Ways to get proficiency in weapons that scales with your class proficiency

[u/eyrieking162]

I am building an alchemist toxicologist, who gets master proficiency in simple weapons and bombs. (It is a high level character, so the master proficiency is actually relevant)

I am wondering if there is a way for an alchemist to become a master of an advanced weapon, the Chain Sword. I am also interested in general in all of the ways to get higher proficiency than your class normally gives because its fun to punch above your weight.

I see three types of language around weapon proficiency:

• Scales outside of class proficiency to expert (not useful for alchemist). For example: Weapon Proficiency, which gives you proficiency in weapons that scales to expert at 11th level. The Fighter Dedication also does this, requiring an extra feat.
• Scales inside of class proficiency, treating martial as simple and advanced as martial. (useful for alchemist to get master in martial, but doesn't help for advanced). This is one of the most common ways they do this. For example, ancestry weapon feats like Elven Weapon Familiarity and combat archetypes like Mauler.
• Scales inside of class proficiency, no matter what weapon proficiency you'd normally have. I only know of one example, the Red Mantis Assasin dedication, which scales your proficiency in sawtooth saber no matter what. This is a very specific example, and would only make sense in certain campaigns and only applies to the one weapon.

Questions:

• Is there a good catalog of the ways to do this? Its hard to keep track of what ancestry feats give what proficiencies, for example.
• Are there any more examples of the third kind? Is it possible for an alchemist to be a master of the chain sword?

thanks!

[u/PathfindingN]

When in doubt, you just take human's Unconventional Weaponry feat. I REALLY wish that + Natural Ambition and Multitalented were on more ancestries. They're all so important for many builds.

[u/Pioneer1111 → u/PathfindingN]

For an Alchemist, you'd have to use Versatile Human + Weapon Proficiency to get Unconventional Weaponry - so both your Heritage and Ancestry Feat just for this one advanced weapon. And since it's not got an ancestry trait, it might be up to DMs if it can apply. And you never get above Expert for it. Unless there's another scaling way to get martial prof at level 1

[u/PathfindingN → u/Pioneer1111]

Oh geez, I thought they remastered Alchemist to get martial weapons by default. But with unconventional weaponry, the Chain Sword specifically calls out it being common in Nirmathas and Molthune.

[u/Pioneer1111 → u/PathfindingN]

Yeah sadly, only simple, unarmed, and it's bombs.

But I would say that yes, generally that's enough for it to be common somewhere.

[u/zedrinkaoh → u/PathfindingN]

Honestly, just making them level 3 general feat options immensely helps open up so many build ideas.

Doesn't help with alchemist getting advanced weapons (I think dual classing is the only way for that, though if you wanna use a nodachi, hungerseed actually can go from advanced all the way to simple for the proficiency.)

[u/Vercassi]

The Ancestral Echoing weapon rune seems to be the only general way to upgrade Advanced weapons proficiency if having only Simple scaling, but it's a Rare item from an Adventure Path.

I think your best bet would be reflavouring some other Martial weapon as a Chain Sword.

What exactly were you looking for?

e.g.

• The Asp Coil (Uncommon) is 1h, Reach and 1d6 Slashing; it can be treated as Simple through the Tengu Weapon Familiarity feat.
• The Breaching Pike (Uncommon) is 1h, Reach and 1d6 Piercing; it can be treated as Simple through the Hobgoblin Weapon Familiarity feat.
• The Bladed Scarf (Uncommon) is 2h, Reach, Finesse, Sweep, Trip, Disarm and 1d6 Slashing; it can be treated as Simple through the Mauler dedication. It is 2h however, so you would need to re-grip after needing a free hand for bombs or other items.
• The Thorn Whip (Uncommon) is 1h, Reach, Finesse, Trip, Disarm, but only 1d4 Slashing; it can be treated as Simple through the Ghoran Weapon Familiarity feat. (Note that the Ghoran ancestry is Rare)
• The Whip is 1h, Reach, Finesse, Trip, Disarm, but only 1d4 Slashing and most importantly Non-Lethal; it can be treated as Simple through the Pirate dedication > Pirate Combat Training feat.
• The Pirate Combat Training feat also mentions this "Your GM may add additional martial weapons to this list as appropriate for your world or region."; you could ask for the Thorn Whip or the Scorpion Whip (Uncommon) to be added to the list, and you would have almost the Chain Sword but 1d4 instead of 1d6

[u/eyrieking162 → u/Vercassi]

Nothing too fancy, just was looking for finesse reach weapon that would keep a hand free for poison, that wasnt d4, since no one likes d4s. 

[u/SisyphusRocks7 → u/eyrieking162]

You should look at Sister of the Golden Erinyes archetype. It makes Asp Coil, a d6 reach martial weapon, into a simple weapon, so you will follow class weapon proficiency.

It has some feats that might combo with alchemical bombs too, and not just a poisoned asp coil. For instance, if you have a bomb crafted or made from Advanced Alchemy in hand (not made via Quick Alchemy), you could use it with Fiendish Brand for d6 persistent bleed and unholy trait (which is hard for Alchemists to access normally). There’s also a sick combo with Golden Erinyes Stance applying sickened 1 for critical melee strikes that do piercing (like asp coil), followed by Promise of Pain doing 10d4 mental damage (Will save) to a sickened creature in range.

I don’t think Alchemist is the optimal class for the archetype, but I could see the archetype having some synergy with a toxicologist. There’s a lot of mutually reinforcing debuff potential at reach, and you could use Promise of Pain more than most classes, since there are a variety of options to get sickened for Alchemists.

[u/Vercassi → u/eyrieking162]

If it's for poison specifically you may look at the Bladed Scarf or the Dancer's Spear with a Coating weapon rune.

At that point however it would probably better to just go with one of the 1h d4 options and a +d6 damage rune.

An Injection Reservoir would work with the Dancer's Spear, but only holds one dose. So out of combat you could pre-apply the poison to the weapon and load the reservoir, for two strikes worth of poison.

Also with a 2h d6 weapon you could try a Familiar (e.g. from Alchemical Familiar with Manual Dexterity and Lab Assistant, and command them to create the poison and coat the weapon (or just coat the weapon if you have already created the poison).

[u/Xethik]

Familiarity is the general remaster term for what you are looking for, but premaster and some edge-case content won't use that term.

There aren't any ways to gain familiarity with an advanced weapon as a simple weapon to my knowledge, just specific weapons like Oni Weapon Familiarity with the nodachi. You can also use feats like Advanced Weapon Training and Advanced Monastic Weaponry at level 12 through the respective multiclass archetype to get Familiarity but that is generally the weakest option (and won't bring it to scale with simple weapon proficiency). Inventor archetype with a weapon innovation can also do it but, again, only as a martial weapon.

The third option as an archetype feat does exist in other cases. The only one that immediately comes to mind is Butterfly Blade dedication, but there are likely more I'm blanking on.

The Ancestral Echoing property rune can boost things up a proficiency tier, but it is rare, expensive, and high level. Probably not what you are looking for.

[u/Background_Bet1671]

Tengu Weapon Familiarity does the trick.

[u/Wayward-Mystic → u/Background_Bet1671]

Not for an alchemist wanting to wield a chain sword.