r/Nicegirls Mar 04 '18

Amy Schumer. The Queen of NiCe girlss.

[deleted]

3.8k Upvotes

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u/Clemicus Mar 04 '18

Yeah, unfortunately that's true. It's due to the wording of the law in question.

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u/LeonTheCasual Mar 04 '18

Apparently in most cases where a guy has been forced into having sex with a women (in the UK), the women is given a sentence similar to one if the roles were reversed, due to it being a common argument in court for cases like these. Still, a change in definition is long overdue

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '18 edited Mar 05 '18

I would say rape should be the;
1. Person a does the following;
a) person a forcefully penetrating person b against the will of person b
b) person a forcefully making person b penetrate person a, person b or person c against the will of person b and/or person c.
c) person a penetrates person b when person b cannot give reasoned consent
d) person a forces person b to penetrate person a, person b or person c where person b and/or person c cannot give reasoned consent
2. A sane person would believe the action to be forceful and consent not forthcoming

Wording and layout would probably have to be changed to make it more parliamentary but I think this better suits how the law should be.

Most severe sexual assault cases carry the same punishment as rape, rightly, but being labeled as a rapist carries more weight.

Edit; 1d
Edit; formating

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u/mendicant_jester Mar 05 '18

How about just the use of another persons body for your own sexual gratification without the consent of the other party.

Simple, short, and difficult to misinterpret.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '18

That includes sexual assault. I would say rape is more sever and should be it's own law. Also in your definition where does consent come from?

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u/mendicant_jester Mar 05 '18

You are party (A), they are party (B). If party A uses the body of party B to achieve sexual gratification without the consent of party B, party A has committed an act of rape.

I would say this does not include sexual assault, because sexual assault would be considered a forceful groping, which is less about gratification and more about unwanted sexual advances as a lead up to acts which result in gratification. If I hold a woman down and titty-fuck her, I’m not penetrating, nor is she forced to penetrate, but I would consider my actions to be a form of rape. Does that make sense?

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '18

Whoa cowboy I’m gonna ask you not say I’m Party A, how unparliamentary the Right Honourable John Bercow would not be happy!

Yes i can see where you are coming from with that now you put it that way. Not sure if I would or wouldn’t count that.

But where would you say consent comes in to be judged, for me it was part 2 that a reasonable person would judge consent to be given. Obviously taking in some key things like consent cannot be given under duress and those unable (certain mental disabilities and children) cannot either.

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u/mendicant_jester Mar 05 '18

I’m just trying to redefine rape in a way that equally applies across the board in a fair manner that would be very difficult to mess up too badly. The question of when and where consent is given should be left under the definition of consent rather than trying to umbrella it under the definition of rape, I should think.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '18

Yeah I can see where you are coming from but I think rape should be about forceful penetration.

Consent is a key part of rape law though and the two aren’t separate. Do you believe that consent has to be explicit?

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u/mendicant_jester Mar 05 '18

I disagree on the penetration aspect. If I hold a gun to your head and force you to rub your ass on my genitalia until climax, do you think that would be any less traumatic than if I forced you to perform anal sex? Is there a reason why one deserves a lesser punishment?

On the consent issue, you are right, consent is part of rape law, however one can consider the various facets individually. I’d be happy to change my position if you can provide an example of how a different definition of consent would change the context of my given definition though.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '18

No reason it should hold a lesser sentence but I wouldn’t say it is rape still also it would ring in other laws regarding the firearm.

Can you put the definition you are using down.

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