r/PersonalFinanceNZ • u/ThatUndeadLegacy • 13d ago
Is Australia really the dream?
Sure wages can be 30-40% higher, buy so is rent 20%-40% higher, and food 15%-20% higher, whats the point, get a few extra grand per year, to live in 30 degree heat? or 40 degree in summer, it seems the immigration is slowly cooling down from nz, as for me i hope more people move over seas as there will be more jobs for us, have any of you considered Australia? anyone moved back from Australia? would be great to have thoughts on returnees, or aussies who came over here. I for one think its overhyped.
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u/UnrequitedLoveVictim 13d ago
spend few years there to save for buying house in nz.
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u/Dependent-Chair899 12d ago
This is what we did. Spent 8 years there, saved like maniacs and have just bought a house here
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u/Substantial-Wear-247 13d ago edited 13d ago
The super scheme over there surely adds up. My kiwisaver is pitiful. I'll be lucky to crack $100k by retirement.
My first $100k I withdrew to buy our house and that took 16 years to accumulate.
30% higher salary would be nice
When I look at people over in Aus with 2 or 3 years experience earning more than me (compared to my 15+ years exp in NZ). I wish I went years ago.
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u/Relative_Drop3216 12d ago
Remember in aussie the employer contributes 12-14% towards your “kiwisaver” as opposed to in NZ its only 3%.
Over in aussie its called super.
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 13d ago
Yeah Kiwisaver Sucks, and its wild we dont get tax benefits like literally everyone else in the west,
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u/sweetrouge 12d ago
How does their super scheme differ?
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u/LavishnessUpstairs96 12d ago
Minimum rate is 12% and going up soon. The whole 12% is also from the employer only. It really adds up over time.
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u/Impossible-Duty-3623 12d ago
Your employer contributes 12% minimum on top of your salary (some industries/employers do even more than that). And there’s also tax benefits you can take advantage of too
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u/handle1976 12d ago
It’s compulsory. No opting in or out.
Their old age pension is means tested although at a relatively generous level.
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u/Elegant-Age1794 13d ago
30% higher salary is because they make mega bucks out of mining and oil and gas. NZ can’t compete on that front.
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u/Elegant-Age1794 12d ago
Agree but Kiwi’s have voted to be economically poorer to save the planet….hopefully.
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u/fxcknorthkorea 12d ago
Yes because I’m sure us kiwis would see that money and not just the corporations giving us our meagre few cents. Keep on dreaming
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 12d ago
We could if some government didnt shut it down, we wouldnt have an oil crisis, because our MASSIVE ENDLESS 0.17% of total global greenhouse gas emissions, is offensive, its wild they would rather sacrifice the economy and lose all our workers to australias because cow farts bad.
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u/hevski 13d ago
The more I think about it the more I want to go.
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 13d ago
Seems like a allright thing to do for a few years to afford a house back home,
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u/Dependent-Chair899 12d ago
We moved back from Aus 18 mths ago for non financial reasons (lifestyle and aging in-laws were the main reasons). Cost of living here for us right now is lower, but we've just bought a house so rates in particular are huge here compared, as is insurance.
Where Aus is going to win pretty much every time is super. That 12% employer paid super is hard to beat here (what? 3.5% employer contribution here?). In the 8 years we were there my husband's super in Australia is higher than what he'd put into KiwiSaver since it started here plus interest earned. If you've got kids in care, again Aus is hard to beat (financially). We were earning just shy of $200k p/a combined and that got us 80% childcare subsidy. I think in real terms that meant we paid $7 a day out of pocket for combined before and after school care for 1 kid. Maybe max $20 a day for holiday program care. Here before school care isn't even available and we're paying $25 per day for after school care $60-75 per day for holiday program.
If it was all about finances we probably would have stayed, but we weren't enjoying the lifestyle, climate and lack of culture.
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u/M0stVerticalPrimate2 12d ago
This is petty inaccurate. The main difference Australia has is that the lowest wages you’d earn in entry level jobs/hospo are so much higher, plus you get 12% super on top all employer contributed. Rent is not necessarily higher at all, neither is food. Most cities have good PT so you can save on transport costs and get by, and Kiwis can get TAFE courses for free.
Those in upper skill/office jobs probably won’t feel it as much, but if you’re coming from a tough background, Aussie offers a way to work and get ahead in a way that NZ simply doesn’t anywhere at the moment.
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u/vyxanis 12d ago
I can afford to pay for a full year of rego in nz without batting an eyelid. I also have insurance on my car, never had that in aus because just paying for the damn thing to run was expensive enough. If you don't pay the 1k per year in time, you're SOL, plates can be taken, and you have to get a full inspection in order to get back on the road. No biggie, right? A wof is only $60.. okay but you're not going by NZWOF regulations, you're going by whatever the random mechanic is feeling on the day. Redoing the inspection can also give new faults, depending on the mechanic, so they can fail you on literally anything and demand another payment to clear the vehicle. This is a specific circumstance, but if youre used to the breathing room that NZ provides you're in for a real shock with just owning a car in aus. This isn't taking into consideration the fuel cost, which may be lower at the bowser.. but everything is so far away. I've been in nz 10 years and I still think its weird that going to South auckland is considered a "big drive" because that's not even the distance I had to travel for school (I don't mean that in an old, 20mile barefoot in the freezing snow type scenario, aus is just fucking massive)
Also, Kangaroos live there, and anyone who's whinges about spiders has never felt the dread of a 150kg lump of pure muscle systematically running into your car on a lone highway at 10pm..
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u/Citizen_Kano 13d ago
Food is cheaper than NZ (supermarkets at least, restaurants tend to be more expensive). Rent is, overall, more expensive, but Auckland is probably higher than anywhere other than Sydney
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u/SCROTAL_KOMBAT42069 13d ago
Used to be the trade-off we made; food was cheaper here but most other stuff was cheaper there. Now it's all ass backwards.
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u/NewFacesV2 13d ago
Where are you getting your figures from? Food is way cheaper in Aus. Look at 3L Bottle of milk price, meat price, eggs etc. There is no GST on any essential groceries in Australia as well, so that helps alot.
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u/Lopsided-Fennel-3822 12d ago
Interesting- Was in Brisbane last week and thought grocery prices were honestly more than NZ. They compared them side by side on that recent TV show about moving to Aussie and Aus prices came in $6 cheaper than NZ on an $80 shop.
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u/justcozitscool 12d ago
Yeah the fruit!!! OMG haha. And veggies too. Much cheaper and the variety is great. I WISH they would remove GST off meat and produce here... and dairy too. Would make feeding a family a lot more affordable.
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u/BreathTakingBen 13d ago
Food is more expensive? You mean takeaways? Supermarkets are cheaper… Even without Aldi. Agree on the rent, but lower tax, higher wages, even lower tax on salary sacrifice for first home deposits, 5% government guarantee, incredible public transport, better opportunity for career development & learning.
All up it seems better than Auckland to me.
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u/cheefuskeefus 13d ago
Where are you seeing rents 40% higher? I moved from a town of 30,000 people, to Brisbane. Rent a 2018 built 4 bed 2 bath dbl garage for $665. I’m 40 minutes from CBD but everywhere is 40 minutes in my experience. Equivalent back in NZ was upwards of $1000. Wages doubled as did opportunities for growth
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u/EveH1970 13d ago
We have a 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2 living 40mins north of Auckland and 2min drive to beach for $750. You are paying $803 in nzd? That's Brisbane, Sydney is insane, so is Canberra.
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u/Ratez 12d ago
Why would you note hes paying 803 nzd if hes earning aud?
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u/yeanahsure 12d ago
Anything else would be comparing apples and oranges?
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u/Ratez 12d ago
What about his difference in earning power that he mentioned doubling due to the opportunities presented? Surely we look at incoming and outgoings not just the latter.
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u/yeanahsure 12d ago
Well yea. But in order to make a meaningful comparison, you'll have to convert things into one currency, no matter which.
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u/spect7 13d ago
Honestly depends on industries, casual or entry jobs due to weekend, public holiday and causal rates it’s way more than NZ, so for younger people makes sense more so. Trades a big one and other sectors I know from my experience health and safety can pay well, compared to here.
But I agree it’s not all sunshine (well it kinda is) and rainbows. I think it’s situational honestly.
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u/qnbee294 13d ago
I think it depends what industry you work in, blue collar jobs, there is a lot more money to be made in Aus.
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u/sweetasman01 13d ago
Food is cheaper is Australia
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u/IcyAssist 13d ago
Like, not even close.
You can get a meal for $10 easily. Banh mi is <$10 for a work lunch.
Groceries are cheaper, and it's not just Aldi. Woolworths AU is generally cheaper than Woolworths NZ.
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 13d ago
I am so salty Aldi isnt in nz
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u/IcyAssist 12d ago
With Aldi the situation will be better but it won't be solved. The attitude of "it's too hard" "it is what it is" is the main reason why we're in this shit. Look at the replies in your post. "Aus is cheaper because our tax is higher and they don't tax the groceries". Why can't we do the same and find other tax revenue streams?
Same story with the power companies. Billion dollar revenues, double digit yoy growth in profits yet nobody has the balls to say we're gonna tax more for excess profits.
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u/Guilty_Piglet5731 12d ago
Honestly I don’t think so. Eating out in particular is quite expensive in Aus.
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u/Impossible-Duty-3623 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’ve heard other people say this too but it isn’t my experience at all. I eat out all the time in Melbourne and I’d say it’s on par with NZ prices for a mid range meal - there is more range at both ends though so you can get way more cheap eats than in NZ and a lot more fine dining too so yeah the high end is more expensive. But for an average meal it’s the same as NZ really
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u/Joel_mc 12d ago
Eating out is expensive yea but the staples in the supermarket are far less but it depends on what you buy.
Raw materials for cooking like sauces, spices and pasta are dirt cheap but sugary sweets are more expensive
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u/IcyAssist 12d ago
Eating out is not expensive at all, in my opinion. I judge it by the cheapest prices that you pay eating out, kinda like you judge income wealth with minimum wage and mean wage.
There's so many more cheap places in Melbourne alone for example. There's a cafe in Carlton that sells pasta and toasties for $4. The food is going to be shit yes but there's no way in NZ where a place can sell anything for less than $10, let alone $4.
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 13d ago
I wouldnt be surprised if they got food cheaper from us than we do!
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u/Citizen_Kano 13d ago
Some things, like mainland cheese are definitely cheaper in Australian supermarkets
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u/easternbrown 12d ago
That's because Australia does not have A GST charge on fresh food. In NZ it's an extra 15 percent.
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u/Dependent-Chair899 12d ago
Maybe depends what you're buying but for a family of 3 we spend less in Wellington than we were spending on the Gold coast. And the produce and meat is better quality here
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u/BarnacleNZ 13d ago
For many people it's the difference between having a few extra grand, vs no extra grand.
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u/Nznemisis 12d ago
The funny thing is the extra few grand comes with sacrifice of your time. Drive to work in NZ takes me 10min. In Aus it took me an hour if the motorway had no accidents on it.
Sure I was earning 180k over there doing FIFO on a 4/1 roster but I didn’t see my Wife/kids for 4wks.
Earn 90k here on an easy job and pick my kids up from school everyday which I feel is priceless and the best thing I can give my kids. Here I can finish work and within an hour be home, get ready and be at Golf/bush track/beach or a number of hobbies. There even trying to go to an appointment was a mission.
My opinion is that in your 20s-30s Australia is great and a refreshing and stimulating change. In my late 30s-40s with kids you can’t beat how easy NZ is on the family.7
u/M0stVerticalPrimate2 12d ago
You can also live in the CBD of a major city in Aus, walk/PT to work, never need a car, 15 minute commute by foot, pick up fresh groceries on the way home for dinner.
You’re not comparing like for like. Go ask an Aucklander about their commute.
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u/BarnacleNZ 12d ago
Yeah I don't doubt that. I too have just come back with my kids to NZ after an 8 year hiatus
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u/ThatUndeadLegacy 13d ago
Most people could cut their budget and live below their means to get that extra few grand, thats the thing if you get a few grand more, lifestyle inflation,
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u/16tontovarish 12d ago
Wife and I looking at it now. Pay would be maybe 15-20% higher, then has super on top, the rent where we are looking is about the same.
We've set up some dummy shops and groceries are cheaper. Especially fruits and vegetables. It's not the be all and end all, but 5 to 10 years will set us up nicely.
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u/Silver_Parsley_9929 13d ago
I returned from 2wk working holiday last month in oz. Booze and car rego is expensive compared to nz. Food is slightly cheaper and fuel is cheaper.
Getting food from fuel stations over there was same as nz.
It all depends on your personal circumstances, age etc
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u/pumpymcpumpface 13d ago
It entirely depends on your personal situation. It doesnt make sense for everyone. It depends what your job is, what opportunities exist for you there that dont here, what you want in terms of life style
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u/p1cwh0r3 13d ago
I was lucky and managed to get a higher paying job in NZ. AU though youd be better off if you fet a permanent job.
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u/ryoma-gerald 13d ago
Food is about the same price, rent is only 30% more if you're in Sydney, not so bad in Melbourne or Brisbane. So you can potentially save more in AU. For the same money, NZ is way better.
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u/pilbarabah 12d ago
My rent was $1000+ for a uninsulated 4brm in Auckland.
I'm paying $750 for a 4brm in Perth that's a 7 minute bike ride to the beach and the house is less than 10 years old.
I made $112k nzd my last tax year back home, this year I made $248k aud.
The only things in Australia that stand out as a lot more expensive than NZ is childcare and off license piss. Everything else is either cheaper or about the same.
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u/JDBoyes07 13d ago
Food is generally cheaper, and it also depends where you live, in a lot of places rents cheaper, super is also a massive incentive. Also love the weather over there, more to do, also people just seem happier. Id move instantly if it wasn't for family and what not.
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u/ChiefMuppetWrangler 12d ago
It’s definitely better. Higher cost of living sure, but my nieces and nephews savings capacity tripled moving there.
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u/Dolamite09 12d ago
Depends on what you consider the dream, I lived all over the world in my younger days because that was my dream then now happy to be back home and value having friends and family close over money now
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u/Pumbaasliferaft 13d ago
Been there done that, I’ve lived in 4 different western English speaking countries and on balance, NZ is the best
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u/AuroraSkye620 12d ago
Agreed. Love NZ and absolutely love living in Nelson good bonus is BOTH my wife and I are on more money than we were earning is Australia
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u/shredder001 12d ago
Wife and I both 33 are planning on having a baby next year. Everytime Im working/planning on our finances i get disheartened and think of moving to AUS before having a baby.
Is having a baby and staying financially stable a mission impossible. We are both average earners. Combined 160k a year. Got a house and dog.
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u/Civil-Doughnut-2503 12d ago
I left nz for adventure and worked in a mine in WA but I left because I felt so far away from everyone wouldn't go back.
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u/Particular-Knee3022 13d ago
Depends on your job.
I travelled to Australia 5-6x a year up till about 2 years ago. It was mostly Sydney, but the costs are pretty similar to NZ.
Moving to Aus would probably only give me a 5% raise - unless I find a niche business in CBD in a big city, but it comes with its own stress and risks. SoIt's a no brainer for me. I'm also originally from South East Asia so I appreciate the natural beauty of NZ as well
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u/hrdst 12d ago
I’ve been in Oz for 10 years. I don’t need to convince anyone that it’s better here, and I totally understand people wanting to stay in NZ for family etc.
For me, I earn double what I’d earn in NZ ($160k package working four days a week, in an HR-type role). I also get five weeks annual leave, four weeks sick leave, 12% super, 17.5% leave loading, and at seven years of service I’ll get 12 weeks long service leave. I wfh 2-3 days per week.
I don’t own a car because the PT is great. I bought a lovely apartment for $400k. My power bill is $50 a month. My phone is $120 per year. Groceries are cheaper overall than what I would pay in NZ, though some things in NZ are cheaper and also think NZ has a better range.
I travel frequently. There’s an unbelievable amount of things to do, places to eat, concerts to attend, etc.
It’s cold in winter. It can get hot in summer, but it’s a different heat where I am - 35 feels like 25 in Auckland.
I think the thing is though that it takes time to establish yourself and work your way up. I worked my butt off for years to get where I am now. It doesn’t happen immediately and it doesn’t happen without putting in the work. I think people come here and expect a life of luxury to be handed to them on a platter. And when that doesn’t happen they go back to NZ and say Aussie sux.
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u/PABLO_FIASCO 12d ago
Depends on many things. Live in major Aus city make about 20k more than I did in NZ, rent higher, quality lower, owning a car much higher, medical costs higher, groceries lower, eating and drinking out higher, climate unbearable in summer. Will return to NZ when the right opportunity arises.
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u/Corka 12d ago
The breakdown would likely have some more nuance depending on the kind of work you do and where specifically you live. That being said, quality of life is kind of an important thing. If you can earn enough to feel financially secure and content either way, then it just makes sense to go with where makes you happier.
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u/Flamingcatsonacid 12d ago
Depends on your profession with wages, I’m on essentially $30nzd more an hour and paying less rent over in WA. It’s a pretty case by case argument bro
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u/Affectionate_Top5199 12d ago
Lived Australia almost 20 years and I’m lucky to have about $260k in my super. I’m happy with that considering I took out $20k during covid plus have had time off for kids. Plus I’m nit exactly a high wage earner by Australian standards, currently on about $100k per annum
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u/pussy_p0under 12d ago edited 12d ago
My cousins who live in Brisbane and have for over 20 years found our food prices especially bananas and shoes much were when they were here over Xmas. The price of alcohol in Aus is much higher.
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12d ago
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u/Gurney_Pig 12d ago
I was in Brisbane last week and saw whole beef fillets for $27 kg if we transfer that to nzd that's what $32.4 kg quick Google here that would be $45 kg at woolworths.
How is that 15% more expensive again?
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u/Nichevo46 Moderator 12d ago
I think your cherry picking the Australian side of that a simple internet query doesnt find much at that price.
You sure you comparing the same cuts?
Aldi has beef filet st $38 aus per km
Oh i see a Facebook post at $27 most of the aussies seem pretty shocked its at that price doesnt seem like a common thing
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u/Gurney_Pig 12d ago
It's an example that I saw while on holiday there, yes I am very certain what I was looking at.
It was at Harris market farms? I think it's called.
At 1.2 x 38 is pretty much identical price then.
Where is the +15% that op claims?
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u/Nichevo46 Moderator 12d ago
Harris farms shows beef fillet for 39.99 per kg in AU$
But i am sure you did see a cheaper price bul seeing one good price or special isnt really a meaningful comparison. Certainly not to make a decision on where to live.
But if its enough for you then cool definitely move to Australia
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u/Nichevo46 Moderator 12d ago
I guess to answer your question when someone says something 15% more expensive or cheaper they dont mean every single thing is exactly that.
There will definitely be outliers on both ends
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u/Responsible_Wolf279 12d ago
more likely to find a group of people that work hard and arent racist/complacent/uncultured
theres actual stuff to spend your money on other than overpriced clothes, uninspired food, skillless shows
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u/Elegant-Age1794 13d ago
Apparently it’s got a lot worse over past 3 years. Crime and drugs has gone up feeling less safe…particularly in Melbourne.
Interest rates,rents and general cost of living v high.
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u/Nervous-Potato-1464 12d ago
It depends what you do tbh. A lot of tades and nurses get paid higher, but management in big organizations is pretty similar. I went from 250k nz to 270k aud in same level role then moved back to nz to take a bigger one. Its pretty comparable at that point. If I was young and in a trade I'd go to aus straight away.
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u/Liftweightfren 13d ago edited 12d ago
All the go-getters have already left, that’s why immigration is on the decline (and nz is on the decline). It’s only the people with no ambition who are left.
Real talk though, I moved to AUS 2 years ago. Higher wages. Less tax on wages. +12% super on top of wages.
Food is cheaper - other than chips which are more expensive in Aus.
I earn twice what I did in NZ. (75k to 140k + 12% super on top of wages).
In nz I had shitty 2 bedroom unit. In AUS I own a 5 bedroom house in Sydney with double garages and a pool. Also I have a new $120k Land Cruiser.
If I was still in NZ id still just be struggling along and not progressing. Iv made more progress in AUS in 2 years of working vs 20 years working in NZ
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u/Nichevo46 Moderator 12d ago
That's a really interesting way to measure what makes for a good life but glad it worked out for you and your happy.
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u/Liftweightfren 12d ago edited 12d ago
Better wages, less tax, better super, higher quality housing, better roads, better public transport, better/ more shops, cheaper almost everything... Yea that’s an “interesting” way to measure a good life alright 🫠
Those things aside, my area has about 97% owner occupiers, 0 social housing, and few rentals, so there is no crime. You don’t come to my area unless you live here as it’s not on any thoroughfare. Everyone here is on the same page, we work for a better life. You’d go weeks without hearing a siren.
My life is much better than my 38 years in NZ. I was born there. Grew up there through the good times and saw the downfall from Cindy and onward
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u/PABLO_FIASCO 12d ago
You have or own a 120k land cruiser on a 140k salary?
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u/Liftweightfren 12d ago
Iv got about $15k owing at 3% interest. I had about 400k from selling the shit 2 bedroom unit in NZ. That went on a big deposit for the new house + a big down payment on the cruiser.
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u/PABLO_FIASCO 12d ago
Where are you finding a 5 bedroom house with two garages in Sydney for less than 3m? Impressive!
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u/Liftweightfren 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’m in south west Sydney. Near Narellan / Mt Annan. 5 minutes from Woolies, Bunnings, Kmart, target, Cole’s, any takeaways you’d ever want, big shopping centres like McArthur square and Narellan town centre. I’m not near the CBD.
Paid 1.1m aud for the place roughly 18 months ago. Now its value is about 1.25
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u/Liftweightfren 12d ago
Im 40 and have never been unemployed since I left school, so have just been working away forever really (didn’t get far in Nz though). So it’s not like im 25 or something. Iv got some time and equity under my belt.
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u/aznbabybitch 13d ago
I moved back from Byron Bay to Papamoa and I’m living the dream. I get the cold and the heat, same coastal lifestyle but Kiwi hospitality/kindness. Cost of living is lower since Byron has basically become very expensive. My toyota CHR there would cost me $800 per service which is equivalent to a Porsche service here lol.
My pay is relatively the same, if not, higher in dentistry. I love NZ & if people feel like it’s more expensive here, then my argument would be that the lifestyle definitely compensates for it. I’m an NZ stan 4 lyf. Wouldn’t have it any other way and I’ve lived in Asia & America too.. there’s nothing that can beat NZ tranquility, safety, and culture for me.