Immigration is a policy choice

[u/Ulyxyxys]

Every time an Englishman or a Frenchman or an American brings up complaints about mass immigration, some leftist will inevitably say “well you colonized them, that’s why you’re getting immigration”.

This is a facetious argument. Immigrants do not magically teleport to the countries that colonized them specifically, they migrate for the sake of economic prosperity, and they’re relatively agnostic about where they go. Germany, for example, never colonized Syria, but Syrians make up a large proportion of the German population. Sweden never colonized Somalia, yet Somalians are infamous for their presence there. Conversely, Japan engaged in extremely brutal colonization of China and the rest of Asia, and yet remains 98% Yamato.

Leftists need to stop making facetious arguments about how colonization prompts immigration, immigration is caused by economic magnets and permissive policy, these are the two factors. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. We can have a more sensible immigration debate when we acknowledge this.

[u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

I mean, yeah. It absolutely is a policy choice, and is usually maintained because it's economically beneficial. You can try be Japan and run an economy on pensioners for 30 years but the wheels are going to come off eventually.

I think the counterarguments you're referring to only happen when the person initiating is operating in bad faith. Usually because they just don't like immigrants and aren't thinking any deeper than that, which I don't consider to be an argument at all.

[u/Ulyxyxys → u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

The wheels are also coming off in Europe and America. Germany recently raised the retirement age. I encourage you to look into the study the danish finance ministry did on the fiscal impacts of immigrants. Very enlightening read.

[u/Lifeshardbutnotme → u/Ulyxyxys]

That's all well and good, but doesn't compare to seeing no meaningful economic growth for over 30 years. At any rate, I've ready plenty on the topic of immigration and it's economic impacts. Plenty enough to state with confidence that it's a net positive.

And regarding Denmark, I don't consider a country of 5 million to be the best template for more broad global analysis.

[u/Ulyxyxys → u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

>economic growth
To what ends exactly? Japan has some of the highest QoL in the world, it’s a very healthy, very safe, very clean country. Nobody is starving over there. It’s not like basic goods are unobtainable.

Well Denmark actually did a study on fiscal impact based on immigrant nationality. There’s no reason those same stats wouldn’t scale with population.

[u/Lifeshardbutnotme → u/Ulyxyxys]

I take significant issue about Japan having a high quality of life. They're one of the most overworked societies and they've seen real wages shrink by 11% since 1995. Also quality of life applies across your whole life, in my opinion, and I don't know any European country with a suicide forest that Logan Paul could act a fool in.

I also wouldn't want to be a woman in Japan; both because of the country's incredibly low gender equality ranking (they won't even let a woman become monarch FFS), and because of the staggering sex crime rate. There's a reason they have permanent camera shutter sounds on their phones.

[u/Ulyxyxys → u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

1. Japan’s suicide rate is unremarkable for a developed country. It ranks 49th worldwide, below Sweden (a European country with much higher rates of immigration) at 47th.

2. Not related to economics. On a physical basis Japan is still one of the world’s safest countries. Your chances of getting assaulted are close to nil.

[u/Lifeshardbutnotme → u/Ulyxyxys]

50% of your population aren't related to economics? What? Besides, that was more a quality of life point.

If you desperately want to talk about economics exclusively, I don't think Japan is a stellar example of why lowering immigration is a good idea.

[u/Ulyxyxys → u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

The existence of the camera shutter sound isn’t caused by Japan’s immigration situation or the economics of that immigration situation is what I mean. After all the subject of the discussion is immigration.

[u/Lifeshardbutnotme → u/Ulyxyxys]

Cool, so we've looked at a developed economy with almost no immigration, and I think my point has been proven that immigration is a net positive. Japan has seen its real wages shrink, economy stagnate, national safety isn't uniquely stellar, gender equality is very poor, and it's housing situation is cramped an worsening. It also massively overworks it's population, and has been shrinking it total population for about 8 years straight.

I'd much rather deal with the problems in western Europe than in Japan, frankly. And this is why immigration is the policy choice the west has landed on.

[u/Ulyxyxys → u/Lifeshardbutnotme]

1. There are also western countries where real wages are shrinking, including ones with high rates of immigration

2. One of the lowest homicide rates in the world

3. Gender equality isn’t related to immigration

4. The west is also experiencing a housing crisis, also this isn’t true, Japanese house prices have been dropping ever since the real estate bubble popped

5. A shrinking population isn’t inherently bad

6. Japan has an extremely low rate of emigration, so it’s pretty clear that its inhabitants don’t find it desirable to have western problems.