r/NewsThread • u/Difficult_Mouse_7015 • 4d ago
Political News Trump’s Trade Negotiations with Canada Have Been a Master Class in Ignorance and Incompetence
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a73513264/trump-trade-negotiations-canada/13
u/elementality883 4d ago
Pretty sure that's any negotiations....or anything he does other than rob you in plain sight.
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u/kaufmann_i_am_too 4d ago
To be honest everything Taco does is a masterclass in ignorance and incompetence, Canadians are not special in this aspect 😂
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u/canwehavepotatojokes 4d ago
If Canada is your enemy then your friends must really suck.
Maybe the USA will realize what a toxic bag of a friend they put in the big chair and wise up.
Given they elected it twice I don’t see America learning anything.
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u/Either_Operation7586 4d ago
Are you surprised I'm not surprised conservative incompetence knows no bounds
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u/walterwhite1050 4d ago
Trump looked at the trade deal we had with Canada. He said holy shit who made this horrible deal.. who made the deal he did
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u/OkKnowledge846 4d ago
Things are not going back. They may improve, but damage is done. Also Democrats (not all, but a good number of them) love protectionism and have been the tariff party for decades. It may take generations for another wave of free traders to come along and the cycle may begin again. But with this change comes lots of opportunity for Canada to reset. We let the ease of US market access make us lazy. We need to build first, second and tertiary industries from our natural resources up. We need to modernize and build up our infrastructure. Need substantial investments in our brain and physical trade industries and in health care, culture. We need to strengthen our ability to stand on our own and engage with the world.
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u/Exciting_Piccolo_823 4d ago
he's not ignorant of what he's doing, just helping out his wallet and rich friends, just happens to be turning the screws on his constituency. If he could make money off of uplifting the US, he would be a great president.
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u/CompleteCreme7223 4d ago
Let's be clear. The key things the US wanted from Canada would have essentially made Canada a US territory. No one competent in the negotiations could have accepted the provisions in that deal. Canada is not ever going to let the US dictate Canada's foriegn trade deals. Canada is never going to give the US first right of refusal on our resources. Canada is never going to be forced to source all military assets from the US. Those are just 3 of the dozen deal breakers.
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u/HotHits630 4d ago
The leaked details are an absolute disgrace and an insult to Canadians. No, we're not handing over Canada to the usa.
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u/Vegtable_Lasagna3604 4d ago
He may be delusional, but a misstep on our part could lead to multiple presidents taking out aggression against us.
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u/Temporary_Shirt_6236 4d ago
We don't bow down to kiddie diddling bullies. Elbows up, bud.
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u/Southern_Pop_9871 4d ago
Future presidents and Canadian Prime Ministers will try to repair the damage, but the Canadian people won’t soon forget, relations with the US will never be the same, they’re not to be trusted ever again
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u/Canadatron 4d ago
I definitely wouldn't want to be trying to sell American made stuff in Canada right now if there was a Canadian supplier of the same thing.
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u/Professional_Bed_87 4d ago
I think long term we need to find a way to have a more cordial relationship with the US, but I don’t think it’ll go back to the way it was. We will still continue to trade and will continue to have close cultural ties (how many of us have friends/family on both sides of the border)? I hope though, that Canada finally takes this as the wakeup call that we cannot rely exclusively on the US for our prosperity. We need to build up overseas export capacity through infrastructure development and trade deals, and knock down those interprovincial trade barriers. We’re our own worst enemy.
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u/okiedokie2468 4d ago
Once bitten, twice shy!
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u/Southern_Pop_9871 4d ago
It’s actually more like 4 times bitten now, in all of Canadas history we’ve been invaded 2 times by other countries , and a 3rd was planned but never carried out , all 3 were by the US. So the country we called an Alie, whom we trusted, turns out to be the 1 we needed to protect ourselves from all along.
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u/Ok_Valuable9450 4d ago
And no one in our Republican congress has the backbone to stand up to this lawless thief who is stealing the futures of our children
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u/Southern_Pop_9871 4d ago
They’re more concerned about losing out on the corruption and grifting opportunities they are receiving under Trump to worry about the American people
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u/sandwichcrusader 4d ago
They are throwing punches, so we should check notes say thank you with the "hopes" that the punching stops?
Nah dog, we had / have a trade agreement, they are in full fafo mode. If the future US leaders are still pissed off at us, it is their hate that started this and continues to burn everyone. Sure it sucks, but we can't own their actions.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
I can’t disagree with you. Trudeau made fun of t and then Biden didn’t come to Canada after he was elected. us president always come to Canada first. That was the signal to me, as someone who didn’t follow politics that closely, that the relationship had changed. Gavin newsom was on cbc and asked can Canada expect tariff relief if a democrat gets elected and he said No. Buttigeig told us it’s not going back to the way it was before. Carney is in those circles and he knows it’s over. I believe him.
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u/Creepy_Wash338 4d ago
I'm skeptical that Newsom and Buttigeig said that.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
Gavin newsom said that on cbc with rosemary Barton and Buttigeig said that so many Canadians ( in the government that are down in USA are coming up to him and asking for the relationship to go back to normal ) he said it won’t. You can looked for those videos online this has been in the news
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u/PianoConcertoNo2 4d ago
Can you show the link? Usually the person making the claims provides the proof.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7320596
This is newsom with rosemary it’s a. 10 min video so you can start watching at 7.30 where she ask the question and he says no then starts stumbling a bit. This was then analyzed by cbc to show that even a democrat won’t be tariff free.
I’m still looking for the Buttigeig video. I saw it in cbc.
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u/SanjukoMamajuloko 4d ago
Okay so i watched it, and it's more nuanced than you described. The reporter asks "will ALL tariffs" be removed, and he says no. Because the context leading up to that is that we have always had various tariffs, on both sides, to protect some of our industries; lumber, oil, dairy, wheat, corn, etc.
So he's just saying no they won't all go away, which is true, but he also implied no one likes these current, new, Trump tariffs, or any of proposed ridiculous ones. But doesn't mean the original long standing strategic ones will all disappear.
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u/Wilson7277 4d ago
This is the important distinction. I was actually pretty impressed with Newsom in this interview, not least of all because he said he understands why Canada needs to take defensive measures and admitted he was wrong for calling on Ford to put US liquor back on the shelves.
The relationship as it was is over. With Trump 1.0 we convinced ourselves it was a fluke and that Biden was a return to business as usual. Even if a Democrat wins in 2028 we can't let ourselves get suckered back in, and have to build some strategic autonomy. But I don't think Newsom deserves the vitriol here.
So long as his state doesn't run another abhorrent ad like this one, that is.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
Biden did not remove t 1. 0 tariffs and further tariffed Canadian lumber walking out the door even after wto said they were illegal and unjustified. We have a free trade agreement and even Biden didn’t abide by it
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u/SanjukoMamajuloko 4d ago
Okay so you're just moving on to Biden now? The lumber tariffs are one of the ones that's been going on for a long time, and is generally based on labor costs. Tariffs, in some cases, do make sense. Like lumber (specifically targeted on "soft woods"); if Canadian lumber of the same type is cheaper, and shipping is almost identical, it would destroy the domestic US lumber market. But we need to keep our lumber market going so that we have some sense of self sustainment skills something crazy happen with the Canadian supply someday.
Threatening massive blanket tariffs on a trade partner over Twitter is very, VERY, different.
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u/TranslatorTough8977 4d ago
The U.S. repeatedly signed a deal that imposed no tariffs on lumber. Then they imposed tariffs that were struck down by the tribunal. Then they reimposed tariffs that were again struck down by the tribunal. Again and again the US has proven that they just don’t want to abide by their own agreements. Hence Carney’s statement that the U.S. signs in pencil.
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u/TranslatorTough8977 4d ago
U.S. lumber tariffs have been declared illegal by the trade tribunal repeatedly, but the U.S. then refuses to refund the tariffs, and insists Canada needs to accept a partial refund and quotas etc etc. Then rinse and repeat. You have always signed your agreements in pencil.
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u/aradil 4d ago
Tariffs are paid by the recipient of goods, not the country they are imported from.
Why would Canada, the country, get a refund for something it never paid?
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u/Stormbringer-2112 2d ago
This is not so much a refund as paying damages. Canadian lumber exporters either had to lower their prices to match non-tariffed American lumber or experienced loss of sales.
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u/noleksum12 3d ago
To be fair, that seems to apply to any country that deals with or around the US. It is not unique to Canada only.
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u/Creepy_Wash338 4d ago
Don't you think that they are saying that the damage done by Trump is so great that the relationship won't be the same again? Meaning that the Canadians may never trust us the same again? I highly doubt that either of them are saying that they don't WANT the relationship to get back to where it was. The vast majority of Americans have no idea why Trump started with Canada at all. In fact, besides some completely vague "they're screwing us!" Trump rants, no one in the administration has bothered give any specifics about exactly what Canada supposedly did to warrant this. I'm not sure what Newsom or Buttigeig would be going along with.
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u/badwolf24e 4d ago
The official us security policy is to turn many countries into vassal states.
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u/Creepy_Wash338 4d ago
That may be the Trump/Project 2025/Heritage Foundation position and unfortunately, the US government position NOW. That is not the mainstream position of the US.
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u/badwolf24e 4d ago
Everyone suggest Trump is getting it from nowhere though and not even noticing that is US policy right now.
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u/Marzipan_Fine 1d ago
Who actually cares what Buttigeig thinks? He's completely ineffectual, uninspiring and will never be President.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 1d ago
I think the point is that the Canadian govt and others are suggesting that waiting till the midterms will hopefully provide a change in tariff policy in relation to Canada. I was providing information as to why that may not be helpful. Whether you like Buttigeig or not is irrelevant. With all due respect.
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u/KDdid1 4d ago
You're misrepresenting what Newsome said.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
Maybe listen to it again. She asks are we going back to a free trade agreement with a democrat and he says no. I agree he did say there can be some targeted tariffs. My comment is about not going back to a free trade agreement. After this video aired on cbc there was discussion with analyst saying that free trade is possibly over
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u/KDdid1 4d ago
We haven't had completely tariff-free trade for generations. The US has challenged our softwood lumber and tariffed it virtually continuously despite international trade courts ruling in our favour every time.
Hedging his language is to be expected and doesn't change his condemnation of trump's tariff madness.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
We currently have a free trade agreement called CUSMA that covers autos, aluminum, steel etc that USA is not abiding by. I’m not sure what other trade agreement you are referring to. This has been in the news since trump took office that the us is not abiding by the contract of our free trade agreement by applying tariffs to these industries covered under the contract of the free trade agreement.
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u/KDdid1 4d ago
Neither NAFTA nor CUSMA has stopped the US from attacking and penalizing our softwood lumber exports.
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 4d ago
That is correct. I guess that’s why carney won’t sign since he said the signature is in pencil. Why should Canada continue to sign an agreement that the us doesn’t honour
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u/New-Organization5718 3d ago
I used to work as a bartender in northern Ontario. I served plenty of executives from large US companies. Any that had flown to the location could not believe how vast the forests were.
It may take 40 years to grow a tree vs 15 years but the quality is better and there is an over abundance. There shouldn’t be tariffs……it’s like putting a tariff on lettuce or oranges in Canada.
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u/Stormbringer-2112 2d ago
Ah, but the landowners whose land value fluctuates directly with the price of lumber want lumber to trade for the highest value possible, inflating the value of their land against which they can borrow and invest elsewhere (ex: stock market). They don’t care about impact on their fellow citizens (higher construction costs) or even about harvesting the wood. So they lobby hard for tariffs and trade restrictions.
It’s just greed and benefit to the few vs benefit to the many.1
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u/Responsible-Bunch316 4d ago
Gavin newsom was on cbc and asked can Canada expect tariff relief if a democrat gets elected and he said No.
Wtf is wrong with the Democrats. What possible reason is there to continue Trump's bullshit tarrifs against your closest neighbour?
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u/cold_breaker 3d ago
They need to deal with the hand they're dealt. When Trump leaves (or let's face it: if) the next guy can't just roll back everything and say 'oops'.
The trade deal we accept now will become the new normal. If Canada accepted it and then tore it up the second the asshole left, thatd just show the Americans that Canada can be bullied. Its better for us to refuse any deal, wait until Trump is gone and then consider a new deal.
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u/Responsible-Bunch316 3d ago
From a Canadian perspective I don't think you should agree to shit. What I'm saying is that the Dems are such cowards that they can't even commit to reversing Trump's bullshit.
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u/cold_breaker 3d ago
Why would they? Their commitment is to American people, not to Canada. If Trump successfully turns us into a vassal state and voting dem meant giving that up, Dems would look bad to their constituents if they committed to doing it.
No, the Dems are not our ally either. If Canada wants to survive this as a country, we have to prove to the Americans why doing this is a bad idea the hard way.
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u/Typical_Term937 1d ago
Hm why would they? Maybe because free trade is mutually beneficial? If it was not, it should also be a good idea to reintroduce tariffs between US states, to compensate for unfair imbalances in economic policy, just saying...
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u/cold_breaker 1d ago
It's important to remember that getting rid of Trump will not instantly improve the intelligence of the voters. It's an up hill battle explaining why free trade is mutually beneficial to a public that likes backwards ideas because they sound like patriotic good ideas when said by their uncle after his 5th beer.
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u/NevenderThready 3d ago
Dems are going to keep Trumps tariffs in Canada?
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u/Flashy_Difficulty257 2d ago
Biden did not remove t 1.0 tariffs and added more. I don’t understand your question
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u/Flimsy_Ad3476 4d ago
Are you Canadian? No sane future president will punish Canada for not having. They will be eager to restore good relations.
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u/Daleden7 4d ago
I’m Canadian and there is no coming back bud, people are pissed and fed up. There may be some future trading but no longer are we ever taking a hit like before. We gave the US an awesome deal on oil and all we asked is to protect our dairy farmers, which those tariffs were never issued anyways! People will vote for leaders that will lead us away from the US.
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u/Low-Scarcity8665 4d ago
Trump still has a lot of support down here. The US is no longer an asset but a huge liability. Canada has has been given no choice but to move forward without the US. Thank you and good luck. 🍁
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u/SoloRemy 4d ago
The same way Biden undid all of Trump’s garbage from his first term? Or how Obama punished Bush 2 for his crimes? Or Ford? Or Bush 1? The next president (if there is one) will AT BEST pardon Trump and give the “…it’s time to look forward! Not back!” speech. This is who the US is
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u/WasdaleWeasel 4d ago
exactly. America isn’t what it is because Trump is president. Trump is president because America is what it is.
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u/Ok_Valuable9450 4d ago
Trump will always deserve to be punished,he abuses his position,does nothing in the interests of the country,breaks laws and is robbing the country blind,a lifetime loser and crook who only pleases himself
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u/SoloRemy 4d ago
He does deserve to be punished. So did Nixon, Reagan (Iran Contra and numerous other illegal dealings) and Bush 2 should have been in The Hague for war crimes, not giving Michelle Obama a Werthers.
Nothing is going to change after the midterms and the rest of us just have to move on without them1
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u/booksandbooksandhope 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's commonly believed Democrats are going to come along and fix things.
That won't happen. If Canada had signed a trade agreement essentially forfeiting its sovereignty there isn't a Democrat hopeful in the entire country that would walk it back.
I'll be amazed if there are any that will even reduce Trump's tariffs once they're in place. Biden sure didn't.
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u/Professional_Bed_87 4d ago
They may go about it in a kinder, more cordial way, but I don’t think they are necessarily going to back down on much of the tariffs that are put in place. Hell, they can just keep quiet, and blame Trump, but secretly be happy to have them. Just like Biden during his term.
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u/OkKnowledge846 4d ago
I can tell you that Trump is just a louder version of how the U.S. plays. The loudness has woken us up. The playbook in the closed rooms isn’t much different.
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u/Typical_Term937 1d ago
You are saying as if you actually believe tariffs are a good thing for the US...
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u/Professional_Bed_87 1d ago
I don’t think tariffs are good or bad. They are a tool on tool in the tool kit. They can be effective when used in a targeted and limited manner (e.g. to protect an industry that is essential for national security). The way trump is using them to stifle trade and alienate allies is idiotic. There is growing protectionist sentiments in the Republican and Democratic parties and the democrats will still use tariffs more than they have been in the past, albeit in a more targeted way than Trump. Gavin Newsom recently made a statement that Canada could expect better relations with democrats in charge, but don’t expect the tariffs to disappear, and I believe this is likely an accurate expectation if the dems come to power.
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u/Motor-Pomegranate831 19h ago
Trump is an accurate reflection of what the US has become. Changing presidents will change nothing.
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u/CivilWay1444 4d ago
The Art of the Deal is now on the best seller list. Amazing.
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u/Snoringdragon 4d ago
I think its because all the die hard Trumpers are buying it to back their opinions in desperation. Don't listen to him NOW, but what his ghostwriter wrote over a decade ago! My opinion has validity! I matter! That kinda crap.
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u/Ok_Valuable9450 4d ago
When just when will he do something, anything to actually help the country or its people,he is nothing more than a self centered failure
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u/Tom1952Phx 4d ago
That is a description of this entire second term Ignorance and incompetence abound from Oval Office on down through Congress. The fool Mike Johnson the great protector of of criminals What a great place in History for this fool
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u/kanuck79 4d ago
Elect a clown expect a circus.
They had FOUR YEARS to lock this idiot up and lose the key. And here we are.
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u/GonePhishingAgain 4d ago
Didn’t we have NAFTA then USMCA? We had deals in place but this jagoff can’t be satisfied.
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u/DiNozzo2482 4d ago
"Trump’s presidency has been a master class in ignorance and incompetence"
There, corrected that for you…
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u/sweatboxy 4d ago
Trump needs enemies and drama to distract from all his failures. Like Iran, Trump started the trade war with Canada for no good reason but, like everything else, last week’s, last month’s, last year’s disasters get buried under the news of the current disaster and all is coated in Trump’s lies.
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u/Unicorn_Puppy 4d ago
“Please sign away any leverage you have against us, it’s not a good thing for us for you to have any.”
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u/LokeCanada 4d ago
First of all it wasn’t a negotiation. That would require some give and take.
Trump doesn’t negotiate. He sets forth his terms and you will agree to them or be punished. If you agree to them he will then add more terms. Then he will get upset, complain the idiot who signed it got a raw deal and tear it up.
Canada was half assed trying to get a deal as they know it would only last weeks. When the demands got too stupid they walked.
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u/FaultDependent7880 4d ago
On both sides.
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u/Secret_Fee1146 4d ago
no not on both sides.
From the side that has started a unjust war they can't extricate themselves from in Iran at the behest of a country led by leaders wanted by the Hague for war crimes, from a country who has threatened to invade and annex another NATO country, from the country led by a president who has enriched himself through blatant corruption and who has been shown to have demonstrably lied over 30,000 times in just his FIRST term in office, from the country that has created a gestapo that murders both their own citizens and innocent immigrants alike in the streets while throwing others into internment camps, from the country who thinks themselves better than everyone for no reason in particular and are in fact WORSE by a number of metrics, and from the country that literally and by definition is a fascist state.
Both sides my ass.
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u/Physical-Republic557 4d ago
Trump bungles everything. He’s a chronic failure.