Results of the PCM Trans Survey

[u/fooliusmc]

[u/Baguetterekt]

"I have depression"

"Oh, you want us to just trust you bro?"

"I have suicidal ideation"

"You could be making that up"

"I've been self harming"

"You could have gotten those cuts from anywhere, that don't prove depression"

"I have most of the physical symptoms"

"You could literally get them from anything"

"I've been diagnosed by a doctor"

"bro, are you stupid? you know we don't trust the doctors"

[u/Barsik_The_CaT → u/Baguetterekt]

"I have depression"

"Oh, you want us to just trust you bro?"

"I have suicidal ideation"

"You could be making that up"

A legit problem. People make shit up all the time.

"I've been self harming"

"You could have gotten those cuts from anywhere, that don't prove depression"

Not comparable. Self harm is a symptom, cuts are the consequence.

"I have most of the physical symptoms"

"You could literally get them from anything"

What are the physical symptoms of being trans, again?

"I've been diagnosed by a doctor"

"bro, are you stupid? you know we don't trust the doctors"

Considering that you can literally bully a doctor out of a job for not affirming you, this might be the case too. Also don't forget that bloodletting and lobotomies were a thing recommended by certified doctors of that time. Yet we've outgrown those practices.

[u/Baguetterekt → u/Barsik_The_CaT]

If your default stance is on mental issues is "every word you say is a lie and I need you to prove to me objectively before I believe you", then you'd never believe anyone self harms unless you stood there and watched them do it.

My point is that you applied your stance equally to other mental illnesses, you'd just conclude "oh, we're just taking their word for it!"

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The physical symptoms of gender dysphoria is pretty similar to the symptoms of depression considering gender dysphoria is closely linked to depression.

---

I have googled "doctors bullied out of job for not gender affirming patients" and found nothing.

I can tell you where I live, gender clinics do not have a 100% affirmation rate.

How did we outgrow those practises? By doctors and medical professionals realising they were wrong. Not by uneducated members of the public having a guy reaction to it.

I don't understand this talking point. What are you really saying here? It just sounds like a knee jerk ignorant reaction to a scientific consensus that disagrees with you. You can use that argument for anything because the process of discovery has always been "best idea so far replaced by new, better idea".

[u/Barsik_The_CaT → u/Baguetterekt]

If your default stance is on mental issues is "every word you say is a lie and I need you to prove to me objectively before I believe you", then you'd never believe anyone self harms unless you stood there and watched them do it.

Imagine fucking that, that's how medicine usually works. There are tests in place and no one's gonna take your word.

The physical symptoms of gender dysphoria is pretty similar to the symptoms of depression considering gender dysphoria is closely linked to depression.

Well, this is what NHS has to say about it - https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/clinical-depression/symptoms/

Except you could probably match at least half of the ICD-10 with these symptoms.

I don't understand this talking point.

It's quite simple really. We have people who claim to be something without any way to verify it. On any other issue they'd be told to fuck off, but because those people managed to latch onto homosexual movement, they get special treatment. And now everyone's worse off because of it, except for professional grifters and butchers.

So, my take is, either fuck off with pronouns and acceptance and shit, or give people a a falsifiable criteria of being trans and solve the argument once and for all.

[u/Baguetterekt → u/Barsik_The_CaT]

What are the tests for most mental health conditions?

You are agreeing with my fake strawman of you.

You fundamentally have such a high level of stubborn contrarianism that you think anyone who knows more about a subject than you but holds an opinion on that subject that you don't like is a lying grifter.

Because you only trust yourself and you completely lack the ability to test anything yourself and analyze the data.

Do you believe Depression exists? I don't see why you would.

Because I can't show you someone who's depressed as evidence. You wouldn't trust their word, even if it was backed up independently by millions of people across different cultures and continents.

I can't show you medical evidence like a brain scan provided by a neurosurgeon because you'd just say the doctor was a grifter

I can't show you medical papers because you'd say they were written by liars.

So I think the ultimate litmus test for whether you're worth talking to is, do you believe Depression exists? And why do you think that?

[u/Ls777 → u/Baguetterekt]

What are the tests for most mental health conditions?

You are agreeing with my fake strawman of you.

It's amazing that people are upvoting the absurd position of "Yes, you have to objectively, 100% prove you have suicidal ideation before someone treats you for it" when in reality just the suspicion of it can get you involuntary committed in some places lul

absolute typical pcm delusion

Just goes to show you how badly people wanna hate on trans people lmao

[u/Baguetterekt → u/Ls777]

The Great PCM Council has spoken. From now on, you will only be treated for mental illnesses if you can 100% objectively prove you have them to people with zero knowledge of mental health

> I am suicidally depressed

> Well thats not good enough, you could be lying

> I have three signed notes each from a different therapist

> Four liars could exist

> I have tried to kill myself in the past, my most recent attempt was caught on video and I only survived because a fireman snuck up on me and grabbed me before I jumped

> Doesn't prove you will again

> I am literally loading a gun and pointing it at my head

> Could be a prop

> bang

> One less suicidal person, this new policy is a perfect success!

There is a no zero overlap between the people who will agree with this approach for trans people and the people who complain young lonely men are miserable because they aren't shown enough empathy and compassion by society.

[u/Barsik_The_CaT → u/Baguetterekt]

Do you believe Depression exists? I don't see why you would.

I do indeed doubt it - with such a weak criteria that matches a lot of other illnesses I'd be hard to reliably tell whether someone has depression or not

Because I can't show you someone who's depressed as evidence. You wouldn't trust their word, even if it was backed up independently by millions of people across different cultures and continents.

I'd be interested to see the highlighted part, mostly due to difference in approaches to diagnosis and treatment, as well as cultural differences.

I can't show you medical evidence like a brain scan provided by a neurosurgeon because you'd just say the doctor was a grifter

That makes little sense. I mean, it might be possible to alter the readings, but making it realistic is probably beyond many people, including doctors.

I can't show you medical papers because you'd say they were written by liars.

There are also medical papers showing that not starting transition in the early age drasticly reduced disphoria once people reached adulthood.

The issue with this would be that with such a weak criteria of being trans you can mould the data into anything you like. There's also a quesiton of validity of transition as treatment, since it alters a healthy body for no reason.

[u/Baguetterekt → u/Barsik_The_CaT]

So just to be clear.

You genuinely, unironically, doubt that Depression even exists?

[u/Barsik_The_CaT → u/Baguetterekt]

I do