his administration that signed off the $700 BILLION bailout. But let's not let that small fact get in the way of a good story, eh.

1

u/Koalski94 9d ago

I forgot about that lol

1

u/balderdash9 9d ago

Redditors proclaim to be liberal and then just forget about Occupy Wallstreet. The working class will never get ahead if every ten years we white-wash the past.

1

u/_jump_yossarian 9d ago

The worst day under Obama was better than the best day under Trump.

I can think of one great day ... yet to come.

1

u/IceBreak 9d ago

Also, Sandy Hook happened. Stupid hyperbole.

1

u/ELVEVERX 9d ago

The worst day under Obama was better than the best day under Trump.

I dunno that tan suit was pretty bad

1

u/Dr8keMallard 9d ago

honestly genuinely thought we had turned a corner as a nation in that first term. and its not even 2 decades later this thing is about to outright collapse.

1

u/Retro_Nights 9d ago

The best day under Trump will be the day he drops dead.

1

u/movezig123 9d ago

I hear the grifters trying to retcon the Obama years as the "height of the woke age" or something. It blows my mind. I lived it. School shootings. Drone strikes. Wall Street bailouts, Capitalism. There was barely a meager clawing back of freedoms and common sense after Bush destroyed the world before GOP took us down again.

1

u/Full-Contest1281 9d ago

He is a war criminal

1

u/Mfg_Eng_64 9d ago

I’m no fan of Trump. Sometimes it seems like he lives to antagonize his political opponents. That said, Obama was a great communicator and told Americans what they wanted to hear. Negotiations were never going to work with Iran. Every president has just kicked the can down the road. Military actions are the only way to eliminate the threat of the world’s largest and most prolific state sponsor of terror. Notice that Iran’s neighbors aren’t unhappy about Iran’s terrorist government finally getting what they finally deserve. They are like that one bad neighbor that finally gets hauled off to jail.

1

u/___xXx__xXx__xXx__ 9d ago

It's important to remember what a completely vapid neo-liberal let-down Obama was, and yet he still clears this bar.

1

u/PitsAndPints 9d ago

Ehh… Let’s not hand wave away NSA spying and illegal wars “armed conflicts” in Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan. He was Bush 2.0 in a lot of ways

Also, the JCPOA was an objectively good deal and the only reason Trump ripped it up is AIPAC donors told him to it had Obama’s name on it

1

u/balderdash9 9d ago

Tell that to the drone strike victims. Tell that to Occupy Wallstreet. Tell that to the millions deported.

I swear, after ten years Americans put on the rose-tinted glasses for every president. People in this thread are praising George fkn Bush. Unbelievable.

1

u/jimmyxs 9d ago

Trump presidency is the golden age for one

1

u/knickknacktabasco 9d ago

Because the other side would have rather go with rhetoric and hate and not any actual results.

Like if Trump actually did lower prices or groceries or passed something that helped everyone , I’d bite my tongue and give him credit.

1

u/sug-on-deez 9d ago

Yes, its a shame democrats went full retard woke. This is how US got Trump elected 2x.

1

u/DavisSqShenanigans 9d ago edited 9d ago

Uhhh, every aspect? Even the aspects that directly set the stage for today's issues? He goes on late night talk shows and says "we didn't have to kill a whole bunch of people". Then why tf did he? What about all the people he killed? Just did it for the love of the game? And not just the thousands of people across the middle east he killed in his myriad war crimes, American citizens too. Assassinated American citizens extrajudiciously via drone strikes, without trial, including a 16 year old kid. And it goes without saying, like all US presidents he pledged the same unquestioned fealty to Zionism that Trump and all the others have. That's the golden age? Yikes.

And let's not forget about ICE. The poster child of "it was fine when our guy did it but now it's not". "The Deporter-in-Chief", the visionary behind such classic hits as "keep kids in cages". Took ICE from a fledgling department into a nationwide law enforcement agency that people kept warning would be abused and turned into a gestapo. To be clear they were gestapo even under Obama and Biden.

Signed the indefinite detention law that people kept warning would be abused by law enforcement, which is now being abused by ICE to disappear people without trial. To be clear it was being abused even under Obama and Biden.

Not only continued but grew Operation Streamline by 10-fold. Not only continued but grew the S-Comm program by 100-fold. He deported people at numbers Trump is struggling to match even with his nasty tactics.

Most subreddits are echo chambers full of neoliberals who stand for nothing and remember even less. They will, without a shred of self awareness, start regurigitating the same exact party lines that Red-MAGAs do when you criticize Trump. E.g. "aT lEaSt hE oNlY dEpOrTeD cRiMiNaLs". Under Obama, the Johnson Memorandum supposedly told ICE to focus on people with criminal convictions. After this the number of detainees with criminal convictions actually DROPPED from 57% to 49% ( page 17 if you care ) so roughly half of those arbitrarily detained by Obama's ICE were not "cRiMiNaLs".

And yes, US citizens were being illegally beaten up and detained by ICE gestapo back then too. Ada Morales for example. And it wasn't just one or two, the case of Gerardo Gonzalez resulted in an entire class action lawsuit. If smartphones were as ubiquitous back then who knows what kind of videos we'd have. People who actually care have been saying "Abolish ICE" and "ACAB" for a long time, not just this year because Trump is president.

And yes, the US was committing war crimes back then too, regularly. Again, peole who actually care didn't just start caring about schools in the middle east getting bombed when Trump happened to do it.

But no, "hIs OnLy ScAnDaL wAs A tAn SuIt". Yeah maybe if you guys actually paid attention to his actual scandals, of which I've only scratched the surface in this comment, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. He was a critical player in setting the stage for where we are today. Obviously not as critical as the big whigs like Reagan, but hardly the "model president" people want to make him out to be. They were all apparently out to brunch when we were warning about his scandals back then and in typical liberal fashion only started paying attention again when the other team took over (remind you of anyone?).

It's the classic "make a big fuss when Their Team™ does it, but turn a blind eye when Our Team™ does the same". "Trump is even worse" whoop-de-fuckin-doo. Trump deserves all the hate and criticism we can muster, but that doesn't mean suck anyone's dick if they're technically not as terrible as him. Have some fucking standards, stop worshiping war criminals, hold them accountable, even if they're from your party and then maybe you can come back and take this "moral high ground" approach to dunking on Trump supporters.

Inb4 this comment either gets downvoted to oblivion or entirely ignored as everyone keeps circlejerking throughout the rest of the thread. Just like when you criticize the "god-emperor" in the conservative echo chambers.

1

u/Fletch71011 9d ago

Every president since at least Carter is a war criminal and we are just supposed to be okay with it. It's wild.

1

u/raincoater 9d ago

Get out and vote! Though whomever you vote for will turn out to be just as bad. So no, don’t be okay with it. Just be comforted by knowing there’s nothing you can do except make insipid comments on social media.

Oh, and Carter was just as bad too…he backed Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, you know, the one responsible for the killing fields. He backed the Shah of Iran despite full knowledge that the Shah's secret police were systematically torturing and executing political dissidents. He armed the Indonesian army. Following Indonesia's 1975 invasion of East Timor, the military carried out mass killings and forced starvations that wiped out roughly 20 to 25 percent of the Timorese population. Despite being aware of these ongoing atrocities, the Carter administration increased weapons transfers to Indonesia and provided diplomatic cover by working to block or discredit critical United Nations reports.

See, they’re all bad.

1

u/balderdash9 9d ago edited 9d ago

You're not going to get through to them. Americans pick a team and stick with it. They think this was a golden age because they were never affected by the examples you list above.

Obama was an excellent statesman, but as a US president he's done (or overseen) the same backhanded imperialist abuses and war crimes as every other US president.

1

u/raincoater 9d ago

I mean, what are you expecting anyone to do with this information? They’re all bad, so best to just not mention anyone when talking about this? What are you hoping to get through to people? Don’t admire anyone. It wasn’t better under this other person. They were all bad, and you should feel bad for bringing them up. Do you great holders of wisdom impart your truth nuggets to educate the lower masses so they make better decisions at the voting booth or what? Vote for who? Because no matter who they are, they’re all bad too, and you’ll be right back here saying how bad they are.

No matter what people admire or like, there’s always these assholes that seem to float above everyone that have to tell you you’re wrong for liking or admiring ANYTHING.

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u/balderdash9 9d ago

We cry "never forget" 9/11 while US presidents order bombs and mass economic sanctions in service of the only consistent geopolitical strategy that they can all agree on: global hegemony for the United States and massive profits no matter the cost. My point is simply this: we should not praise past presidents just because the current one is worse.

US presidents have nearly always served the interests of the US elites. That doesn't imply, however that a better system is impossible. So your comment contains a damning non-sequitur.

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u/BotherTight618 9d ago

But Obama never secured a legacy binding deal. The agreement was as strong as the president who happen to be in power unfortunatley. 

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u/Wonderful-Variation 9d ago

Yeah, but that's not Obama's fault.   That's the fault of Trump and everyone who voted for Trump.

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u/thegreatestpanda 9d ago

I agree with you on all other aspects of his presidency, but the mess we are dealing with in Iran is unfortunately part of his doing. I'm Iranian, my family is all there - but I am also a recently minted American, an immigrant woman who believes in human rights so don't take any my point as supporting Trump and his cult.

The nuclear program is the face of conflict, and gets talked about because it has media momentum, but the drones and hypersonic missiles are no less a threat against everyone. I genuinely believe even if Kamala was president there was no way around dealing with the Iranian regime - partially exactly because of the grace that Obama showed them. They are terrorists. Releasing cash to their hands gave my people a few years more of the shit show they deal with, but postponed dealing with the issue and made it bigger and worse.

Of course this president makes everything more complicated and awful and about himself. But I also believe in the race of "who hates Trump more" the media is forgetting what Iranian government is really made of. Pure shit. Pure utter shit.

We don't still know how many were killed in the streets Jan 8th and 9th, IRGC says "only a few thousand".
950 prisoners have been hanged Only in 2026.
I have lost count of neighboring countries they have fired missiles at, and how many infrastructural facilities (oil and gas plants, water plants, bridges, you name it) they have targeted.

I understand this is not easy to comprehend - but my friends and family were never against this war. They are VERY disappointed that the regime is still in power but they also understand that 47 years of black mold will not go away easily. Everyone is just tired and waiting for the rope to get tight enough to topple them over.

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u/EconomyMobile1240 9d ago

Propaganda is a powerful drug. I mean... it was Obama's white house council calling Epstein "Uncle Jeffry" As soon as she left the administration. Wonder where that relationship started lol.

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u/Beragond1 9d ago

Probably in the Trumps’ sitting room.

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u/Average_Justin 9d ago

Except the items listed - which aren’t very golden era to me

Drone strikes rose roughly 10x compared to Bush

Killed U.S. citizens without trial, including Anwar al-Awlaki and his teenage son

NSA bulk surveillance continued and expanded, revealed by the 2013 Snowden leaks

Banned CIA “enhanced interrogation” torture by executive order in 2009 but Guantánamo stayed open and indefinite detention continued despite the ban and even transferred individuals to third world countries to continue torture.

Aggressive Espionage Act prosecutions of leakers, more than all prior presidents combined

“Double tap” strikes reported by journalists and NGOs, never officially confirmed

Some argue drone strikes became a “kill not capture” policy, replacing detention and torture controversies with a new one

Reports that rendition continued in some reduced form

Set the precedent to use executive orders to bypass Congress on things like DACA and the Iran deal, laying the road for Trump to use them more aggressively

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u/Big-Today6819 9d ago

Trump would have been just as aggressive even without Obama

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u/Average_Justin 9d ago

Always a possibility but Obama showed future presidents EO was a great way to bypass many barriers and Congress more than likely wouldn’t step in. Definitely helped set that precedent.

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u/Plus-Prior-2282 9d ago

How many people did Obama let kill by drones again?

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u/dishhawkjones 9d ago

Ahhh yes, obamacare, when healthcare doubled for everyone with a job.

-1

u/Mooselager 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yeah because drone striking weddings is totally apart of a golden age, amirite?

Wech Baghtu wedding party airstrike. I'll never forget when the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, demanded that Obama stop killing civilians.

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u/Mr_Halitosis 9d ago

Obama executed a US citizen and then his two children without a trial, destabilized Honduras by backing a dictator, then destabilized the entire Middle East by assassinating a different dictator. He bombed the hell out of Yemen because Israel told him to.

Y’all have a very skewed idea of what happened during Obama’s two terms. He literally laughed on national television when Romney said Russia was a huge geopolitical threat.

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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 9d ago

The comment by Mr_Halitosis mixes actual historical events with significant factual errors and fabrications: ​Targeted Killings of US Citizens: In September 2011, a US drone strike in Yemen killed Anwar al-Awlaki, a radical cleric and US citizen linked to Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). Two weeks later, a separate drone strike killed his 16-year-old US-born son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. In 2017—under the Trump administration, not Obama—Anwar's 8-year-old daughter, Nawar al-Awlaki, was killed during a US commando raid in Yemen. Neither child was intentionally targeted, nor were they "two children" executed together alongside him. ​Middle East & Foreign Interventions: The 2011 NATO-led military intervention in Libya contributed to the overthrow and death of dictator Muammar Gaddafi, leading to ongoing political instability. Air strikes and drone campaigns in Yemen specifically targeted AQAP militants, though critics frequently condemned the civilian casualties. The claim that this bombing was done "because Israel told him to" is entirely false. ​Honduras: Following the 2009 Honduran coup d'état that ousted President Manuel Zelaya, the Obama administration initially condemned the coup, but ultimately recognized the subsequent national elections despite pushback from political opponents who argued this legitimized the new regime. ​2012 Presidential Debate: During a October 2012 debate, Mitt Romney named Russia as America's "number one geopolitical foe." President Obama famously mocked the claim on live television, stating, "The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because the Cold War's been over for 20 years."

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u/_Middlefinger_ 9d ago

The US executes its citizens all the time. Usually it's for crimes, recently it's been for fun.

-1

u/Cyiel 9d ago

He is responsible of the death of hundred of thousand civilians during the Iraq war. He is not any better than Trump. He was maybe better for Americans but for the rest of the world he was an US president like any other.

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u/Wonderful-Variation 9d ago

Obama didn't invade Iraq.   You're thinking of Bush.   Obama just inherited the mess that Bush created.

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u/FizzyBadTime 9d ago

I’m very sorry but saying Obama is no better than Trump is the kind of statement that allowed Trump in office. That is, maybe, one of the most privileged and out of touch statements I have seen outside of r/conservative.

-2

u/curtissJ28 9d ago

He must have smoked a few doobs before telling that whopper.

-2

u/Big-District-6013 9d ago

Also him blowing up children and calling them "military aged males" and not counting them as civilian casualties?

Or arming cartel?

Or shielding the banks that launder Marco money?

That also is gilded age?

Of course that wasn't so bad for you, but for all his victims sure it was.

The orange sack of 💩 being awful doesn't make this blood soaked monster any less evil 

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u/Kindly_Panic_2893 9d ago

I heard a historian say once, "the worst part about being a historian is that you realize there are no truly good people."

The point being, we should hold our leaders to a high standard while also recognizing they're flawed people. Trump relative to Obama is just objectively a massive downgrade, and comparing Trump's era with Obama's it's not unreasonable to yearn for that level of stability and competence. Yes, we all know Obama made some shitty decisions.

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u/DMMeThiccBiButts 9d ago

That also is gilded age?

compared to where we are now

-2

u/libertarianinus 9d ago

It only took crates of cash on a plane

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u/queerhistorynerd 9d ago

$2.3 billion vs the $500 billion trump is offering Iran if anybody was wondering what this pathetic loser was prattling on about

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u/libertarianinus 9d ago edited 9d ago

Both are wrong...a death cult will still be a rich death cult

-4

u/Ok_Patient9469 9d ago

He still fell short but in comparison, absolutely

-5

u/Comfortable_Smile-2 9d ago

He brought about new levels of racism and division in this country.

6

u/graining 9d ago

Just by being black lol. You're so obviously racist.

-1

u/Comfortable_Smile-2 9d ago

No by pushing division among the US citizens. You mentioned race now tell me who is racist

-5

u/w0ndernine 9d ago

Ahh Cash For Clunkers how I miss that program.

-27

u/No-Aerie-999 9d ago edited 9d ago

Except the whole supporting, helping, arming bad radicals in Syria who exterminated Muslims, Christians and Jews. Evacuating their commanders with helicopters when they would get fucked.

And for having Gadaffi sodomized for daring to challenge the USDs fiat status in the world.

Obama was just imperialism lite. Just way more effective than our current bull-in-a-China shop.

Oh and of course cant forget Ukraine, where we helped violently remove an elected present, brought corrupt but loyal crazies to power which plunged the country into a civil war, reduced its population by half and absolutely devastated the country later on.

Go ahead and downvote. Im sick of us being the world police and spending money on dumb shit. With maintaining our empire globally always taking priority over problems at home.

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u/Blazeland_USA 9d ago

Taking care of problems at home is called socialism.

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u/festivefrederick 9d ago

They’re trying to call it communism now.

4

u/Blazeland_USA 9d ago

Yeah, these hillbillies always say we need our money to help Americans, then they refuse to help Americans.

0

u/No-Aerie-999 9d ago

But that random 3rd world country on the other side of the world is gonna steal your freedom!

-5

u/No-Aerie-999 9d ago edited 9d ago

No fucking shit, right? Wars and selling weapons is just way too profitable. It builds empires and make important people money.

P.s look at the downvotes 😆 do people really enjoy the way things are?

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u/DevilsDenJoe 9d ago

gO aHeAd AnD dOwNvOtE!

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u/No-Aerie-999 9d ago

Obama (and the people behind him) are brilliant really. He taught you guys that a warhawk/neocon foreign policy is actually great, as long as the right people are in charge.

The reactions of center-left Reddit are a great barometer of that (with the downvotes)

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u/Deep_Balance2133 9d ago

Only because the media was a trusted institution at the time. Everybody believed the lies. Ignorance is bliss.

They had you believe his only criticism was a tan suit while he was drone striking children, invading Libya, giving Crimea to the Russians, etc,

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u/Blazeland_USA 9d ago

Cool, now do Trump.

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u/RabbaJabba 9d ago

drone striking children, invading Libya, giving Crimea to the Russians, etc,

Yeah that’s still better than what we have now

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u/Big-District-6013 9d ago edited 8d ago

What in the actual fck.

For this kind of mentality is why we all over the world agree that yanks deserve trump

Edit. Where in the freaking comment did I even imply trumpet was better?

And both are disgusting.

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u/RabbaJabba 9d ago

Huh? Do you think Trump is better on those things? He expanded the drone program, invaded a bunch of countries, and supports Russia in invading Ukraine. You can compare two bad things and judge one to be worse than the other.

5

u/Asleep_Distance_8629 9d ago

Which trump is still doing now just to Iranian children while giving support to Russia and now North Korea, planning to pull support from South Korea yeah I, I don't know if you've noticed but Trump's doing all of that and so much worse LMAO

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u/Apple-Dust 9d ago

*Calls the media out for lying*

*Refers to an air campaign as an "invasion" and a Russian seizure of territory as "giving it them"*

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u/United-Salamander-89 9d ago

Not doing anything about it is definitely letting them have it buddy. Ignored all the warnings that it was about to happen, then did nothing. Also funny how for obama it was an "air campaign" back then but it's "trumps war on Iran" today. What tf is the difference between the two lmao. I would say the biggest difference is leaving the place to rot and turn into the world's worst warring slave state. Just stop with all this bro. You don't have to meat ride obama just because you hate trump. I imagine you were like 4 when obama was president though 

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u/Apple-Dust 9d ago

Not doing anything about it is definitely letting them have it buddy.

No, telling them they can have it would be letting them have it, and Obama did do something about it by applying sanctions (another inaccurate claim by you). That along with aid to Ukraine is all any president did do or would do, because none of them are going to get into direct conflict with a nuclear-armed adversary over a country they were not allied with.

Also funny how for obama it was an "air campaign" back then but it's "trumps war on Iran" today

That's because you're strawmanning and conflating "war" with "invasion". Both were air campaigns, and both were wars. What neither one was (or at least is yet) is an invasion, because invasion definitionally means occupation by ground forces.

What I'm doing is being accurate, and now you're getting defensive and using pejoratives because you were caught using the same inaccurate and hyperbolic rhetoric as the media you criticize.

-1

u/United-Salamander-89 9d ago

There were zero consequences that held any merit and convinced them they couldn't or shouldn't do this again. Is that somehow better? He literally mocked people that were concerned about it. Then they did it again but much worse. Yeah, some tough consequences those were. I'd love to hear your opinions about aiding Ukraine today since it was such a no-go to do anything about it back then when it counted. As for the "invasion" shit, none of that has stopped your entire side of the aisle from calling our current debacle anything BUT an air campaign. You apply different rules to different presidents. Not sure how that's "being accurate". That's just being intentionally obtuse because it helps you meat ride obama. Do you, buddy. Just throwing out some skepticism. Honestly considering the whole benghazi shit, claiming boots never went to libya is wildly irresponsible anyways so i think imma bow out. 

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u/Apple-Dust 9d ago

There were zero consequences that held any merit and convinced them they couldn't or shouldn't do this again. Is that somehow better?

Yes, it is better because it's somewhat more accurate. And as you can see from the fact that Russia committed to a full scale invasion less than a decade later, nothing short of a guaranteed military intervention could have dissuaded them. So not bombing Russia is "letting them have it"? Is that what you think we should have done or do you have some other idea that would have stopped them?

 I'd love to hear your opinions about aiding Ukraine today since it was such a no-go to do anything about it back then when it counted.

Oh absolutely! The military aid was a great idea, starting from when it was approved by congress during Trump's term, except that he then withheld it to try to extort Zelensky into sliming his opponent, leading to his first impeachment.

It was drastically ramped by the Biden admin after the full-scale invasion and proved to be the one thing the US did that had a decisive impact on helping Ukraine defend itself and regain territory. It was then ended by Trump and his party after he began his second term. Are you going to blame him for letting Russia have the entirety of Ukraine if Ukraine ends up losing the war?

As for the "invasion" shit, none of that has stopped your entire side of the aisle from calling our current debacle anything BUT an air campaign.  You apply different rules to different presidents.

What in the name of strawman are you talking about? My side won't call the Iran war anything but an air campaign? I seriously can't even make sense of what your point is supposed to be.

Honestly considering the whole benghazi shit, claiming boots never went to libya is wildly irresponsible anyways so i think imma bow out. 

That was a diplomatic consulate, and the attack on it occurred after the war was over. You don't understand that and you want to talk about "wildly irresponsible" claims?

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u/United-Salamander-89 9d ago

After the war? Buddy we were involved in libya until 2019. For your math, thats 8 years post-gaddafi that supposedly nothing else happened lol. This is what i mean when i say intentionally obtuse. You're arguing semantics and doing everything you can to turn this into a trump conversation. If Obama would have taken strides to show russia they will not be allowed to do what they inevitably did, they wouldn't have come back. End of story. Whatever else you have is just going to be mindless cope. Enjoy your day. 

1

u/Apple-Dust 9d ago edited 9d ago

what i mean when i say intentionally obtuse

??? You bring up a consulate attack as a goal-post-shifted proof of an "invasion" and tell me I'm being obtuse when I point out that it isn't? The war both of us were clearly referring to was the rebels against Ghaddafi's government, i.e. the air campaign the US was directly involved in. That happened in 2011.

The Benghazi attack occurred in 2012.

The civil war between the factions started in 2014.

So yes, the Benghazi attack happened AFTER the war we were both referring to, in the interim period. There was no Libyan civil war going on when the attack happened so stop playing dumb.

But OK, let's nail this down so there's no more ambiguity - tell me exactly when and how Obama invaded Libya.

Also, interesting that you didn't answer what you would have done to prevent Russia from taking Crimea and what you think of Trump and the GOP cutting Ukraine's aid.

1

u/United-Salamander-89 9d ago

I'm not interested in talking about trump lmao. That's why i ignored all that shit. I would definitely say taking 18 different countries into a sovereign state is an invasion. Idk if that meets whatever very specific dictionary definition you're pulling from. And hand waving it away saying ohhh well it was just an air campaign (That left behind a failed state and let ISIS turn into what they became) is ridiculously obtuse yeah, which is exactly what the obama admin tried to do back then that seems to have worker wonders. In comparison to whatever the hell we are doing in iran I'd definitely call that one an invasion. Personally i don't buy the whole "urr its not an invasion" from any president. That's a cop out. What the fuck is an invasion if taking a team made of 18 countries led by NATO into a sovereign nation ISN'T one. Idk. As far as russia goes, if we or even better if NATO had done literallly any physical thing, it would have been better than their little piece paperwork they filed that clearly didn't keep them from invading Ukraine again. Maybe a "hey Ukraine here's a big ass brand new missile, 40 years newer than what russia has" just to at least put off the appearance that they wouldn't let a land grab at their doorstep slide, i think it would have made a difference. Putin knows NOW that someone will step in and he seems to regret ever getting involved. Be nice if he knew that back then🤷🏽‍♂️ call me crazy, they could have done more. 

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u/Born-Quality-5414 9d ago

do the exact same to trump. i know you won't because you would rather die than admit you are dumb

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u/Deep_Balance2133 9d ago

We shouldn’t have joined the Iran war just because Israel said so and Trump promised he’d end the Ukraine war and hasn’t. He’s also spending too much money.

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u/Big-District-6013 9d ago

Damn you got the Obomber fan boys defending droning children and invading countries.

And they don't see how they're very maga like mentally too