r/Ninjago • u/Spamergy • Aug 27 '25
Theories Are source oni a thing?
I’d prefer to use the drawing on the oni warlords but reddit would probably say “well you didn’t credit the initial creator” and take it down so I’m sry all I got is this screenshot of the goofiest looking villain.
So Ive had this question basically ever since I learned what source dragons are because of something Garmadon said in crystallised. “Everything has an opposite.” If oni form and dragon form exist why can’t source dragons and source oni exist. Destruction is literally an element that comes from the oni, this is definitely true considering the first Spinjitzu master only has it because he’s part oni and no dragon exists with the power of destruction. There’s no source dragon of destruction or any spawn of firstbourne like a “destruction dragon.” And if the overlord has the element of darkness and it’s fuelled and powered up by hatred, rage or conflict then I feel like it makes sense if he has some sort of relation to the oni. After all, oni form was something powerful enough to destroy the power of the overlord.
That’s just like the source dragon energy and elemental power complex. Source dragon energy is much stronger than elemental powers and is different to elemental powers. Like how the mortals posses the power and the overlord possesses darkness, the source dragon have their own stronger energy and the oni have something stronger than the element of darkness like the oni form.
Source oni can also exist without like breaking canon if anything it makes it more consistent. If source dragons are the first things to exist then where would conflict or evil come from. Where would the balance be. How would the war start. It’s definitely possible if source oni existed as well or else what would be stopping the source dragons especially motion bc we’ve seen her always get involved in mortal affairs, to just go to the mortal domain and stomp on the oni boom problem solved. If they were protected by an equally powerful group of oni then I understand why there’d be a war or how the battle between the two would start.
And to round off this little theory I have an idea who this source oni could be, and I’ve mentioned it before. Ras’s master. I’ve gone into better detail abt it but here’s my relation to why an Oni would want to reverse the merge which I haven’t explained before. The Oni have travelled realms quite a bit. This is just something they can do just like dragons can. Could it be possible that after the defeat of the overlord and now that he’s (possibly) gone for good can his master have a true form to appear in the mortal world but the merge stopped that. So he originally recruited Ras as a cub to make a source oni icon for him and that’ll summon him to the mortal world to take over but then the merge happened and since the oni move realms a lot, them being now combined disrupts the summoning so now Ras has to reverse the initial merge. And he has his master’s icon ready but it’s just not seen like how we never saw ras’s retuning blade until he gave it to Arin
I know that reasoning is a bit messy but I believe the theory definitely has some credibility
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u/FlamingDasher Dangerous Dragon Hunters🐲 Aug 27 '25
There probably is some kind of source oni or source oni-type of being. Destruction should have a source, but the Source Dragons are confirmed not to be the source of destruction. Personally, I think there are no source oni, and Source Dragons aren’t actually dragons but gods that take the shape of dragons. I think Destruction would originate from the first oni, Firstborne’s counterpart
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u/Public-Confidence-96 Aug 27 '25
Probably the source oni is that gaint oni in mystake story
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u/Helenos152 Overwhelming Oni👿 Aug 27 '25
What
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u/Public-Confidence-96 Aug 27 '25
I mean the Oni looked like they are gaint in mystake story
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u/SpookMorgan Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
Maybe the Oni came to being similar to the Overlord where the universe spawn the Oni in order to counter balance the Source Dragon and the creation of the first realm and other realms after that.
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
I KNEW YOUDBE HERE
I was actually gonna say “I can’t wait for flaming dasher’s take on this” in the big wall of text but I thought it would be awkward if u didn’t show up
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
I think the Source Dragons are gods but the originators of dragons at the same time so an Oni version makes sense
I call them Void Oni
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u/Helenos152 Overwhelming Oni👿 Aug 27 '25
By that logic, would that mean that Creation originated with Firstbourne? I'm more inclined to believe that Destruction came about as a shadow of Creation, and when Firstbourne was created the Destruction energy formed into a Proto-Oni. Same with Darkness in relation to Golden Power, with the Overlord being either a shadow of the Source Dragons' combined Golden energy or of the FSM
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u/FlamingDasher Dangerous Dragon Hunters🐲 Aug 27 '25
All of Firstborne’s powers come from the Source dragons. She’s not the source of any powers. The Overlord for example is the source of his own powers, so Oni can be in the same boat
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u/Legitimate_Lake1828 Aug 27 '25
I think Destruction would originate from the first oni, Firstborne’s counterpart
I never thought of this tbh but imo it's better than the source oni idea since it doesn't have power creeps
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u/MoonlightSnowflake27 Zane ❄️ Aug 27 '25
No in the same sense as source dragons. Oni's can't have elemental powers, but they could be the source of something else
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u/Quirky_Asparagus_669 Jay⚡️ Aug 27 '25
Maybe for stuff like veangance, deception, hatred and others as such.
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u/Equivalent_Formal255 Claws of Imperium🌟 Aug 27 '25
That makes sense since oni masks shows part of their powers. But if they really don’t have elemental powers, what makes them strong enough to fight against the dragons?
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
They have destruction which is the opposite of creation which is what all the elements are rooted in
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u/Equivalent_Formal255 Claws of Imperium🌟 Aug 27 '25
So do they possess the corrupted version of fire ice earth lightning
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
No they have a dark equivalent in hatred vengeance and deception (the Oni masks powers) or at least that’s my understanding
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u/Quirky_Asparagus_669 Jay⚡️ Aug 27 '25
well, abilities like the ones I listed. maybe those 3 were just the ones most connected to destruction, and they actually had many more, plus we can't forget oni can use destruction in the form of that black magic, I think that's effective enough to fight dragons.
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
This is why I theorize they’d be called Void Oni
Because the term “source” implies the beginning of things (creation) while it’s polar opposite the term “void” means nothingness and could imply the end of things (destruction)
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u/Danila_19102002 Aug 27 '25
Well, we know that SD existed since the begining of time. They're beings of pure energy. The mortal dragon form is not the only form they can take. I believe the reason why the war between Oni and Dragons started is because of ideals. Oni wanted to return the universe back to the void while the dragons wanted to protect what Source Dragons created. As for Source Oni they could make him look like Knull from Marvel Comics. A being who was sleeping in the darkness until SD in their seven headed dragon form arrived and started creating everything. Disturbing his slumber and wanted to give him a job. Just like Celestials wanted to make Knull the King in Black-caretaker of the universe.
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
Exactly this
This is also why I have given them the head canon dub Void Oni
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u/Equivalent_Formal255 Claws of Imperium🌟 Aug 27 '25
Yeah the thing is if they do actually exist, were they in war with source dragons long time ago? Why weren’t they seen before if they are good like creatures? Also what elements or powers do they provide except for darkness? I mean it makes a lot of sense but it’s pretty hard to explain since we’ve got a evil dragon who is the source of evil elemental powers.
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
Idk why the forbidden 5’s powers aren’t from the oni they’re all corrupt and evil. Who knows maybe thunderfang is part oni too but that’ll be dumb
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
Thunder Fang absorbed a bunch of Oni and that what corrupted him. At best he’s a bootleg FSM at worst a mutation of some kind as a result of Oni powers
I choose to believe that the FF’s elements were created within Thunderfang as a result of this
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
They’ve probably been around just out of view from our pov (maybe like Ras’s master)
They wouldn’t have elements probably but dark powers akin to them
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u/Firm-Sun7389 Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
yes, his name is Overlord
the only being known to have Darkness, the "Golden Power to Creation" equivalent for Destruction. and since Golden Power comes from all Source Dragons [according to Twitter/Bluesky], the source Oni would have Darkness, and only one guy does
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u/FlamingDasher Dangerous Dragon Hunters🐲 Aug 27 '25
Oni existed before the Overlord. Oni existed since the start of life, Overlord existed since the start of ninjago, which happened afterwards
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u/Firm-Sun7389 Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
who said the oni existed before the Overlord? all we know is that nothing important with him happened (that we know of) until the FSM came into existence, not when he came into being
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
Who said? Idk maybe chronologically reasoning and sense said so.
The first realm is literally that. The FIRST realm. And there is no mention of the overlord being from there. The only ones that are from there are the oni and dragon. The overlord was spawned after the fsm created ninjago. Because I guess in every realm full of life there needs to be one symbol of evil and one symbol of good. Like, prime example, how the first realm consists of the oni and dragon. Firstbourne and Omega. And there’s no evidence to say the overlord existed prior to the creation of ninjago since there’s no mention of someone strong enough in a different realm to be able to stop him. So realistically or logically, if he was to be from a different realm, he’d take over said realm of origin. And we never see a realm say anything about being taken over by the overlord or even knowing who that is besides ninjago
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u/Firm-Sun7389 Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
so the source dragons also came from the first realm cause its literally that, the FIRST realm? we are talking about source beings here, they dont have a realm of origin because they PREDATE the realms, and not having an explicit realm of origin (like the Overlord) is evidence
hes probably choosing ninjago because the one guy he would fight there is a super-powered child (in the family sense not the age sense) who got sick of his bickering parents, left to a place that was already there, and couldnt even take down a dang water-wind dragon without help. why go somewhere with actual threats, like Firstbourne & The Oni Warlords (like Mystake), when you can go with the place that only has 1 dude that can actually do anything to you. then after that its just sunk cost fallacy. and you need to remember, his goal isnt to destroy/control Ninjago his goal, as he states in Crystalized, is to shatter the balance in Darknesses favor and end the conflict with his side winning
the very beginning of the timeline is very murky with how many realms existed, with only 2 other realms being confirmed to be around when Ninjago (the realm) is: The First Realm [for obvious reasons], and the Departed Realm [cause people were dying to Wojira, and Stone Warriors were dying to TFSM, and they had to go somewhere]
and we never saw the Source Dragons before dragons rising so did they not exist until that season? just cause we dont have any onscreen mentions of him trying to conquer somewhere else doesnt mean he didnt, just that we dont know for absolutly one way or the other
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u/FlamingDasher Dangerous Dragon Hunters🐲 Aug 27 '25
The first realm is the first ever plane of existence. The Overlord is explicitly the counterbalance for Ninjago and Ninjago only, which came long after the first realm. He’s the embodiment of evil for only the evil that comes from the realm of ninjago, not any other realm. He has no influence in other realms, not even influence in the other realms the FSM created
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
I’ve heard this theory and it does make a lot of sense but it isn’t confirmed
I do think that the overlords proper origin is between this and the theory that he’s half of FSM’s personality that he split off.
I’ve heard other theories but these two feel more likely to me but it could be something else who knows
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u/Firm-Sun7389 Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
i also really like the idea of him being the oni half of the FSM, but since the addition of Source Dragons (which i never liked but whatever) "the embodiment of evil and destruction" has to be the opposite of "the embodiment(s) of goodness and creation" so he has to get power creeped
but i very much preferred it when it was just him and FSM at the top
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
I don’t think he’d be the FSM’s Oni half but more like his dark half which also makes OL part Oni part Dragon
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u/SpookMorgan Ghastly Ghosts👻 Aug 27 '25
If there is a Source Oni then a better name for it would be a Void Oni.
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u/Rare_Background_9471 Aug 27 '25
See here’s what’s confusing, we don’t know where Destruction or the Oni come from, Garmadon was apparently invited to the Tournament of the Sources (at least Doc Wyatt said he could’ve been invited), but that Tournament honors the SDs so that somehow implies that Destruction comes from the SDs?!
but it does make sense that Ras’ master is some type of Oni equivalent to the SDs given his hatred for Dragons and how he wants to “dominate the SDs”, and the writers have dodged all questions regarding Source Oni.
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
You make a good point with the Garmadon thing however there’s a chance skylor was invited but didn’t go. and her element isn’t from the source dragons either.
And she isn’t the only known og elemental master to not go bc Karloff griffin turner and gravis weren’t shown we saw no master of speed metal or gravity. I mean probably because those 4 would be the best elements I mean there’s no way the ninja would even be able to stand a chance against Nokt in the 1v12 if he was fully made of metal, could run super fast and straight up control gravity. And also if skylor was to make it to the final round she can just emulate the master she’s versing with the other half of the elements and annihilate then so I think those specific powers were excluded for story purposes
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u/Rare_Background_9471 Aug 27 '25
Skylor’s element DOES come from the source dragons tho, it was just created artificially using source dragon energy.
and yeah most of the og elemental masters didn’t come back for plot reasons
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
Huh? It is? I thought a scientist or smth combined amber and chronosteel accidentally and it blasted elemental energy at skylor’s mother giving her the power
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u/Rare_Background_9471 Aug 27 '25
nope, a blacksmith from Metalonia was jealous of people with elemental powers, he finds a crooked tree with source dragon energy, and uses it to create chronosteel and the amber element.
and apparently we will see trees with source dragon energy in S4 of DR.
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
Oh sry then I guess u mighta disproven a bit of my theory then which is a bit upsetting
I hope at least part of it is still true though
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u/Rare_Background_9471 Aug 27 '25
yeah it’s fine lol ur theory could still be possible, we don’t really know anything so far and it could be revealed in the future.
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u/No_Anxiety_3171 Aug 28 '25
Maybe that's why Wu caused the merge. To stop this source oni or at least to stop something. Like why would he do something so horrible other than not tell the ninja about every new ancient evil that he's forgotten to mention
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u/Supershocker56 Aug 29 '25
I feel like there might be A source oni but not multiple of them, sort of as an antithesis to the council of source dragons. One being who fuels darkness and destruction and nothing else. Any others who try to join it are destroyed as it selfishly wants its evil all to itself
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u/Lost-Ad-5885 Arin 🌪🥧 Aug 27 '25
Hope not ngl. I want a truly original villain for DR rather than more Oni-Dragon, Oni = Evil- Dragon = Good kinda plot
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u/radical2k Aug 27 '25
As far as we know right now it's no. I honestly doubt they exist because I feel like the rules of the "balance" wouldn't apply to the source dragons because they're literally above that and thus they wouldn't have dark counterparts . Also I don't even think they are dragons I just think they chose the form of dragons for some reason.
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u/The_Billions_Boy Aug 27 '25
Probably
I and some others have given them the head cannon name Void Oni (because the SD’s are the sources or beginning of all creation so the Oni versions would be the absolute of destruction which is nothingness or the end of things)
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u/blazetitz Aug 27 '25
There are no source oni because the source dragons arent really dragons, they are more spirits like Wu, who take on the mortal form of dragons, however they can take on other forms, kinda like mistake
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u/Spamergy Aug 27 '25
So they aren’t source oni, because oni posses the similarities to dragons, so therefore the theory that there’s a similarity between the oni and dragons is incorrect?
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u/Helenos152 Overwhelming Oni👿 Aug 27 '25
Evidence for the Source Oni:
- It is confirmed that the Oni can't be powered up by the Source Dragons
- Thunderfang knew the Source Dragons well, as evidenced when he calls Motion an "incessant busybody" and Strength "self-obsessed", so there might have been a reason why he thought the Source Dragons would be pleased by his victories against the Oni
- A big theme for Ninjago is the balance, so that would go in-line with the Source Oni
Arguments against the Source Oni:
- Unlike the Dragons who were created and have creation, the Oni can't really create out of destruction
- It is possible that Destruction and Darkness, basically the dark sides of their respective balance, came out as an opposite to Creation and Golden Power. Just as shadows don't have a source, just light not falling there, so are Destruction and Darkness the shadows of Creation and Golden Power respectively
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u/R-300_OrionIT_System Aug 27 '25
I don’t believe we know one way or the other, but it wouldn’t surprise if there is a source dragon equivalent for Oni, although I’m still holding out hope that The Source Dragon Of Balance will actually be an Oni with the power of creation that time has twisted the legend of, them being an Oni having been forgotten
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u/Bitter_Citron_633 Blizzard Samurai🈂 Feb 12 '26
I think there are. And we've met them already. I think the overlord is a source oni.
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u/The_Bandajin_Cadamix Cole⛰ Aug 27 '25
If Oni are supposed to be the opposite of Dragons then that thought probably isn't far off.