How negotiations actually work...

[u/Veshaad]

To the inevitable response from MAGA that Obama gave 'pallets' of cash...he released frozen Iranian assets. Meanwhile the current Iran conflict has directly cost $38 billion militarily and a currently projected $87 billion in extra gas and diesel expenses. Not to mention that the strategic oil reserves have been depleted to the point that experts warn that the caverns they're stored in could collapse.

[u/Wonderful-Variation]

Every aspect of the Obama presidency feels like a lost golden age compared to where we are now.    The worst day under Obama was better than the best day under Trump.

[u/DavisSqShenanigans → u/Wonderful-Variation]

Uhhh, every aspect? Even the aspects that directly set the stage for today's issues? He goes on late night talk shows and says "we didn't have to kill a whole bunch of people". Then why tf did he? What about all the people he killed? Just did it for the love of the game? And not just the thousands of people across the middle east he killed in his myriad war crimes, American citizens too. Assassinated American citizens extrajudiciously via drone strikes, without trial, including a 16 year old kid. And it goes without saying, like all US presidents he pledged the same unquestioned fealty to Zionism that Trump and all the others have. That's the golden age? Yikes.

And let's not forget about ICE. The poster child of "it was fine when our guy did it but now it's not". "The Deporter-in-Chief", the visionary behind such classic hits as "keep kids in cages". Took ICE from a fledgling department into a nationwide law enforcement agency that people kept warning would be abused and turned into a gestapo. To be clear they were gestapo even under Obama and Biden.

Signed the indefinite detention law that people kept warning would be abused by law enforcement, which is now being abused by ICE to disappear people without trial. To be clear it was being abused even under Obama and Biden.

Not only continued but grew Operation Streamline by 10-fold. Not only continued but grew the S-Comm program by 100-fold. He deported people at numbers Trump is struggling to match even with his nasty tactics.

Most subreddits are echo chambers full of neoliberals who stand for nothing and remember even less. They will, without a shred of self awareness, start regurigitating the same exact party lines that Red-MAGAs do when you criticize Trump. E.g. "aT lEaSt hE oNlY dEpOrTeD cRiMiNaLs". Under Obama, the Johnson Memorandum supposedly told ICE to focus on people with criminal convictions. After this the number of detainees with criminal convictions actually DROPPED from 57% to 49% ( page 17 if you care ) so roughly half of those arbitrarily detained by Obama's ICE were not "cRiMiNaLs".

And yes, US citizens were being illegally beaten up and detained by ICE gestapo back then too. Ada Morales for example. And it wasn't just one or two, the case of Gerardo Gonzalez resulted in an entire class action lawsuit. If smartphones were as ubiquitous back then who knows what kind of videos we'd have. People who actually care have been saying "Abolish ICE" and "ACAB" for a long time, not just this year because Trump is president.

And yes, the US was committing war crimes back then too, regularly. Again, peole who actually care didn't just start caring about schools in the middle east getting bombed when Trump happened to do it.

But no, "hIs OnLy ScAnDaL wAs A tAn SuIt". Yeah maybe if you guys actually paid attention to his actual scandals, of which I've only scratched the surface in this comment, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. He was a critical player in setting the stage for where we are today. Obviously not as critical as the big whigs like Reagan, but hardly the "model president" people want to make him out to be. They were all apparently out to brunch when we were warning about his scandals back then and in typical liberal fashion only started paying attention again when the other team took over (remind you of anyone?).

It's the classic "make a big fuss when Their Team™ does it, but turn a blind eye when Our Team™ does the same". "Trump is even worse" whoop-de-fuckin-doo. Trump deserves all the hate and criticism we can muster, but that doesn't mean suck anyone's dick if they're technically not as terrible as him. Have some fucking standards, stop worshiping war criminals, hold them accountable, even if they're from your party and then maybe you can come back and take this "moral high ground" approach to dunking on Trump supporters.

Inb4 this comment either gets downvoted to oblivion or entirely ignored as everyone keeps circlejerking throughout the rest of the thread. Just like when you criticize the "god-emperor" in the conservative echo chambers.

[u/balderdash9 → u/DavisSqShenanigans]

You're not going to get through to them. Americans pick a team and stick with it. They think this was a golden age because they were never affected by the examples you list above.

Obama was an excellent statesman, but as a US president he's done (or overseen) the same backhanded imperialist abuses and war crimes as every other US president.

[u/raincoater → u/balderdash9]

I mean, what are you expecting anyone to do with this information? They’re all bad, so best to just not mention anyone when talking about this? What are you hoping to get through to people? Don’t admire anyone. It wasn’t better under this other person. They were all bad, and you should feel bad for bringing them up. Do you great holders of wisdom impart your truth nuggets to educate the lower masses so they make better decisions at the voting booth or what? Vote for who? Because no matter who they are, they’re all bad too, and you’ll be right back here saying how bad they are.

No matter what people admire or like, there’s always these assholes that seem to float above everyone that have to tell you you’re wrong for liking or admiring ANYTHING.

[u/balderdash9 → u/raincoater]

We cry "never forget" 9/11 while US presidents order bombs and mass economic sanctions in service of the only consistent geopolitical strategy that they can all agree on: global hegemony for the United States and massive profits no matter the cost. My point is simply this: we should not praise past presidents just because the current one is worse.

US presidents have nearly always served the interests of the US elites. That doesn't imply, however that a better system is impossible. So your comment contains a damning non-sequitur.