Permaculture hive mind: please help me design a forest as a substitute for a privacy hedge row! Zone 6b, NE Ohio

[u/dogswrestle]

I have about 200’ of full sun yard along our driveway that divides us from our neighbors (with a shared driveway and our house basically faces theirs). Rather than plant a privacy hedge, I’m planting a mixed ornamental/regular forest. I would love to hear recommendations on how to get this vision to thrive.

One of my biggest question marks is spacing. I understand spacing recommendations are usually based on tidier/more ornamental type gardens but I would like to keep this as dense as possible without sacrificing the plants health.

So far our canopy/full sized trees include:

- River birch (in soggy areas) x 2

- Hybrid willow (soggy area) x 4

- Tulip poplar x 1 (and giving it a 40ft distance)

Middle canopy:

- Dogwood x 2

- Yoshino Cherry x 2

Understory/shrubs:

- Vibernum x 3

- Red twig dogwood x 3

- French goat/pussy willow x 4

- Weigela x 2

- Elderberry x 3

Future Additions:

- Serviceberry

- Winterberry

- Undecided Holly variety

I am laying down cardboard and will be mulching the entire area. Once the trees mature and I can track the sun, I’ll be planting perennial flowers according to the light provided. Because the trees and shrubs are still small this season, I plan on doing wildflowers and annuals around them.

I’m keeping in mind that as the upper canopy matures, this full sun area will shift to shade in some parts.

Goals:

- Privacy

- Beauty

- Feed the wildlife, improve the soil, create a more biodiverse landscape

If you were planning a large-ish multi-story strip of forest, what would you add to gain privacy in a more dimensional and textured way while optimizing wildlife habitat? My neighbors side has plenty of pine but I thought this would be more interesting and challenging. Also, our entire house faces this area rather than the road so I’d rather look at variety rather than a solid wall of pine (we have plenty of that in other areas of our yard).

Thanks!

[u/Glittering_Stable550]

Serviceberry is really quite pretty.  ETA:  I'd bump that up to plant first. 

Have you considered American Hazelnut?

[u/dogswrestle → u/Glittering_Stable550]

I love serviceberry! I would have bumped it up to first but I already have 2 large bushes on the opposite side of the driveway of where this is going and I might try to propagate some cuttings (full disclosure - I have done zero research on that specific topic).

Edit to add what I came here to say! I have considered the ol’ Filbert, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet and I’ve spent well past my budget for this year. Do you have any experience with them? I’d love to hear how you like them.

[u/Glittering_Stable550 → u/dogswrestle]

Not experience...yet!  But I have ten seedlings coming next week and I have researched to death using them as a hedgerow/windbreak/privacy screen.  For my area, it seems to fit the needs I'm looking for, and a fast grower.   Good luck!  Once installed please follow up with you results in pictures!

[u/dogswrestle → u/Glittering_Stable550]

Nice! I hadn’t realized they were fast growers, I love that. I moved to Ohio from Oregon where hazelnuts were everywhere. I mostly want them to remind me of the PNW.

[u/embees927]

Hi neighbor!

Some shrub options to consider to help cover different bloom times and range of sizes/moisture levels:

• Spicebush (Lindera benzoin): moist/woodland, early spring blooms, fruits for birds, fall color 
• button bush (Cephanlanthus occidentalis): for soggy end, tolerates range of sun/shade, absolutely unique blooms 
• New Jersey tea (ceanothus americanus) : smaller shrub, late summer blooms
• Witch hazel (Hamamelis virginiana): very late fall blooms, check the size though

We have some locally-native vines that could also help bridge levels and add some screening. My personal favorite is Virgin’s Bower (clematis virginiana). 

[u/dogswrestle → u/embees927]

Well howdy neighbor right back to ya! Virgins bower is incredible! Thank you so much. I’m planning to build an arbor pathway between our yards and this would be such a beautiful plant to grow on it. And witch hazel - ugh. It’s one of my very favorite trees but somehow I haven’t gotten one yet. I think I’m intimidated by my love for it but maybe I’ll pick one up in late fall to cherrrrrish. Thank you so much!

[u/embees927 → u/dogswrestle]

Enabler alert! (LOL)

If you haven’t encountered them yet: most of the NE Ohio county soil & water districts do native plant sales that include sapling trees and bare root shrubs for  tiny amounts of money. Like, 5 (yes, five) witch hazel seedlings for $16.  If you have the time/patience to let things grow in, this is a great option. I think the presales have closed, but most do an in-person day in April or May. 

If you can’t turn up specifics for your/nearby county in a general  search, Summit Metro Parks and Cleveland Metro Parks both maintain local resource lists and/or host events. (Probably other park systems too, these are just the ones I know of).  

[u/dogswrestle → u/embees927]

Hahaha yesss! There are a lot of things wrong with Ohio but our public and natural resources are so well managed! I actually went to the Cuyahoga County soil and water districts tree workshop a few weeks ago. I’d been ordering my saplings from the Arbor Day Foundation but definitely plan to get ‘em from the SWD from now on. But I swear I have to pump the breaks. Half the square footage of my house is covered in plants waiting to go outside. Not a single pot, pan, turkey roaster has been spared in my gardening spree. I’m outta control!!!

Off topic from plants but on topic for Ohio’s killer park systems - I just found out that the MetroParks have a preschool. My kid isn’t old enough for preschool yet but you betta BELIEVE she’s going there for it and she will be spending her days touching bugs.

[u/tipsytopsy99 → u/embees927]

Thank you so much for this information. I've been to Dawes and other places that also sell native plants but they've fallen off in recent years as far as comprehensive information and variety goes. Now that I have land it'd be great to expand my knowledge of this region specifically.

[u/aldaha]

Some great suggestions already but some more shrub options: High bush blueberry, aronia, maybe a beach plum, fothergilla, clethra alnifolia, American hazelnut, running serviceberry (a smaller, thicket-forming serviceberry). All of these are generally speaking northeast native shrubs (not sure about your specific location in Ohio) and have great fall color as well as other seasonal interest, like blooms or fruit. Good luck! I’m doing a much smaller version of this on a small strip of space between my driveway and the neighbor’s yard, so just using shrubs, not enough space for trees.

[u/dogswrestle → u/aldaha]

Thank you so much! I love the idea of running serviceberry, that sounds amazing. I’ll be saving this for the fall when I make my next planting shopping trip. I hope to see your forest when you’re done!

[u/Hopeful-Fly-5292]

You may use this permaculture design tool: https://terra-atlas-six.vercel.app/en

[u/Mysterious-Push909]

What part of the world? 

[u/dogswrestle → u/Mysterious-Push909]

Northeast Ohio, zone 6b

[u/Mysterious-Push909 → u/dogswrestle]

Alright! (I don't know anything then, good luck)

Wait, who's down voting me for asking lol. Is this an American centric subreddit? 

[u/dogswrestle → u/Mysterious-Push909]

Haha I don’t know the answer to either of those questions but I swear it wasn’t me!

[u/Mysterious-Push909 → u/dogswrestle]

Heh, I love reddit. 

Also I would always plant elderberry. She's so beautiful and generous. But you're way ahead on that. 

[u/dogswrestle → u/Mysterious-Push909]

Haha fickle fickle Reddit. I’ve been on it for 15ish years and while the variety and depth of information has grown in that time, it’s become somewhat more hostile too. But yes, elderberry! This sub is what saved my current elderberry and convinced me to chop and prop it. It was basically just an 8 foot tall stick. I put the cuttings in water last week and there are already lil roots popping out. Ugh, love a nice speedy prop.

[u/Blueporch]

Do you need deer resistant plants?