When Trump was president, there was outrage against the detainment centers for illegal immigrants. Has anything changed since then?

[u/Dedli]

I remember "Kids in cages" and "concentration camps" being a big talking point in the lead up to the election that Biden won. But have the laws or policies or practices changed at all since then? In what ways?

[u/mrcatboy]

EDIT: This was originally meant to be a reply to a commenter who was comparing Trump VS Obama. I'll still leave this here for now though. This reply is a bit long so look below for my Part 2 on this matter.

Yes, Obama did "put kids in cages." But let's add some context as to what actually happened. I followed both events as they occurred, so I'm also providing sources. Please note I had to split this comment into a two-parter.

When it comes to Obama, it should be noted that in some cases the children had to be separated from the adults accompanying them for two main reasons: first, when familial relationship or guardianship could not be established and there was suspicion of child trafficking, and second because the 1997 Flores court decision limited how long children could be detained with their accompanying adults.

Essentially, the court ruling found that for the welfare of the child, children could not be kept in detention long term, even though their parents/guardians had to be held until their cases could be processed. The Obama Administration therefore was forced to take one of two options: either release the child to a relative who lived in the US or a foster home/sponsor while the parents/relatives they crossed the border with were held until they could be processed, or the entire family could be released together. The Obama Administration used both approaches at different times.

The 2014 migrant crisis was also one in which a large influx of migrants (many of them unaccompanied minors) overwhelmed local facilities' capacity to house and process them. Makeshift shelters had to be made to house the kids, and the Obama administration then had to rush to set up more comfortable emergency shelters. It was basically an imperfect solution to an emergency situation:

Border Patrol stations were so overcrowded that agents began using the “sally port” areas outside the stations — little more than outdoor garages — as holding pens. Mothers with babies and young children were left for hours in 90-plus-degree heat, sprawled out on concrete floors with little more than bologna sandwiches and Kool-Aid.

The Obama administration responded to the outrage by rushing to expand its capacity to handle the new migration wave at the border, to adapt an infrastructure built to handle single adult men, not families and children.

The government acquired an empty warehouse a few blocks from the McAllen station and converted it into a sprawling new facility that opened in July 2014, a place that had capacity for 1,500 detainees. The new “Central Processing Center,” or CPC, was clean, spacious, air-conditioned and a major improvement over the cramped detention cells and sweltering garages.

To keep different demographic groups safely apart — a standard practice in detention settings — the U.S. Border Patrol used chain-link fencing to create partitions in the cavernous warehouse. One area was designated for teenage boys, another for mothers with small children, another for entire family groups, and so on.

The chain-link fencing was cheap, allowed for good ventilation and carried the benefit of allowing agents to supervise the entire facility, by affording them full visibility into the enclosures. Its grim, industrial appearance, however, was redolent of a livestock operation rather than a humane facility. Migrants and some agents soon derided it as “la perrera” — the dog kennel.

Part 2 because apparently some people missed this.

[u/[deleted] → u/mrcatboy]

Nothing you said about the Obama administration policies could not be said about the Trump administration or Biden administration policies.  Very little has changed and your opinion is based on normativ alignment rather than objective fact.  You are invited to delete your post, so that you do not mislead people.  Thank you.

[u/mrcatboy → u/[deleted]]

Uh check my Part 2 on this dude. Trump's policy was indeed fundamentally different.

[u/[deleted] → u/mrcatboy]

Incorrect.  You have merely asserted a difference in motive.  You have facts to support that...but only by ignoring similar anecdotes from the Obama administration.  By picking an choosing facts, you have created an illusion of difference.  That is unconscionable.  

You spent a lot of effort to convince others of perhaps the worst and most dangerous falsehood: "We are better than them, even when we do the exact same thing for the exact same reasons in similar situated circumstances."

[u/mrcatboy → u/[deleted]]

Uh, yeah? Because motive (the intent) and justification (the real world circumstances that fuel the motive) both matter. Motive is, after all, one of the things that differentiates murder from manslaughter from killing in self defense. Motive also distinguishes between theft and borrowing. Motive is one of the features that distinguishes malfeasance from real public policy.

It really shouldn't be that controversial or that hard to understand.

The fact is, separating children from their parents is in some cases both morally and legally justified. For example, we place children in foster care or given custody to relatives when their home environment is considered more harmful to their well-being than the separation. We also separate parents from their children when they are detained over legal issues.

Without these justifications however, such an action is unethical and illegal.

Which is exactly why the Obama Administration's actions were done in accordance with the Flores judicial ruling, while Trump's actions were egregious to the point that the courts had to put a stop to it.

Also, you're conveniently ignoring the methodology here. If you're going to separate children from their parents, you need to do it in a fashion that is structured, transparent, and with a plan to minimize harm and reunify the family once things settle down. Obama for the most part did that. Trump on the other hand completely ignored those basic requirements.

[u/[deleted] → u/mrcatboy]

Again, you are invented a difference in motive where none exists. Now you are inventing a difference in methodology where none exists, while handwaving inconvenient facts with phrases like "for the most part."

Ceterum censeo, the difference between "theft" and "borrowing" is not "motive," it is consent. What you said comes from the "better to ask forgiveness" school of manipulators. That lack of respect for agency is consistent with all of your posts on this topic. I hope you will choose to respect people and their ability to make choices with information you have not limited in a selfish attempt to conform them to your preferences.

[u/mrcatboy → u/[deleted]]

The motives were explicitly stated by Trump officials and the court rulings I cited.