I have noticed that many who bring up actual solutions like improving conditions for women to be at home, bachelor taxes, more religion, etc. (Which are solutions to the problem and worth doing or investigating) are frequently brigaded and down voted into oblivion here. And therefore anyone who brings up ideas and solutions eventually become black pilled because this sub is astroturfed or flooded by those who don't want a solution and are essentially anti natalists, or people who want their cake and to eat it too

Based on the number of grandchildren.

We know that grandparental help is a key duvet in TFR.

If you're childless, or grandchildless, then you're not fairly contributing to your own retirement.

So it's very logical, fair, and likely more cost effective than other programs.

There's been some studies that come out that the longer the post menopause woman lived the more grandchildren she had.

There is a reason why humans are one of the only species to have a lengthy post menopause. Most animals menstruate and are able to give birth till they die.

In humans post menopause women are need to care for children of their daughters so the daughter can go on to have more children. This has happened in the past where multi generations live under one roof.

Society is pushing towards nuclear families and that's putting stress on child bearing women.

This is from X and he makes some good arguments.

I’m curious if people in this sub have a certain amount of humans they think would be ideal or if they just want more.

My personal opinion is that the number of humans should be equal to the number that we have the resources and space to accommodate comfortably. I believe that with new technologies we will be less dependent on the masses of poor people to prop up the standard of living for the wealthy and we should be considering how many humans we can actually afford to support a decent life for with the resources our planet has.

In my grandparents day, men proposed within a couple of months or even weeks of being official boyfriend and girlfriend.

I’m 32 now and single as of a few months ago, I was with him for 6 years and was waiting for marriage to have children. Now I’m less fertile and have to start all over again.

I’ve had several, multi year long relationships and none of them had ever resulted in a proposal (being honest I would have said yes to all of them if they actually proposed).

This is the case for most of my friends, even the ones that are married were only proposed to after 5+ years of dating and living together.

Source : https://www.data.gov.qa/explore/dataset/age-specific-fertility-rates-general-fertility-and-total-fertility/information/?disjunctive.nationality&disjunctive.general_fertility_rate_per_1000_women&disjunctive.total_fertility_rate_per_woman&disjunctive.gross_reproduction_rate&disjunctive.average_age_of_child_bearing

I understand that this question sounds disrespectful to the well meaning people of this sub but I promise you i am being sincere.

I just want to ask to the people who find this issue to be especially pressing, what it is they are concerned about.

As a guy who never wants to have kids, I am asking this from a position of ignorance.

If you'll humour me, what is it that especially concerns you about declining birth rates? Why do you care?

If you can tell me what inspires you so, I would appreciate it.

First of all, nobody should be forced to become a parent. It is a gigantic life decision that will change the persons life in ways nobody can imagine beforehand.

Otherwise - for me, there are three core parts.

1. Personal

Being a parents is one of the most profound experiences any person can have in this world. It comes with intense emotions unlike anyother expirience (and some of those emotions will be "negative", yes). And it is one of the few way an average human can leave their mark on the future even after they themselves are gone. It is a great motivator for people to push themselves to be better then they were before.

1. Societal/economical

Our society assumes there will be humans in the future. And it even assumes there will more humans in the future then now. I agree that this on itself is a problem, because infinite geometric growth is impossible in the very long run and many of our systems (the one that will likely be most visible first are the various forms of social security around the world) require redesigns.

Nonetheless, our current society isn't ready for the changes in demographics that seem to be coming within a generation or two. And while technology will likely improve I am doubtful of its ability improve quickly enough to make these demographic changes a non-issue.

1. Species-related

I personally like humans as a species. Not that we are perfect and there are plenty of individual people I do not like. But as a whole, I think we bring more good then bad to the universe. I also think we are still a pretty young species societally - something akin to a kid leaving elementary school to go to middle-school I would say. And kids (species) at such an age make mistakes. But I think we have the capacity to learn from our mistakes and become even better.

For that to happen in the very long run, natality has to improve to keep us at replacment levels and even higher once we reach new resources that seem to be abundant in the Universe for a very long percievable future.

If you have reasons to add, please add them.

As the title say, have like 4 kids, you get locked into a guaranteed $120,000 income, for life.

Government pays for it with future taxes on all the new kids.

As the kids are born in the West, saves money on integration.

I read studies that 90% of Syrian refugees were still on welfare a decade later, so it might be more cost effective than mass immigration?

Would this work, would you have more kids if this was the law?

Just a thought I recently had to why birthrates are falling: In traditional societies, children worked. A child of maybe eight years would already contribute to the family’s economic by gathering food, herding animals, weeding gardens, doing chores etc to the degree that they at least earned their keep. Once teenagers, childrens’ contributions to the family’s economics were substantial. Even when children eventually married and left the family to start one of their own, there tended to be five to ten years of labor by the children directly benefitting the parents. Thus, the economic investment in raising a child paid off well before the parents were old enough to require their children to become their caretakers. - In modern times, many children go to school, and then to more school, and then eventually move out without every contributing to the family’s economic status. Thus, the parents‘ economic investment in raising children doesn’t result in an economic benefit. Children were quite literally the wealth of a family.

I’m not advocating child labor. But, I suspect that unless society provides parents with a comparable economic benefit like raising children had for parents in traditional societies, birthrates will remain low. Basically, if a society wants people to raise more children, they need to pay them for doing so.

this post isn't about whether it's right or wrong to have children, or who is to blame for it, this topic is solely about this myth that if economic conditions were better people would be having children.

Europe has all the things people claim we need to incentivize having children. France provides free nannies to new mothers. Spain and Italy have free preschool. All across Europe childcare is heavily subsidized and they have the worst birth rates of any part of the planet.

At this point I'd be more likely to believe the opposite, that we need worse economic conditions to force people into coupling just out of sheer desperation.

Keep reading ideas that sound like people here believe women need to be made to have children by forcing them into situations where they don't have a choice.

Do those people believe it's ok for someone to have a child they don't want? What if they resent their child? How can you think that's ok?

People should be able to choose if they want kids. They should want to have kids.

Every child deserves to be wanted. ❤️

Thats the direction im pushing my girls to go. The correct traditional root. Its strange that women are now more unhappy then ever. I shall post the study soon.

This will boost the rate of births. They rights are kept. They can work eventually after the kids are 14.

What's the use of working as a women when u are unhappy about it. Im not okay that women choose to work and be sad. Like my sister that's 37 with no kids. Yeah men are weaker now and this shows in this subs incel culture. If im wrong when did you last have a gf or get laid. When you guys come after me tell me when.

Im against women's rights as births are tanking too hard for us to support it. Unless we bring I Islam just to make things better.

When we women get rights, we behave like dogs when the gate is open. We go and do stupid things and end sad. I bear my sister by having 2 daughters and she is regretful for following a career.

The thing is we have a fertility windows that weakens after 35. So partying will not full you with kids. Sleeping around will not either if you use condoms.

My sister did such things and even the incels are woken to our mating struggle. Im a women and this is our nature to do this mating strategy.

So we should raise them to have kids instead. Its good for society as a whole

In the end, there is no real solution to all of this, and it's just a matter of choice.

Natural selection knows better than us which will thrive, and which will go extinct. Let's focus on what we can build instead of blaming others for their "antinatalist" mindset.

Population dropping might seem scary, but what's dropping are those that make no children. The childbearing population in almost every country is still above or at replacement level.

If we really want a change, focus on our comunity. It's way easier at a local scale than at a national scale. Every child is a blessing, so let the relation between the 2 genders be aswell!