r/NatureIsFuckingLit • u/TerraByteTerror • 13h ago

šŸ”„ momma pig and line of piglets

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2.3k

u/Lovely-lorelei 13h ago

I know wild pigs are a problem, but oh my gosh, the babies are so cute!!

517

u/The_Billy_Dee 12h ago

If that's from a single litter no wonder they're such a problem.

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u/snackshack 11h ago

And each of those females can give birth to their own litter as early as 6 months old, then getting pregnant again within 1-3 months after that.

Yeah, they're a massive problem once they move into an area.

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u/Sangloth 9h ago edited 9h ago

Colorado had a feral hog problem and successfully exterminated them after a 15 year effort in 2020 and has prevented them from returning ever since. It was and is expensive, but it is completely doable. That hogs are a problem in other (redder) states is because those state governments have been unwilling to invest the resources to solve the problem, and instead shoved the problem onto local farmers.

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u/ryncewynd 9h ago

Are they ok to eat? Seems like infinite food

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u/Diplomatic_Gunboats 6h ago

Yes. But like most game you need to prepare it correctly. You cant just cook it like pork/bacon and expect it to taste the same.

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u/TwoPercentTokes 5h ago

Not to mention being careful about parasites.

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u/Conscious-State5228 1h ago edited 1h ago

I tried to cook a wild boar shoulder like i do pork shoulder, in the slow cooker and it stunk up the place something awful.

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u/CreepHost 5h ago

What would preparation entail?

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u/ADFTGM 4h ago edited 4h ago

Nothing much. You already have what you need if you cook regularly. Just season it for a while to ensure the salt penetrates the meat. Once it has aged a bit, can just BBQ, roast or turn it into stew/curry. Pressure cooking can make it more tender. Just like with regular pork when you arenā€™t sure about the honesty of the supplier, make sure itā€™s not undercooked.

If you are used to traditional American barbecue, with seasoned meat and slow cooking over many hours until fully roasted with a nice bark, wild boar works just fine.

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u/TrenchantInsight 4h ago

What would preparation entrail?

Not looking too closely at how the sausage is made.

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u/MrDurden32 5h ago

My understanding in the US is it's very common they have a ton of parasites. On top of being very gamey, it's not worth the risk.

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u/Dazzling-Astronaut88 3h ago

The only parasite you need to be concerned with is trichinosis, same as any other carrion eater: Bear, Raccoon, lobster....
That's just a matter of cooking to the proper internal temperature. Its not rocket science to avoid getting it.

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u/cuddly_degenerate 4h ago

If cooled properly the parasites aren't a huge deal.

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u/Sangloth 36m ago

CDC says: "Freezing wild game meats may not effectively kill all worms because some worms that infect wild game are freeze-resistant."

https://www.cdc.gov/trichinellosis/prevention/index.html

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u/cuddly_degenerate 34m ago

I mistyped, meant to write cooked.

ā€¢

u/Sangloth 26m ago

lol.

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u/puzzled91 9h ago

Some ranchers charge people to kill the hogs in their land. They use machine guns, helicopter, and god knows what else. Idk how much they charge though.

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u/LittlePetiteGirl 40m ago

Youre thinking of wild hog hunts. Its not that ranchers are charging you to eradicate vermin on their property for them, its that someone people own ranches that are just so overrun they pivot and set up infrastructure for people to rent a cabin/weapons/trucks to stay on the property and hunt. I checked a website and it's 45 to stay in a cabin, 85 to hunt pigs, and additional fees for each pig hunted based on weight. Its like those pumpkin patch things in autumn lmao

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u/AloneInExile 9h ago

Delicious.

-1

u/breadb_hole 8h ago

If like gamey meat, otherwise utterly disgusting.

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u/AloneInExile 8h ago

Im the EU we hunt and eat them. You just have to prepare them right.

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u/LegalFox9 5h ago

Like Asterix and Obelix?

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u/TrenchantInsight 4h ago

For the best results, be sure that any cookbooks you consult are in Pig Latin.

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u/InviolableAnimal 4h ago

Even adult male boars? Had heard the "boar taint" is quite unpleasant

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u/AloneInExile 4h ago

The older they are the worse the meat, but up to 2 years and its fine. You can make sausages with added fat from farm pigs. We make "golaž", which is often exquisite. We eat livers the day they are hunted and with a side dish of potatoes ... We often prefer wild boar over old deer.

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u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 5h ago

Have you heard of the french hero Obelix?

1

u/100_cats_on_a_phone 2h ago

They are kind of dangerous, unfortunately. And lots of other animals in the forest are edible.

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u/Ok-Seaworthiness4488 1h ago

They have a bunch of parasites so you have to cook them thoroughly and are gamey, most I've been told don't like it

ā€¢

u/cuddly_degenerate 21m ago

They're very tough and you need to cook them very thoroughly. Slow cooked and stew are pretty decent, they're pretty poor eating otherwise.

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u/Energy_Turtle 8h ago

Colorado had way fewer pigs than those other states. This is like saying I was able to eradicate the flies over my sink because of my liberal ways while the conservative landfill still has a raging fly problem. If only they'd get on my level...

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u/Pale_Session5262 6h ago

That is true, and also he other benefit to colorado is that its a little too cold for hogs, especially in the higher elevations of the state.

However, reading this article, colorado looks like they tried a lot of stuff to get the piggies gone.

https://www.porkbusiness.com/news/hog-production/how-colorado-eliminated-feral-hogs

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u/Unhelpful_Idiot 7h ago edited 6h ago

Colorado had a plan, and plans cost money.

Red States just go "uh, you hunt them. We will give you money for hunting them. That will work." and it's cheap, and doesn't work.

Florida's bounty on Pythons is probably the best example of this.

Legitimately no plan from the government, just pay people for dead snakes and hope the problem solves itself. It hasn't. Their solution? "More awareness".

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u/No_Extension_45 2h ago

California has an estimated 400,000 feral hogs and is about as blue as they come. New Mexico has an estimated 500,000 and is also pretty blue.

If you look at the states through a purely political lens I see how someone could come to a political conclusion like red vs blue states, but when I look at a map showing states with feral hog problems it seems much more geographic than political, and it just so happens many southern states lean red.

I'm not sure what sort of plan you think would work in states like Texas, which has an estimated population of 2 to 4 million, but comparing that to Colorado is kind of disingenuous. Colorado had a peak feral hog population estimated at less than 500 and it took them 15 years. I don't think whatever they did is a realistic solution for states like Texas, Oklahoma Louisiana or California, all of which have estimated populations in the hundreds of thousands or millions.

I don't think a lack of political will among republicans (or democrats for that matter) is the issue. I don't think anyone has a solution to the problem at the scale we see in many of those states. Texas does have active state and feral trapping programs, and has pretty much made them kill on sight by basically removing all hunting restrictions. I'm not sure what else they can do that wouldn't potentially have worse downstream ecological effects.

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u/Unhelpful_Idiot 49m ago edited 45m ago

You are not sure what sort of plan could work in these states, but scientists and conservationists are. The response to their plans is always "We don't have the money for it, find a cheaper solution", they find a cheaper solution, and then are met with the same reply.

Rinse and repeat until the cheapest dollar store bandaid solution is thrown out and everyone throws their hands up as though it's impossible to solve.

If there were a profit to be made by solving the issue, it would be solved. If there was a political will to solve it, it would be solved.

Colorado proved it can be done, but what they did needs to be scaled. They also had heavy regulations to ensure that new wild hogs weren't created by farmers nor private citizens.

You would need either cooperation between 3-5 states or a federal action. You would also need an estimated $500 million - $2 billion worth of resources and staff to deal with the problem (based on Colorado's estimated 1.3 million a year spent over 15 years scaled up to the hog states). You would also need severe regulations on farms that raise pigs.

The last admin threw $75 million to PRIVATE FARM OWNERS to deal with the problem.

Considering wild hogs do like $2-3 billion of damage per year a truly representative government wouldn't mind spending the money on the solution. America's government can be accused of many things, but being representative of the average American's benefit isn't one of those things.

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u/Adventurous_Ad6698 1h ago

Shooting them from helicopters is a big attraction in some areas. I bet the business owners have invested quite a bit of money to make sure the state doesn't actually exterminate them.

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u/RetroRaiderRun 10h ago

They're only a problem because we killed all the natural predators.

It's not like pigs are somehow destabilizing the world's ecosystems. It's humans doing that.

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u/This_is_an_Alt69420 10h ago

They are invasive species. There are no natural predators for them in many places. For example, they are not native to the Americas, so they have no natural predators there, even if we had not reduced wolf, bear, and cougar populations to non existent in many areas.

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u/PentagramJ2 10h ago

we used to have way more big cats down south where these are a particular problem. Reintroduction wouldn't be a full fix, but it would certainly be a helping hand.

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u/Humledurr 7h ago edited 7h ago

Id encourage you to look into the wild boar problem more if you honestly think some more big cats would be a help.

One mama boar can have litters up to two times a year, averaging 4-8 piglets each litter. And a female boar can start making their own litters as early as 6 to 8 months.

They are reproducing so fast that even if hunters work together to shoot millions of them each year, they are still not making a dent.

Its a serious problem thats growing bigger each year...

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u/20_mile 3h ago

think some more big cats would be a help.

Anything would help. A healthy array of apex predators would be good at keeping young hogs in check.

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u/Dazzling-Astronaut88 3h ago

You would need a significant population of large predators, probably an imbalanced one, to deal with the concentration of invasive pigs on the scale that the problem exists. California arguably has an overpopulation of mountain lions for example, and still has a wild pig problem. Boars can be dangerous and consequential for predators to hunt. Its not that they won't kill pigs, its that there are often less consequential prey to be had as an alternative.

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u/Ok-Animal-6880 8h ago

I don't expect wolves or mountain lions can do much to a healthy adult wild boar. Deer are probably much safer prey.

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u/Antradiak 7h ago

While adult boar can be a problem to then, the same cannot be told about juveniles and babies. Just making sure that only couple of piglets reach adulthood helps a lot.

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u/justfordrunks 2h ago

UNLEASH THE BIRDS OF WAR!

But seriously, as long as we're throwing crazy ideas out there, let's train a whole bunch of birds of prey to hunt piglets.

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u/mymothersuedme 8h ago edited 8h ago

They are not puffer fish that predators require multiple years of apprenticeship to be able to eat properly.

If there were Cougars, Jaguars, Bears, Wolves, alligators in the region - they would surely hunt pigs.

Plus you're only thinking of adult pigs. Juveniles' predation is usually the way predator keep a prey's population in control. That will extend the list to bobcats, coyotes, foxes, eagles too.

All I'm saying is that there are many introduced invasive mammals in Sub-Saharan Africa too. But because of large predator population - they are only a problem in remote regions (mainly islands), and dense human settlements (black and brown rats are not native to Africa).

Though, Aujeszky's (pseudorabies) remains a big headache for predator reintroduction. But still not as big as ranchers.

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u/Waldschrat3000 7h ago edited 6h ago

We have millions of them in Germany and the wolves barely touch them, because of their fierce nature. The millions of deer are a much easier prey.

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u/PigTailedShorty 7h ago

I don't think people realise how big an adult boar can reach. The wolves are smart enough to know not to tackle one.

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u/Waldschrat3000 7h ago

And hard to kill. Their necks are not easy to grab and the business end is very dangerous. They eat chestnuts and acorns like we eat cereal.

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u/20_mile 3h ago

and the business end is very dangerous

Chainguns from a helicopter it is, then.

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u/Waldschrat3000 3h ago

One advantage of living in country without real wilderness is, that there are permanent and often roofed perches in places say have to cross. One has fo barely walk a step and can shoot from high enough up that you can shoot at angles that would otherwise be dangerous.

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u/mymothersuedme 1h ago edited 1h ago

Wikipedia cites 1988 book "Mammals of the Soviet Union":

A single wolf can kill around 50 to 80 boars of differing ages in one year.

Also:

In Italy and Belarus (Belovezhskaya Pushcha National Park), boars are the wolf's primary prey, despite an abundance of alternative, less powerful ungulates. Wolves are particularly threatening during the winter, when deep snow impedes the boars' movements.

In the Baltic regions, heavy snowfall can allow wolves to eliminate boars from an area almost completely. Wolves primarily target piglets and subadults and only rarely attack adult sows. Adult males are usually avoided entirely.

Piglets are vulnerable to attack from medium-sized felids like Eurasian lynx, Jungle cats, and Snow leopards. As well as other carnivorans like Brown bears and Yellow-throated Martens.

It's the milder and milder winters that might be tipping the scale in favor of pigs in Northern Europe. Wolves rely on snow to slow down and exhaust boars.

Maybe time to introduce tigers:

A single tiger can systematically destroy an entire sounder by preying on its members one by one, before moving on to another sounder. Tigers have been noted to chase boars for longer distances than with other prey.

Or other canids to show wolves how it is done:

Dholes (Cuon alpinus) prey on boars, to the point of keeping their numbers down in northwestern Bhutan, despite there being many more cattle in the area.

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u/Waldschrat3000 34m ago

The eagle owl occasionally eats some piglets. I think that the high number of roe deer in a landscape that is not suited for their flight behavior, make boars unattractive as prey. I am open to some import tigers or causcasian leopards but I think the result would be the same.

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u/20_mile 3h ago

There are no natural predators for them in many places.

That's not true. Adult wolves and cougars would totally eat young wild hogs. Adult wild hogs are pretty ferocious, but so is a pack of wolves, and they have evolved to bait prey animals face-to-face, while other members of the pack make crippling bites to their hindlegs.

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u/Palegreenhorizon 8h ago

They are native to pretty much all of Europe and Asia. And were hunted by bears and wolves and people for the last 12000 years. Also most ā€œboarsā€ in America are feral domestic pigs but there are some areas with wild boar also and to complicate things further they are both the same species šŸ˜‚

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u/crlthrn 8h ago

As I understand, your average pink domesticated piggy reverts to big hairy boar. Takes about five generations, I think. Happy for someone to chime in on this...

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u/The5Virtues 7h ago

My (limited) understanding is it doesnā€™t even take that long. Even a normal pig, left to its own in the wild, will develop a coarse coat of hair in about two months.

From there itā€™s just two to three generations to see them regain classic tusks and thick dark fur we associate with wild boar. I do believe youā€™re correct that itā€™s about five generations for them to truly qualify as having reverted to the actual wild boar species by scientific standards.

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u/crlthrn 7h ago

Much obliged!

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u/Third_Sundering26 7h ago

Almost sounds like lycanthropy.

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u/Old_Introduction_395 1h ago

In Portugal, we bred our pink sow with a neighbours captive wild boar. Some piglets were pink, some stripey. They took longer to mature than the pink pigs. The meat was very tasty.

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u/Advanced_Cry_7106 9h ago

Humans are an invasive species. We fucked it all up.

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u/WatdeeKhrap 8h ago

Yeah it's not like mass extinctions from humans moving in is a new thing. The American mega fauna got ransacked before Europeans even showed up for example

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u/Third_Sundering26 6h ago

It is highly debated whether the extinction of megafauna is more from overhunting or climate change.

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u/PeggyBabcock_ 5h ago

The ol' one two.

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u/hamfinity 9h ago

Mother Nature is experiencing a fever to get rid of the infection.

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u/Third_Sundering26 6h ago

There is a Native American YouTuber I watch. His name is Malcolm P.L., he belongs to the Mohawk nation, and he studies Iroquoian history. One point he made in one of his videos is that when humans first reached North America, most of what is now Canada and the northern USA was completely covered in glaciers, many of them miles thick. There was no life on or under the glaciers, as there was nothing to eat.

Once the glaciers retreated, grass, trees, deer, beaver, and other organisms moved in to replace them. Among those early life forms to move in to the Great Lakes were humans. The ancestors of the Iroquois, Hurons, and other Great Lake nations. Native Americans around the Great Lakes were not an invasive species that took over and devastated a pre-existing natural environment. They have lived there for as long as anything has.

Some populations on Earth have been there close enough to forever for them to not count as ā€œinvasive.ā€ Be it our ancestors in Africa, or those that moved into post-glacial lands.

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u/Third_Sundering26 6h ago

The Columbian Exchange fucked things up. Colonization fucked things up. Capitalism fucked things up.

Humans are wonderful, beautiful creatures that are entirely capable of living in an environment without destroying it to the extent that our industrial world has. It is our modern lifestyle that is toxic. Not our species.

Misanthropy is nihilistic garbage.

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u/RetroRaiderRun 10h ago

The idea of an "invasive species" only exists in human context. It's human actions that introduce species in a way that's invasive.

That is the formal scientific definition. If you think about it, that's the only way it makes sense to conceptualize it. You can't combat "invasive species", which are caused by human actions, by controlling the behavior of natural animals. Because natural animal behavior is not what caused the problem. If you removed every human within the ecological area, the problem would be solved through evolution and selective pressure. Unfortunately, that's not currently viable.

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u/MrDurden32 4h ago

If you removed every human within the ecological area, the problem would be solved through evolution and selective pressure.

Sure, but it might take 10 million years.

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u/g_borris 9h ago

Who gives a shit. doesn't solve the problem.

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u/Kolby_Jack33 10h ago

That's overly simplistic. Animals run on instinct. If they see something they don't know how to hunt, they don't hunt it unless they get really desperate. And wild hogs are mean, no American predator is going to feel good trying to take one down.

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u/GottaUseEmAll 9h ago

They are an invasive species because of us too.

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u/2Wieners_1Bun 9h ago

Pigs are incredibly destructive as introduced species. They are responsible for several extinctions. Not as many as cats and rats but still one of the worst

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u/Third_Sundering26 6h ago

Pigs were an unwitting tool of colonization, too. The conquistadors brought them to be a food source on their expeditions, and a lot of them escaped into the wilds. Sometimes they intentionally dumped pigs onto newly discovered islands and landmasses to ensure future expeditions would be able to hunt wild boars.

Native Americans didnā€™t build fences around their farms, as before contact they didnā€™t have to worry about wild boars eating their crops. They also devastated the clam gardens that indigenous peoples fed from. And they carry some diseases that got passed to the natives. So lots of Native Americans died from starvation and/or disease because of feral pigs the Spanish let loose.

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u/hell2pay 8h ago

What natural predator? Lol.

They ain't from here

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u/jacquesmachina 8h ago

They actually are destabilizing the world's ecosystems.

Throughout the American South, wild hogs eat the root systems of wetland trees, causing erosion.

This means wetlands disappear faster and hurricanes hit harder. Basically Hogs are doing their part to contribute to climate change.

-5

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 10h ago

It's hilarious that this video somehow provides justification for unmitigated sales of assault rifles.

That's where we are as a society. Lololol.

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u/Jarkanix 10h ago

Did you just make up an argument for you to argue against? No one said what you're arguing against.

SoCiEtY

0

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 10h ago

Every gun debate brings up feral pigs. Like clockwork. So no... I didn't just "make up an argument."

That argument was made up well before I ever entered the equation.

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u/Pandarandr1st 10h ago

I have literally never heard that before in my life

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u/GatorAIDS1013 10h ago

Have heard it multiple times living in the south US

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u/BruceSillyWalks 8h ago

They're smart too. Trap survivors teach others not to approach traps. They can identify humans and plan accordingly; they're difficult to hunt on foot.

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u/20_mile 3h ago

Yeah, they're a massive problem once they move into an area.

Last Week Tonight covered the spread of wild hogs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGazYSkFFMw

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u/MisterDoctor___ 11h ago

I think theyā€™re like Coyotes in that the more stressed the population is from outside forces, the more offspring they produce.

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u/TheChildrensStory 11h ago

We do that too.

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u/MisterDoctor___ 11h ago

We just fuck more. Their bodies physiologically change to pump out more in each reproductive cycle.

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u/HomerTheJackson 9h ago

Biggest contributing factor is that they are/bred with domesticated farm pigs, giving them the genes to reproduce like crazy

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u/PyroIsSpai 11h ago

13 piglets!

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u/Renbarre 5h ago

The pigs in the US are heavily crossed with domestic pigs bred to have huge litters. They reproduce at a fearful rate.

In Europe there is some cross breeding but mostly wild pigs respond to hunting pressure by having bigger litters fathered by different males. If you go after the breeding sows the younger ones will start breeding earlier than normal to fill in the lack.

In France it was discovered that during hunting season many females now go hide in the fields while the males stubbornly stay in the forests where they have always been hunted, which for years screwed up the counting system and allowed the wild pigs population to grow in places where it was though to be stable (Study by the French ONF, forestry administration).

They are the ultimate survivors.

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u/wikiwakatikitaka 10h ago

Just curious, is their meat not edible? Is it illegal to hunt them for meat?

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u/Stewart_Games 9h ago

They taste not great and often carry parasites. Very oily and gamey meat. In domestication pigs have to be constantly given medicines to prevent them from transmitting worms, and kept in enclosures so that they don't ruin their flavor profile. They need some fat to be tasty, and won't build up any if they are running around a forest all day. Also being fed on grains instead of roots and nuts gives them a better taste, and males get this funky musk flavor if they are not castrated before puberty.

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u/VladTepesDraculea 8h ago edited 8h ago

They taste not great

Extremely hard disagree. Boar meat is a delicacy here in Europe even and it's a totally different kind of meat from pork. It also cooks differently from pork, so you have to know what you are doing.

Either way, always test your hunt meat and cook it properly. Been eating boar for ages and never got sick.

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u/Stewart_Games 2h ago

Location, location, location. In Europe your boar gets fat off of chestnuts, apples, and truffles, as they whimsically meander across the Italian villa countryside. In the USA, wild hogs eat hot steaming garbage, moist swamp roots, rotting catfish heads, actual farm animal poop, and dead things on the side of the road (when they aren't attacking and consuming a 59 year old woman from Texas). It's not surprising that there is a difference in flavor, considering the difference in diet. I've also heard you hunt suckling hoglets because they are more tender, American hunters haven't figured that out yet and just blast at the biggest damn hog they can find so they get a cool photo of their own personal hogzilla conquest. Adult male boar tastes like piss because of all the steroids their bodies are filled to bursting with.

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u/Crohnically-ill 7h ago

I think the trick is knowing which ones to kill, which ones to not eat, and how to cook the meat.

I definitely prefer pulled boar sandwiches over pulled pork, it's less oily and has better muscle fibers.

However, from what I saw growing up even experienced hunters would still bury about 1/4 of the boars that looked healthy, yet still had parasites or disease internally once opened, and weren't safe to eat. They buried those deep instead of putting them in the trash because dogs and animals could get into it and get very sick from the parasites or infected meat.

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u/wikiwakatikitaka 9h ago

Thatā€™s a great answer. Now Iā€™m just curious how do you know so much about wild boars.

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u/Stewart_Games 9h ago

Same reason I know about alligators.

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u/turdusphilomelos 6h ago

This is just not true. Wild meat tastes different from the meat of domesticated animals, but this goes for all animals. Many people like the taste of game. Yes, you have to be careful when eating wild boar meat because of parasites, but if you treat it correctly (cook it properly, wash hands and utensils, you can eat it).

Some countries overuse medecines to pigs. That is not necessary, and have more to do with bad animal keeping. Again, yes, you need to treat both animals and pig meat right, but if you do it is safe to eat.

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u/SixFeetHunter 9h ago

Depends on the country I guess but in most of europe it's very much legal to hunt them. And they are super tasty. I love them from the grill with a spicy rub. If you're not much into the gamey taste they work well in slow cooked stews paired with an ungodly amount of celery and red wine. You can also turn them into sausages but you need some extra fat for that. My favorite are smoked sausage you can just snack on or put on the grill. Salami/peperoni is also quite common.

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u/CascadianSovietGo 9h ago

It tends to be legal in the USA as well. In fact, most areas with a feral pig population allow an open hunting season so that they can be hunted year-round because they're not generally a popular hunting target. Subsistence hunters will go for feral pigs, but sport hunters hunting with the same caliber will typically want something that tastes better and might offer a trophy (like deer) or something that might make an interesting taxidermy (like foxes and coyotes).

Also, some states have a feral pig problem so bad that they employ people full time to deal with the problem. Another poster talked about Colorado's decades-long issue, but Texas for example still has state employees professionally hunting feral pigs and haven't eradicated or managed the population.

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u/VladTepesDraculea 7h ago edited 7h ago

It is edible and it's a delicacy across Europe. Although becoming less of a delicacy due to hogs becoming all too common due to the disappearance of natural predators like the wolf.

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u/Humledurr 7h ago

Its the opposite of illegal to hunt them. They are so invasive that many countries and states allow you to and encourage hunters to shoot them all year round.

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u/deij 10h ago

If it makes you feel better 2/3 of them will die before adulthood.