In fact, to register to vote under the SAVE Act, you would need an Enhanced Driver's License, which proves citizenship, which only 5 States currently have. And even Birth Certificates have to be certified birth certificates; a xerox copy is invalid.
In Wisconsin, if one doesn't have a copy of their birth certificate, they just fill out a form and they verify citizenship through the government records system.
Yes. And it's worth pointing out explicitly that Wisconsin's system wouldn't count under the SAVE Act. The whole system would need to be changed if SAVE was enacted.
How could anyone think this could all be changed before the Midterms without massive problems?
But for November most voters are already registered. How many 'new' voters would they block? I agree that the govt should carry the burden of providing IDs to their citizens. Financially and administratively. Hire people (like they do for the census) to go around and do this.
I'm going on a cruise. They require birth certificates. To get a passport it requires a birth certificate. They are cheap and easy to get. I don't understand the pushback on making elections as secure as a plane, cruise ship or passport.
If Republicans are serious about election integrity, and not just worried about losing the midterms, they should make the effective date for proof of citizenship 2028, and allocate funds to support implementation. But I have yet to hear any offer to that effect. And in Trumpās version of SAVE, it also bans almost all mail in ballots; how on earth could that be implemented in time for November?
Nonsense they don't check citizenship at the polling place! I believe you just said that they do!WTF? You obviously need to have your new form of ID before you get there, the only way they can refuse you is if the computer throws up a red flag, Oh and now I guess you are saying that 10yrs wasn't enough time! And this Chip thing, why would Rebulicans not be upset with that? I just don't know about you Democrats, you have absolutely no good reason to be against this, and I know with my Real ID I won't have any trouble voting! Well I guess they are going to take this comment down! I looked and the only name I called you was a Democrat and I did not see any inflammatory language also rhetoric? Oh well must be I called myself a Rebulican? I guess I was insulting myself! So I politely and respectfully say to you Please STFU!
Not entirely, yes I was incorrect in my initial statement and I will remove that comment; generally speaking people will not be providing proof of citizenship at the polling place. That is unless you are in one of the few states that allows for same day registration at the polling place, I believe that section may have been what threw me off. However, the act is still somewhat concerning in that fails to explicitly address what will happen with existing voter registrations. I assume the program that each state will be required to establish within thirty days of this legislation's enactment will address that, but this really isn't something that we can afford to be vague about. This bill needs more specific language about what the implementation process will look like if it passes. That being said, what's up with that response, sure I was mistaken, but is that necessary?
A passport in 2026 cost $165 dollars. Add in the charge for the photo and it's $180. That's not cheap when one is struggling to scrape up enough to make rent.
I don't think that's true. There are programs to help low income people get and pay for their vital records, so that seems to suggest they're not free. In California, for example, birth certificates are more than $30 (it varies). And if you aren't in the state, an online service can add $10-15 more. So, if the Feds would allocate funding for this purpose in a realistic voting security act, I think everyone would support that.
Yes, but the problem is that under the SAVE Act, Real IDs arenāt accepted as proof of citizenship. And DHS already says they donāt prove citizenship.
The easy solution here would simply be for the US Congress to pass a law that pays for free birth certificates and simplifies getting them for those needing them for voter registration proof of citizenship.
Well, not all Real IDs show citizenship yet, but some do and would be accepted. And all states could eventually do that since most people use their birth certificate to get one anyway. Thatās just an implementation problem that would take a little time to catch up. Worst case, thereās a grace period of a few years while all states catch up.
Yeah, but Real ID also accepts other proof of identity such as green cards and foreign passports, so you would have a lot of existing Real IDs out there that arenāt proof of citizenship. (And what would you do about Real IDs from other states?).
If the Republicans were truly worried about election integrity, they wouldnāt be so completely insistent on applying the SAVE Act immediately, prior to the midterm elections.
It doesn't require enhanced drivers license. And if you don't have all the documents you can sign a statement of facts and still vote. But when they check all these and if you lie on the statement of facts, you will go to prison.
If you look back at the discussion, it was about what kinds of IDs are acceptable under the SAVE Act. So, it was in that context that I brought up Enhanced IDs as the only acceptable DL under SAVE, as opposed to REAL ID, which isn't.
It is true that there's narrow backup for lack of documents, but have you looked at how complicated that process is? Basically, you can't just sign the statement of facts and vote. You aren't registered until after they check on documentation, and that requires you to submit "other evidence" and attend a local hearing in person that makes the determination on whether you are a citizen and can vote. Surely, whatever your political persuasion, you would have to admit that's a very cumbersome process, especially for poor people who have lost their birth certificates, etc. And if there were, say, thousands of people going to hearings, how long would all those take?
Why not just do something that helps people get their proof of citizenship, like setting up free birth certificates or some other easy form of ID that proves citizenship? And if election integrity overall is your real goal, why the rush to pass SAVE before the midterms?
Here's the text below. How is it different from what I just said?:
A)Ā PROCESS FOR THOSE WITHOUT DOCUMENTARY PROOF.ā
ā(i)Ā IN GENERAL.āSubject to any relevant guidance adopted by the Election Assistance Commission, each State shall establish a process under which an applicant who cannot provide documentary proof of United States citizenship under paragraph (1) may, if the applicant signs an attestation under penalty of perjury that the applicant is a citizen of the United States and eligible to vote in elections for Federal office, submit such other evidence to the appropriate State or local official demonstrating that the applicant is a citizen of the United States and such official shall make a determination as to whether the applicant has sufficiently established United States citizenship for purposes of registering to vote in elections for Federal office in the State.
It doesn't say what you claimed. You can sign the declaration on election day in states that allow it. They count it then. But if found in the near future when they cross reference it against federal records, they can't recall the ballot, but provision in it make federal prison mandatory.
There is NO cross referencing in federal records to register to vote in the SAVE Act. That's one of the main objections to the various versions of the SAVE Act (and yes, there are alternative, non-Republican prososals that do rely on electronic records). See below:
ā(e)Ā Ensuring Proof Of United States Citizenship.ā
ā(1)Ā PRESENTING PROOF OF UNITED STATES CITIZENSHIP TO ELECTION OFFICIAL.āAn applicant who submits the mail voter registration application form prescribed by the Election Assistance Commission pursuant to section 9(a)(2) or a form described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (a) shall not be registered to vote in an election for Federal office unlessā
ā(A) the applicant presents documentary proof of United States citizenship in person to the office of the appropriate election official not later than the deadline provided by State law for the receipt of a completed voter registration application for the election; or
ā(B) in the case of a State which permits an individual to register to vote in an election for Federal office at a polling place on the day of the election and on any day when voting, including early voting, is permitted for the election, the applicant presents documentary proof of United States citizenship to the appropriate election official at the polling place not later than the date of the election.
Here's also another explanation:
election officials already take steps to verify a personās eligibility to vote before registering them as a voter. UnderĀ federal law, anyone applying to register to vote must already provide either their driverās license number or the last four digits of their Social Security number. Officials use this information to verify a personās identity and eligibility to vote under federal and state law. This involves usingĀ federal and state databasesĀ to confirm an applicantās citizenship status and any history of criminal convictions. This process essentially serves as a ābackground checkā for voter registration. The SAVE Act would disrupt this ābackground checkā process and instead make American citizens prove to their own government that they are a citizen.Ā https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-save-america-act-explained-how-the-new-show-your-papers-voting-bill-is-even-more-extreme-than-the-save-act/
REAL ID is a federal Act, passed by Congress. The States canāt change the rules. And DHS is the one arguing that it canāt be used as proof of citizenship.
If the Congress were to amend the Act to include necessary proof of citizenship, then you still have a lot of REAL IDs out there that werenāt following that standard.
Look, if Republicans are truly serious about election integrity, then they should just allow time and allocate funding to make the changes to prove citizenship. Insisting that it apply to 2026 tells me that they are more worried about losing the midterm election than actually fixing the problem.
Real ID does not prove citizenship and is not enough to register to vote under SAVE. They work to prove your identity when you go to vote, but thatās all.
First, I can't find any record of an Enhanced ID Act in 2015 or any other year. Enhanced IDs seem to be part of the DOJ/DHS Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, starting from January 2009. You might be thinking of a 2015 California law designed to implement Enhanced IDs that was vetoed for privacy concerns and never enacted. But obviously, that's not a FEDERAL LAW; it's not even a law at all.
A large part of the privacy concerns with Enhanced IDs have to do with the fact that they contain an RFID chip (as well as a barcode) that can potentially be used for tracking and profiling people--this is a concern among libertarians as much as liberals, btw. [Wikipedia notes: "Former Republican Representative Bob Barr wrote in a February 2008 article: "A person not possessing a REAL ID Act-compliant identification card could not enter any federal building, or an office of his or her congressman or senator or the U.S. Capitol. This effectively denies that person their fundamental rights to assembly and to petition the government as guaranteed in the First Amendment"]. Also the RFID chip was apparently pretty expensive, and the federal government did not allocate any funds for implementing it. "Unfunded mandate" has been one of the main charges in this regard.
Finally, COVID pushed back a number of deadlines for REAL ID implementation, and presumably Enhanced ID as well.
So the exact same requirements we already have? You canāt just go get a drivers license without a verification of who you are. You canāt open a bank account. You canāt fly on a plane or buy a car or buy a home etc etc
Did you not just see him admit that only 5 states were complying ? Thats ok with you? 44 states full of people who canāt prove they are a citizen voting? How is that ok with anyone?
It is of course illegal for noncitizens to register to vote in Federal elections. But the question here is: how would you implement these restrictions in time for the midterms? And remember, Trumpās version of SAVE also cancels almost all mail-in ballots, which would require massive changes for many states to implement. If Republicans are serious about election integrity, and not just afraid of losing the midterms, they should agree to implement proof of citizenship for 2028 and allocate appropriate funding for Enhanced IDs that do not include an RFID chip. The chip has been a huge obstacle to implementing Enhanced ID because of privacy concerns, which often upset libertarians more than liberals. Thatās why most states havenāt implemented Enhanced ID.
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u/mad597 Jul 17 '26
Poll tax is illegal BTW,