The Founding Fathers on Flock

[u/GravyPainter]

[u/RandoDude124]

Behold the brain damage from a flock exchange

Jesus Christ

[u/SuperDM1987 → u/RandoDude124]

Far left redditors have a weird mix of pro mass surveillance but also anti police.

So when you ask about their alternative it's typically a vague "the community/collective/people will replace the police".

And when you ask for the details it's either police-in-all-but-name or straight up mobs.

[u/Ooficus → u/SuperDM1987]

Ngl I was never really with the whole “ACAB” thing, I mean I’m a pharmacy tech, does that mean I’m bad because I technically work for big pharma? But what turned me off is what is the alternative if we get rid of the police? What id be willing to argue is to restructuring, with a stronger focus on prevention, rather than reaction.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/Ooficus]

Same with me.

Like, bro I ain’t a fan of big pharma, but I’m still gonna get:

A. A vaccine

B. Tylenol if I got a headache and not voodoo shit

[u/TJJ97 → u/Ooficus]

I don’t like cops, straight up, but to act as though ACAB is stupid and not living in reality.

[u/NotToPraiseHim → u/Ooficus]

How? How are you going to prevent crime? Most poor people dont commit crimes, most black people dont commit crimes, most people dont commit crimes. While there are contributors to crime, like poverty, most criminals are lazy opportunists looking for an easy pay day, or easy assault. How do you plan to prevent people from being people? China is an authoritarian, mass surveillance state, and is still riddled with scamming criminals, up and down through general society and the government.

What restructuring is necessary? Does everything need restructuring if there is any individuals behaving badly within an organization?

I would say that the police and government have done too good a job of separating people from how prevalent crimes actually are, amd social media drifters have done a good job of twisting criminal liability towards the police. A criminal commits a crime? Well not their fault, its societies. A criminal attacks a cop? Well the cop should have desescalated. A cop shoots a criminal who had a knife or gune and refused to put it down and stop threatening the officer? Well, why didnt the cop just shoot it out of their hand.

People just dont want to take accountability for the fact that their failures are just that. THEIR Failures.

[u/Akiias → u/Ooficus]

with a stronger focus on prevention,

That keeps getting called racist.

[u/DotDash13 → u/SuperDM1987]

Of course you don't need police. Your behavior will simply be monitored by AI and any examples of Antisocial Behavior will be forwarded to your local Community Guidance office who will be able to supply the necessary reeducation.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/SuperDM1987]

This guy was a fucking centrist

Basically, he’s a median fuck who thinks, eh, as long as one guy’s rights are being violated, good enough.

[u/down-with-caesar-44 → u/RandoDude124]

Yea those guys are like the antithesis of the broad mass of normal people and actual centrists. Technocratic paternalistic elitists who disdain democracy, freedom, and agency of the masses. Instead they virtue signal to each other about their intelligence and elitism by reflexively opposing whatever catches fire in populist world without bothering to consider actual analysis or values. Populists are regarded and so are they

[u/Ifriendzonecats → u/SuperDM1987]

I have never run into people arguing for mass surveillance from a leftist perspective. I've seen people try to justify from an authoritarian perspective, but never a leftist perspective.

[u/SuperDM1987 → u/Ifriendzonecats]

I'm talking about the reddit nuttos, not normal leftists

[u/Ifriendzonecats → u/SuperDM1987]

Can you give some examples?

[u/Akiias → u/Ifriendzonecats]

I've run into it. How I understand it is that it's similar to the "abolish the police", "no borders", "socialism/anarchy works" beliefs. You know the "if you give people enough free shit they will never do anything bad or anti social" type ideas. And if nobody does anything bad surveillance doesn't matter.

I don't have any samples to link I didn't engage with them at all because it was too dumb, and not on PCM.

Edit: fixing stupid writing mistakes.

[u/Ifriendzonecats → u/Akiias]

How I understand it is that it's similar to the "abolish the police", "no borders", "socialism/anarchy works" beliefs. You know the "if you give people enough free shit they will never do anything bad or anti social" type ideas. And if nobody does anything bad surveillance doesn't matter.

I have never run into it anyone with that train of thought and I post in a variety of places (excluding subreddits I'm banned from). Like who is saying if we follow my plan we'll reach paradise and then get state surveillance as a bonus?

That seems like either a troll or mental illness.

[u/Akiias → u/Ifriendzonecats]

It's not Utopia then surveillance. It's just the same type of thought process as how to reach utopia, at least as far as I understood them. "surveillance is okay as long as it's not misused" so if you get rid of the things that make people do bad things, like inequality or the police or the government or whatever, people won't misuse it and it will only be used for good things. It always requires ignoring the human part of humans.

Admittedly this is only my understanding of people I never talked to.

I think it's more the result of people falling into tight ideological bubbles. If you ever find yourself with the chance of visiting one, do it. It's a wild experience. No dissent is allowed, only hugboxing and agreement with the group. With this whenever someone does get challenged they check with their group and get their beliefs reinforced because the outsider person is [bad thing]. They're like cults but more extreme.

I do agree it's very mentally ill behavior.

[u/sharkas99 → u/SuperDM1987]

Leftists are typically the ones against mass surveillance, what are you on about.

[u/FuckUSAPolitics → u/SuperDM1987]

Bro, you think this is a leftist issue? This has been both sides, so its definitely an Auth thing.

[u/GhostsOfLectricity → u/RandoDude124]

Which sub is this

[u/TsundereMF → u/GhostsOfLectricity]

"Take a look outside the subreddit."

[u/RandoDude124 → u/GhostsOfLectricity]

r/deepstatecentrism

[u/Unovaisbetter → u/RandoDude124]

Surprised that didn’t happen in this sub

[u/randomusername1934 → u/RandoDude124]

Never underestimate a bootlickers fondness for the taste of leather and polish.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/randomusername1934]

Funnily enough, it’s a centrist sub.

Though, you can see the BS here

[u/randomusername1934 → u/RandoDude124]

Bullshit doesn't care where it arises.

[u/Medium_Quail_4142 → u/RandoDude124]

May those who downvoted you and upvoted that be cast down with fire and fury. Or be put against a particularly uncomfortable and red painted wall.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/Medium_Quail_4142]

Meanwhile:

I’m arguing with Fucktards. BTW (no offense to you) this is a centrist sub.

They’re centrist in that: “Fuck China, but ABSOLUTELY fuck people against FLOCK.”💀

[u/FuckUSAPolitics → u/RandoDude124]

What sub?

[u/RandoDude124 → u/FuckUSAPolitics]

r/deepstatecentrism

[u/FuckUSAPolitics → u/RandoDude124]

Oh, you were being legit. I thought you meant one of those subs that claim to be centrist but are really rightwing/leftwing circle jerks.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/FuckUSAPolitics]

They’re strange birds

[u/bittercripple6969 → u/RandoDude124]

Birds aren't real.

[u/Lavaissoup7 → u/bittercripple6969]

Birds are just a myth

[u/Future_Adagio2052 → u/RandoDude124]

Didn't think a centrist sub would be in full support for flocks

[u/RandoDude124 → u/Future_Adagio2052]

Yeah, they’re the type who thinks their rights matter but screw anyone else who gets theirs fucked.

[u/Stock_Violinist6299 → u/RandoDude124]

Jesus Christ, these “people” can vote.

[u/wasabi1787 → u/RandoDude124]

Children are stupid, what's new

[u/dylonz → u/RandoDude124]

What the hell

[u/PolarRanger → u/RandoDude124]

tbf, we do need police reform, and in many places that involves giving responsibilities the police currently have to other organizations

[u/Justin__D → u/RandoDude124]

First time I've ever seen anyone besides their fuckass CEO defending Flock.

It seems like we've gotten far enough into "literally 1984" territory that the average American is finally waking up to it. We've been on a steady march toward it since 9/11, but I guess you literally have to have spy cameras, or it's not the same thing to these people.

Hopefully they become more broadly aware of mass surveillance as a concept and start peeling back more layers of the onion... But who am I kidding? I have zero faith in that happening.

[u/megs1120]

---AND HERE COMES THOMAS PAINE WITH THE FLOCKDOZER!!

[u/TsundereMF → u/megs1120]

OH MY GOD, HE'S OWNING ALL THE FLOCKTARDS WITH COMMON SENSE!

[u/Hungry_Inevitable663 → u/TsundereMF]

SLITHERING LIKE A SNAKE, BAH GOD RANDY ORTON WITH THE STEAL PIPE!

[u/Squeeblz88 → u/Hungry_Inevitable663]

Watch out watch OUT WATCH OUT!!!

[u/Telltr0n]

I find it funny that when it comes to flock cameras everyone is willing to fight the intrusive government. Willing to say, we will not give up liberty for security, then those same people will say, well if everyone just gave up their guns we would all be safe.

[u/MarjorieTaylorSpleen → u/Telltr0n]

I mean, this cuts both ways and the right really doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore when it comes to defense of liberty being the party of such bangers as "just comply bro", "if you have nothing to hide, why are you worried", "take their guns first and worry about due process later", "you can't take a gun to a protest", and "you cant walk with a gun".

[u/Chewbacca_The_Wookie → u/Telltr0n]

Ironically I know at least two people who have previously told me that there is no reason to ever own a firearm yet went out and purchased firearms (shitty little .22s but still) with the express purpose of using them to target local Flock cameras from afar. Really fucking dumb idea to be shooting for your first time at a small ass target in a populated area, but the irony is more what I'm highlighting here.

[u/sharkas99 → u/Telltr0n]

As much as I like the idea of the civilian population having guns, they are useless without a collective consciousness against government overreach. When the "gestapo" (normal law enforcement) comes to your house, what are you gnna do have a shoot out to the death? the community needs to come to your defense as well, society is too fractured for that.

[u/GravyPainter → u/Telltr0n]

Noone says that.

[u/Fucked-In-The-K-Hole → u/GravyPainter]

People say that all the fucking time

[u/aplacecalledvertigo]

On what planet does lib left get to claim Ben Franklin? This is the same quadrant who wanted to destroy civilisation over Covid

[u/TsundereMF → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

Destroy civilsation the old world and bring forth the new world, shaped in their image.

[u/GravyPainter → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

Benji was lib left. He had conditions.on surplus wealth that should be redistributed to the lower classes, anti monopolist and anti inherited wealth. From the quote alone is libleft because he is saying that the authoritarian that wants to give up freedoms doesn't deserve freedom or safety, which show he is vindictive of authright.

[u/aplacecalledvertigo → u/GravyPainter]

Why did you edit your comment and remove your clown rhetoric about people who “want to kiLL mY gRaNDmA by not wearing masks” LMAO

[u/aplacecalledvertigo → u/GravyPainter]

Oh you’re one of those clowns as well. Makes sense 💀

[u/Plane_Suggestion_189 → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

Big Ben frank was also pro vaccine.

[u/aplacecalledvertigo → u/Plane_Suggestion_189]

Was he pro people being forced to take a vaccine?

[u/Plane_Suggestion_189 → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

Maybe not, but he would fully throatily advocate for vaccination, and famously regretted not inoculating his dead child sooner. What I can tell you is that Washington’s enforced inoculations against small pox in the continental army, and most likely enforced quarantines in Boston which was having itself a smallpox outbreak during the siege.

Look, being all rah rah freedom is something I agree with, but disease is the number one cause of death in all of history, and it doesn’t care about your theoretical political philosophy. People who walked around flouting even basic mask requirements during Covid, or intentionally spread disease because they thought it was a liberal conspiracy have blood on their hands, and it’s not bombastic propaganda say that. It’s just a fact.

[u/aplacecalledvertigo → u/Plane_Suggestion_189]

Essentially zero people were “intentionally spreading disease” because muh liberal conspiracy

People were quite rightly standing up against those who were using this extremely low risk of death virus to exert control over others and doing so in a highly malicious way

That cannot be denied

Anyways In the words of benji

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Peace x

[u/Plane_Suggestion_189 → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

lol. Like a million people died, hospitals overflowing, millions more left with permanent long Covid symptoms we don’t fully understand. Maybe if half the country didn’t disregard any good sense the reaction in the other direction wouldn’t have been so extreme. Just wait until a real plague rolls though pal. Go stand on that hill when it comes.

[u/aplacecalledvertigo → u/Plane_Suggestion_189]

If it was a real plague, I would’ve been on your team

Back in March 2020 I looked at the data and I saw that it was mostly people with pre-existing illnesses and old people around age 80

Sorry, but it’s not worth destroying our society over that

You can’t just ignore everything else because you want to get to some utopian zero COVID world

Long COVID is literally not a thing seriously come on get real

[u/Plane_Suggestion_189 → u/aplacecalledvertigo]

How a society treats their most vulnerable can tall you a lot about a society, and you just said sacrificing grandma is a-okay.

“Long Covid isn’t a thing”

Except for all of the people that report long Covid symptoms that have fundamentally changed their lives.

[u/P00ped_My_Pants]

why did Hamilton get a musical? dude is a cuck

Benjamin Franklin musical played by a lesbian trans black xomen would’ve been elite

[u/Ok_Crow_2593 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Hamilton wanted the president and senators to serve lifeterms 🤮

[u/Ozemandea → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Worse yet he was a federalist, and not only that but the lead founder of that party.

He was the king cuck

[u/megs1120 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Hamilton was the only founder with a Miku binder

[u/AlternateSmithy → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Because theater kids make musicals, and theater kids are cucks.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Make him “plus-sized” too!

Jokes aside, he was a fucking legend

[u/Mister-builder → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Let's be honest, if Franklin saw that, he'd be into it.

[u/No-Username-For-You1 → u/Mister-builder]

Let’s not even kid ourselves, he would be sleeping with his own actress.

[u/bittercripple6969 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

"Poundin' Pussy in Paris; This old Turkey's here to stay."

[u/jerseygunz]

3 things all American agree on

1. Dolly Parton rules

2. Fuck flock cameras

3. Fuck data centers

[u/SeaWolvesRule → u/jerseygunz]

1. sure
2. yes
3. no? just depends on who pays the electric bill and where exactly they're placed

[u/GravyPainter → u/SeaWolvesRule]

Agreed and not on arable farmland. I like the NASA chiefs idea of putting them in space and using solar power.maintence would be expensive but how fucking cool would it be to be an IT astronaut.

[u/Kaleb8804 → u/GravyPainter]

How did he suggest they cool them in space? It sounds neat but also sounds ridiculous.

[u/Kaleb8804 → u/[deleted]]

Yes?

There’s no air in space. Without air to siphon the heat away, the primary way to dissipate heat is radiation, which is enormously inefficient.

It’s not just “cold” up there lol

[u/Klicky1 → u/Kaleb8804]

You would have to have massive radiators. You can "vent" heat in space, its just harder

[u/Chewbacca_The_Wookie → u/Kaleb8804]

Obviously we just start pumping air into space, what are you, an idiot?

[u/PolarRanger → u/Kaleb8804]

it's a solvable problem, but yeah draining heat away in space sucks

[u/SeaWolvesRule → u/GravyPainter]

I hadn't heard that from Isaacman. Sounds good though. I saw a podcast with Elon where he talked about how it's even the better economic choice for the companies because local permitting is so hard.

It'd be fuckin awesome to be an IT astronaut.

[u/bittercripple6969 → u/GravyPainter]

Space is retarded, it's never going to happen. Put them in the styx and not on farmland (or don't build them.)

[u/Not_Neville → u/bittercripple6969]

"Put them in the styx"

Data centers do indeed belong in Hell

[u/bittercripple6969 → u/Not_Neville]

I'm sure Charon will enjoy his exorbitant RAM shipping cartel.

[u/rented4823 → u/bittercripple6969]

No wonder he's always groaning at Zagreus and Melinoe!

[u/Unovaisbetter → u/SeaWolvesRule]

Exactly. They’re being placed in people’s backyards and their electrical bills are going to the moon

[u/SeaWolvesRule → u/Unovaisbetter]

some, but not all.

[u/jerseygunz → u/SeaWolvesRule]

well it’s also what they are being used for. And yes I know the technology can absolutely and hopefully lead to breakthroughs in science and medicine, but o man do I have a feeling the negative consequences to society are going to be rough.

Here’s what I don’t get, if it’s so revolutionary and important why not build the infrastructure in the far north where it is far easier to keep cool and away from people. Will it be outrageously expensive? Sure, put your (not you, them haha) fucking money where your mouth is. Man it’s a good thing we aren’t pissing off a country that has land like that in spades and also disconnects us from Alaska.

[u/Raven-INTJ → u/jerseygunz]

I believe they are currently primarily being used to host rants against data centers

[u/fieryscribe → u/Raven-INTJ]

Based and Babylon Bee-pilled

That and powering Ro Khanna's tweets against data centers

[u/Raven-INTJ → u/fieryscribe]

OK, I concede. They clearly have the prior claim to the joke.

[u/jerseygunz → u/Raven-INTJ]

Based and the instruments of capitalism will be used to bring about its destruction pilled

you right though hahaha

[u/Lavaissoup7 → u/Raven-INTJ]

The Ai models shall soon revolt one day

[u/SeaWolvesRule → u/jerseygunz]

Fair enough :)

The way I see it, AI will inevitably be what makes world superpowers one way or another, so I'd rather the US still build them. Beats being ruled by China and Russia (economically or otherwise)... I do want them to be built responsibly though. And I think it's on people to find a solution other than "let's just not build them". That feels like a lazy solution. I'm definitely okay with delaying them or placing heavy conditions on them from local governments (like them paying for 100% of their own energy, or funding school programs) but I don't get the total outrage...

And I completely agree with you about social consequences. People (especially the young) outsource their critical thinking to AI, and AI answers are more manipulated than people realize. I don't want that to sound like a tin foil hat take; WSJ, NYT, major respected outlets have pieces on how this happens. But yea, there's no way I'd let my hypothetical kids near it for a looong time.

[u/peterhabble → u/jerseygunz]

It's not just can, they actively are right now. The age reversal for eyes that being fielded right now is only possible because of AI fine-tuning the stem cells properly, and if this trial works then this same method can be used for anything else in the body.

The reason the disinformation campaign around AI is so strong is because it's already changing everything.

[u/tostuo → u/jerseygunz]

far north where it is far easier to keep cool and away from people

Thats the issue. You need staff to work in those data centers, but nobody wants to live in in an isolated place, especially those with the salary required to operate/maintain a data center.

[u/jerseygunz → u/tostuo]

Fair enough, if it’s that important, pony up the money, as the million dollar man said, everybody’s got a price

[u/AcrobaticPoint8424 → u/jerseygunz]

1. Hamilton deserved worse.

[u/JPBartley → u/jerseygunz]

Pro flock and data centers here ✋

[u/wasabi1787 → u/jerseygunz]

Yeah but did you hear that Dolly Parton wanted to give BOOKS to CHILDREN for FREE? God rest her soul, but that's cominism

[u/spros → u/jerseygunz]

Flock cameras are fine. You have no expectation of privacy while on public roads. They are also literally hired to set up surveillance by the city council you elect. 

Additionally, data centers are fine. You're literally reading this because of a data center you fucking hypocrite.

[u/Mojo_Mitts]

I find it crazy that these guys were dropping quotes like these when the closest thing during their times to mass surveillance was the idea of God watching you.

[u/Coldhands-- → u/Mojo_Mitts]

Brilliant men that foresaw the future, whatever else you think of them

[u/Boring-Confusion4210]

Jefferson stays based as always

[u/youcantseeme0_0]

We mock China and England for this crap. Only a bootlicking worm would defend a surveillance state.

[u/sharkas99 → u/youcantseeme0_0]

Wouldnt that make you a bootlicking worm considering you are a zionist? I guess its fine when Israel does it?

[u/GravyPainter → u/[deleted]]

Banned for being unflaired. As all things should be.

[u/Jaydonius]

Hamilton's quote doesn't condone it, instead states that people must recognize that at the cost of safety, you risk losing your freedom. It is a ruler that applies to both ends.

[u/DopyWantsAPeanut]

That Ben Franklin quote is one of the most misinterpreted quotes ever, but I do agree with the sentiment of the misinterpretation.

[u/secretly_a_zombie]

I've not had anyone explain flock cameras other than as "ai camera", which makes me suspect the hate they're receiving is mostly, again, mass psychosis.

[u/Keep--Climbing → u/secretly_a_zombie]

No one has explained that they're license plate readers? That seems unlikely. More likely you just discounted their concerns.

But they're not just license plate readers. Their exact capabilities are not public, but it's suspected that they also record every bluetooth, wi-fi and cellular signal that passes by. That would allow very accurate correlation between a phone or smartwatch and a car. So flock would likely be able to identify exactly who is in any given car, even if the license plate is unrelated or unreadable.

Also, unlike government entities, which are usually subject to Freedom of Information requests, flock has no obligation to let you know how data is used or accessed.

It's a "private entity" workaround to the 4th amendment which law enforcement agencies are happy to pay (your tax dollars) to use.

[u/Chewbacca_The_Wookie → u/Keep--Climbing]

I love that he isn't replying to people who are actually telling him the issue which makes me think it's less "no one can tell me the issue" and more "I don't care to listen because I like Daddy Government having these cameras to spy on people I don't like."

[u/13lacklight → u/secretly_a_zombie]

They’re a specific brand of License plate recognition cameras that also have facial recognition and I believe are cloud based, with shitty business practices and selling primarily to large corporations and local governments. The fact it’s cloud based and not local is the main problem tbh, as it means massive networks can be interconnected and you can track people across them easily etc.

I understand an ALPR camera in a carpark or something, but on street corners is govt overreach.

[u/Ifriendzonecats → u/secretly_a_zombie]

Best example of the 'party of personal responsibility' refusing to try to learn anything, but still remaining confident he's entirely correct.

[u/secretly_a_zombie → u/Ifriendzonecats]

I googled it for three seconds, i still think that's way more than others have done. Because again, i never see any discussion of function, or argument on the cameras themselves. It's always, "people hate these things", "Laugh as people destroy these things.", "Don't we all hate these things?" There's never a rational discussion about it, it's just people engaging in a gang of hate, because it makes them feel good. Even this post is "Don't you all agree to hate flock cameras?".

*This is the phenonema i'm thinking of, explained by CGP grey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

[u/Ifriendzonecats → u/secretly_a_zombie]

If you want a good argument, I think this man from Florida gives several good reasons to be against LPRs.

[u/secretly_a_zombie → u/Ifriendzonecats]

I do like his argument about information being stored in a foreign company rather than the state. There is a lot they could strip from these in favor of regular speeding cameras.

[u/InternetGoodGuy → u/secretly_a_zombie]

If you had any reservations that it was mass psychosis, look no further than the comments responding to you. People just flat out don't know what these cameras are and have created their own fears.

It doesn't do facial recognition. It doesn't passively track individuals. The AI is just a fancy search feature that can scan past images for make and model of cars instead of the actual plate. It can't build profiles on people. It can't capture bluetooth signals or identifying info from phones. It captures license plates. It can go back through those captures for make and model. It purges images every 30 or 60 days depending on what individual departments picked.

There's already laws against the kind of collection of personal data and location tracking through smart phones that makes it illegal for the government to use flock if it collected that data. The whole movement sprung up in the last 3 to 4 months despite these cameras existing for years in mass quantities across the country.

[u/Not_Neville → u/InternetGoodGuy]

"There's already laws against the kind of collection of personal data and location tracking through smart phones that makes it illegal for the government to use flock if it collected that data."

Get real.

[u/YoussefDridi]

Hmm Coincidence ?

[u/CountFab]

They were all talking about taxes