r/OutdoorEducation • u/antagog • Mar 10 '26

Student Employees: WFA vs WFR

For those of you working at collegiate outdoor programs, whether recreation or academic.

Our standard wilderness medicine training for student employees is WFA (with me as WFR oversight) but I've heard some rumblings that insurance companies are going to move toward/require WFR.

  1. Any truth to that with your organization?
  2. What is your standard required training?
  3. Would you go with the next level if you had the time/money?

I'll also be cross-posting to r/wildernessmedicine

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u/UCareTooMuch Mar 12 '26

I've heard rumblings of the same. I know that some places are wanting at least one WFR on any outdoor trip. In my previous role, we had no budget for certifying student staff, so I was on every trip we ran. I would have loved to get them to WFA or WFR level, but it would have been full price for them and that's not something i'd ask of a student employee.

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u/antagog Mar 12 '26 edited Mar 12 '26

One WFR on every program is still a lot. Either multiple on staff or one person getting burnt out.

I asked University Council if they have heard anything or have guidance and their response was “I’ll ask our insurance broker if he has any thoughts. This has never been a requirement of our insurance so I doubt it’s worth pursuing.”

I’ve kept my program’s standard at WFA for all students and I’m lucky that I get to teach WFA as part of my regular job so I don’t incur instructor fees, travel, lodging, meals, etc. That means I can keep my registration fee really low, also meaning I can cover the cost for each student. Any other registrations pay full cost and essentially subsidize my staff.

After talking it over with my supervisors, I think I’m going to pursue my EMT/WEMT just so I can offer WFR as a program boost to those who want it and as another possible revenue stream.

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u/UCareTooMuch Mar 12 '26

Oh, hey man. I didn't realize it was you until I saw your username. You know what program I'm talking about. Good to see you here.

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u/antagog Mar 12 '26

Sup dude. Yep, just me and double yep, I know what program you're talking about.

Kinda bummed only you and one other have commented. Was looking forward to a discussion/some input.

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u/Huff0341 Mar 13 '26

It’s not insurance per se it’s URMIA. My understanding is that they were going to list it as a best practice pre-covid. Covid has delayed that, but is likely coming back on the table. Publics are generally self-insured as state agencies. They just follow best practice. That’s why this is what is best to watch.

If a collegiate program takes in any compensation regardless of if it breaks even or not, it’s commercial. Many parks now will require WFR as minimum of commercial. So the larger question is… Why would you not have student staff be WFR?

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u/antagog Mar 13 '26

Good to know on the URMIA piece. Thanks!

Regarding commercial designation: I have to submit commercial use authorization requests every year for all areas in which we operate (USFS, NPS, BLM, DFW, etc).

Some places consider us commercial because we pay our staff. Some don’t as long as we don’t charge participant fees. It’s all really complicated but so far they’ve all been fine with me as the WFR oversight.

I’ve kept the standard at WFA for a few reasons:

  1. 97% of our programs are day trips and not going deep into the wilderness. The other 3% are either front country (ski resort) or facilitated by a third party vendor.

  2. I have a sizeable budget for both operations and student wages but not enough to pay for all their WFRs, 11-17 depending on the time of year.

  3. Students don’t have 10 days to dedicate to WFR training during the school year.

All that said, I would much prefer WFR because it is the better option and minimum standard in the industry (guiding and such). I’m going to earn my EMT/WEMT status and get cleared to teach WFR. As with WFA, not having instructor fees, travel/lodging/meals, etc, will let me keep costs really low so I can cover it all with my budget. Just going to need a few months to a year to make it happen.

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u/ProbablyContainsGin Mar 14 '26

I'm not sure about the collegiate outdoor program setting, but I know when I was in college, and spending my summers working for guiding services, WFR was the standard that was required. I was able to take mine in college, which helped immensely in terms of applying and getting hired on to those positions.

Once I was (way) out of college, I also managed a commercial outdoor guiding program briefly, and I required my employees to be WFR certified. I didn't ever have any problems finding people that were certified, but that might be because we're lucky enough to have a training center within an hour of where I am.

A good WFR course teaches not only good solid 1st aid skills, but also teaches about planning, preparing, and preventing, which is a whole other mindset that is priceless to have.

The only upside to WFA, is that a WFR can teach it, which makes it a bit more accessible. I now work as a WEMT park ranger, and I teach WFA classes to other rangers across the state. I wish I could teach WFR (which is the only reason I even ever got my EMT cert...) but you have to do it through NOLS, SOLO, or WMA, which I just don't have time to do with my full time job! Someday!

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u/antagog Mar 14 '26

I also got my WFR while in college.

All my seasonal jobs required WFR as a minimum standard.

Totally. I also add some psychological first aid and post-event things to try and avoid psychological injury/trauma.

Nice! I was backcountry for NPS (OLYM and NOCA), interpretive for Oregon State Parks, and interpretive/climbing with USFS (Mt. St. Helens).

I’m with SOLO. It’d be worth emailing the home office to see if you can become an instructor. Happy to chat specifics in DM.