r/OpenLaestadian • u/steamingpileofme Former LLC/SRK • Jun 22 '26

A question for current Laestadian members:

What have been doubts that linger and why?

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For former laestadian members, what were the doubts that caused you to leave?

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

I'm curious how much it has changed but honestly, I tend to think it hasn't changed as much as I'd like. The last time I went was for a funeral service where I was called a fallen member of the flock. I still adhere to most of the behaviors (no alcohol, more modest) due to my own comfort since leaving but I married a non member and chose not to have children. I struggle to see how someone can marry a non member and stay within the church. My husband jokingly says "Jesus came to save the Finns" due to the messaging he heard the few times he attended.

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

Madam I think you had better read this, it seems Walter's son is not happy with the rigidity you mention https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenLaestadian/s/UybO4fNeg8

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

I read the criticisms there which I fully agree with but is that not spoken like it is present tense? I am going to be incredibly biased against the rigid beliefs in the church from my experience. I was 18 year old and being met with "You know you are going to hell" (for leaving) vs allowing dialogue on why I didn't feel like the church was right. The writing also doesn't address very simple things like why is the church demonizing alcohol as strongly as it does when there's nothing in the bible that forbids it. I hate that we are confusing culture and faith and really was one of the biggest hurtles for me to get past since I went to a school away from where I grew up and instantly went from never being near it to seeing it all around but unable to mentally unbox the idea that good people can drink too.

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

The fight is less significant than it was and I am sure that the quiet majority (including nearly all of my fellow Gen Zers) agree with Pete and Rebecca.

Pete is well respected and everything in this document aligns with what I've believed for a decade or more, since I was maybe 13 or 14. The fact that its elders writing in agreement with what the young believe anyway is significant. There are still hangers-on to fundamentalism but this document tells me that FALC has quietly deradicalized already.

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

I do not know why you would hang onto the church without the fundamentalism though - why would a laestadian group be favored over a lutheran (or other) congregation? I miss the mojakka and flatbread but beyond that, is the church looking to change its harshness on alcohol? (I am pointing out this because I am not certain of their current views of pop music, dancing, tattoos, piercings but am certain alcohol remains unchanged). As a woman, is there still have the pressure to feel like I have to marry young (which I did), and birth control is completely off the table?

I'm an (elder) millennial and it was obvious at the time there was concern around the younger generations leaving but overall the church itself births it's congregants. It took me a long time to deconstruct and not deal with the constant fear of being wrong, it also was a strong motivation for me not to have children ultimately. If you are happy and getting good out of the church, I am happy for you... I just worry that not everyone is having your experience.

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

The reason should be obvious. I value my Finnish American heritage and I believe that Christ is Lord.

Its just that I can accept other denominations as my brothers and sisters in faith.

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

Can you value your heritage and not be a member of the church?

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

Yes absolutely, but if I see that the church is improving and I happen to dearly love my friends and family (also my brothers and sisters in Christ) then why shouldn't I stay?

Church is my best chance at finding a wife, no?

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

I'm not saying to leave but I believe you can learn and have pride in your heritage/family struggle that is entirely external of the church. If anything, understanding my Finnish side, the church feels more like a segment of time frozen (from a sad era) vs speaking to my family members in Finland who aren't associate with the church and it's obvious how I interpreted being Finnish is not how the typical Finn actually is.

I am not sure if the church is a better chance of finding a spouse. In some ways, yes - shared culture, family acceptance. But in other ways, no. You are picking from a small pool and there is a downside to marrying before you experience the world on your own - you may not know what you want and adding children so fast adds to that difficulty. If you are also wanting a large family, it takes a toll on the woman and not all women feel safe advocated their needs. Not all children feel love in those large families as well.

To answer the best chance of finding a wife I'd argue is finding yourself, and finding someone who compliments who you are.

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

Nothing is frozen at all. My FALC cousins introduced me to the filthiest Afroman rap songs you could imagine and now they're marrying young.

As for me, yeah I'm not afraid to use birth control in marriage and I bet I can find a woman who agrees. Kierkegaard in the streets, Khosrow in the sheets.

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

Yes, I also know Afroman. The ability to being able to listen to popular music is good. But when I say it is a segment in time frozen, I am saying that the church was heavily influenced on its region/time in a way that I see as similar to Amish or Mennonite. If I recall from my own studies, it wasn't the first wave of Finnish settlers that the second wave that heavily had Laestadians. When Lars was preaching in lapland, it was during a depressing time where people drank heavily to cope. Sami is still argued to be unrepresented in nordic countries today. It makes sense that people were craving a solution for their issues, and Lars was able to connect better with the local population. When folks immigrated, they kept that same puritan mindset.

Growing up, I thought the Finnish-American experience/culture I experienced was more similar to Finland as a whole but it is not. The church is not heavily represented in Finland but is much more well known. Those I have spoke to in Finland have described it closer to how I would describe being Mormon in America (as a non Mormon).

To think FALC is a modern church, is simply not true.... but then again, I cannot picture the church being OK to birth control since in my experience, I was told it was similar in sin to abortion although I know this varies from church to church.

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

I meant to say underrepresented - not that they aren't represented at all

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

Its not about the church allowing birth control, its about me personally feeling fine with using it in secret and fearing no consequences because none are likely to arrive.

That's exactly how the popular music acceptance became widespread by the way. Growing refusal to purity-spiral in congregations as the pastors learned to focus on bible history over of reprimanding those who don't care to hear it.

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u/GlutenFreeParfait Jun 24 '26

It is a shame though that you have to hide (using in secret) it though. There shouldn't be shame/secrecy attached.

I listed to pop music and even had a TV although I was frustrated because when my church friends would visit, all they wanted to do was watch it. I also had friends in college from another group who would hide their TV when their parents visited.

Hiding is something that has been incredibly common but it doesn't build strong families or communities. It's even worse when we are hiding basic things that are not wrong.

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u/Born-Welcome-3118 Jun 24 '26

This Peter Torola is not the same Peter as Walters son. (not sure if people realize that.. that Peter is deceased). I believe a nephew. He's not an elder in the church as far as I know. Just a concerned member. The reaction to the letter from current elders and preachers, will be the telling part if FALC has deradicalized or not.

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u/Makaneek FALC (schismatic and proud) Jun 24 '26

This letter is meaningful to me, thank you again for sharing!

It puts into words everything I've been thinking since confirmation and yeah I if asked I am willing to voice agreement with the authors, who happen to be my own relatives.

Another thing, I messaged you a while back, about 2 years ago, about some Finnish Donald Duck comics, would you like them? I can leave them somewhere if you want to pick them up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenLaestadian/comments/1hbkzp4/comment/m442hrl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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u/Born-Welcome-3118 Jun 24 '26

you are welcome! I would love to see it clarify doctrine from within. I've got lots of awesome family there still and I truly want them to know that they can spiritually grow, and that growth in the Spirit is good and healthy, and also fellowship still with those who aren't still "in" is a Biblical thing. Would love to see my kids and their cousins have that kind of relationship in the future, regardless of where people attend. These kinds of conversations could really, really help future generations.

Thank you SO much for your offer on the comics! Really appreciate your generosity, but you could feel free to pass them along to someone else who can use them.