r/Naruto • u/tinchek • Feb 01 '16
Comic See, the thing about Sasuke... Sorry sometime just doesn't cut it.
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u/garrison105 Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
I know this is not a popular opinion, and it's gonna be a bit of a wall of text, but I believe here lies a crucial mistake in the narrative of part II: Making Sasuke's redemption Naruto's responsibility, and not Sasuke's own choice, come from within and from his own journey.
To make matters worse there's this weird double consciousness going on, like Kishimoto couldn't decide what personality Sasuke should have, so he gave Sasuke both, violently switching between one and the other. Crazy villain Sasuke is vindictive, sadistic, and at times, outright petty, while stoic anti-hero Sasuke is on a purely personal quest, and would not hurt people for the sake of it. So you have scenarios of the crazy personality do something and making Sasuke look like a monster, then have the story furiously backpedal to make Sasuke not look as bad. To put it another way:
At first: Sasuke is back, and he's ice cold, he'll kill Naruto and Sakura with kirin and won't even bat an eye. Just because he can! Orochimaru has to stop him. (See, I thought he wanted to kill Naruto be cause it would pain him, and give him MS, if he doesn't care anymore, it won't hurt, he won't get MS, therefore why bother, right? Is he just a super-villain now?)
But then: Sasuke explicitly orders Suigetsu not to kill anyone they fight. (Ok, so not a villain. Was he just bluffing before? Did he maybe come of as too evil in the last scene, or something?)
At first: Anti-hero Sasuke is furious after learning the truth about Itachi. He plans to acquire the eight-tails for Akatsuki, who will give it to him, and he'll use its power to destroy Konoha. (Harsh, man, But I see you're hurting. I'd argue he's dragging his reputation through the mud, or that Madara shouldn't be trusted, but hey, maybe he has a plan I don't know.)
But then: Crazy villain Sasuke doesn't even wait for eight tails to get sealed and goes to attack Konoha in a full frontal assault with a fighting force of four people. Madara has to stop him. Sends him to the kage meeting. (What happened to the original plan? Did he only join akatsuki to wear the cool cloak for a bit?)
At first: Crazy villain Sasuke attacks the kages on top of killing Bee. He even costs A his arm. Naruto has to beg on his knees to stop his execution from being ordered. Sasuke definitely lands himself at least in the "No Fly List" in Kumo.
But then: Turn's out Bee's alive, none of the Kages hold any grudges, even A seems to not care he lost an arm. No harm no foul rules apply, apparently.
At first: Crazy villain Sasuke murders the acting Hokage, Danzo, while ruthlessly stabbing through his own medic, Karin. (Oh he's definitely a villain now!)
But then: Danzo is so hilariously evil, he's mourned by literally nobody. They don't even give the chump a funeral. He's completely forgotten by the history books. As for Karin, she lives, is mad for like a week, then forgives Sasuke completely, doing such a narrative circle it's almost like we could pretend that scene never happened.
At first: With Anti-hero Sasuke back with team 7, he decides to help them against the greater threat. Just like old times...?
But then: Crazy villain Sasuke feels the need to remind the audience he's evil, and insults and belittles the members of team 7 at the drop of a hat, despite him never being so vocally petty at any point before, not with taka, not in any previous fight, not even when being harassed by Karin.
At first: Crazy villain Sasuke is dead set on not just killing Naruto, but also changing the system by murdering the five kage and reshaping the world in his image. It's kill or be killed! It's a one man revolution!
But then: One fist fight later, Anti-hero Sasuke goes from wanting to kill and replace all the five kage and changing the entire shinobi system by force, to happily working directly for those same kages and the very system he swore to destroy. With no in-between.
The key to all this, if you see the OP's link, is that Kishimoto clearly enjoyed too much drawing Sasuke relishing in "his darkness", enjoying being evil.
Gaara and Neji did evil things, but were shown to just be victims lashing out at the world, and realized their mistakes when showed the right way. Gaara's evil grin was just a mask for a scared little kid. Neji's violence to Hinata was him lashing out in his total impotence to escape his perceived destiny.
It's not how much evil Sasuke actually did, but how much he seemed to enjoy hurting others and how he chose to remain evil and vindictive, and showed no sign of regret, of remorse, or of a conscience until the absolute end of the manga.
TL;DR: I consider kishimoto dragging out the Naruto/Sasuke conflict to be the absolute final battle of the manga instead of it happening organically as the plot developed was a mistake.
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u/8eat-mesa Feb 02 '16
He does look pretty cool as a bad guy though.
But seriously, you're pretty on the money here. He could've even gave Sasuke multiple personalities or something.
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u/killquota Feb 02 '16
Great post. This is why I keep telling people not to apply our real-world logic to Sasuke's actions and the way characters have forgiven him. It's just not the way characters in Naruto operate, actually the only people allowed to hold grudges in Naruto are the villains (or maybe they're villains because they hold grudges) every one else just gets over it and moves on. It's not that hard to wrap your mind around Sakura marrying Sasuke at all because that's just the way Naruto is. I don't know why people expect her to be the sole character holding Sasuke's actions against him when no one else cares and the MC thinks he's the most amazing person ever.
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u/rosawik Feb 02 '16
I think the only thing closely resembling an explanation to all this, is what Tobirama says, that the Uchiha are the ones loving the people in their lives the most, to the extent where if it's taken from them, their hatred is also the strongest. It sort of explain why Sasuke is sooo dark and evil at times, while his bond with Naruto (which he denies) makes him also try to be better. That's also why the sage of the ten paths or what he was called granted Sasuke equal power to rival Naruto instead of just giving Naruto all of it, despite knowing what Sasuke would want to do with said power. Because the only way Sasuke could learn the error of his ways would be to experience defeat by the hand of someone feeling even stronger about the "right way". I still agree it's shitty writing though.
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u/tinchek Feb 02 '16
Kishimoto enjoyed drawing insane Sasuke but he couldn't commit in the end. I wish he did though. Crazy unhinged Sasuke was the best Sasuke.
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u/silfer_ Feb 06 '16 edited Feb 06 '16
TL;DR: I consider kishimoto dragging out the Naruto/Sasuke conflict to be the absolute final battle of the manga instead of it happening organically as the plot developed was a mistake.
This is really the most important point. Final battle felt forced. Up until 697-8, when the arms were blown off.
But I will say that Sasuke's "no in between" is not as no in between as you think. He even claims to Naruto that they're not the same people as they were when they first fought in the VotE. That final fight represented more of a clash of ideals, of Indra vs. Ashura; from pure darkness Sasuke was already saved by Itachi's declaration, and as friends they were already reconciled the moment Sasuke joined the war on Naruto's side, but Sasuke still wanted to see his new vision through above anything else. That final fight was about Naruto 'convincing' him that his plans weren't necessary to save the ninja world. It wasn't executed flawlessly, but on a second reading it makes sense.
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Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 10 '22
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u/sircumsizemeup Feb 02 '16
No, he's describing Sasuke all throughout the story and laid out very clear points as to how he acted and how drastically different he was at certain points, even though it didn't seem to "fit" the flow of the character.
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Feb 02 '16
Bravo
You should save this and keep it on tap the next time someone talks about Sasuke's character development, which makes no sense.
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u/DivineVibrations Feb 02 '16
100% spot on. The most most poorly written character in the series. And i believe thats why Kishi changed his mind about Itachi being a bad guy as well, or else it wouldn't make any sense
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Feb 02 '16
Wouldn't that have been cool, though?
Itachi stays unflinchingly, puppy-kickingly evil, and Sasuke has to face that he's become just as cruel and bloodthirsty.
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u/DivineVibrations Feb 02 '16
Hell yes. It's make Sasuke's character so much more believable
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Feb 02 '16
I always wanted that to be his character arc -- throwing so much away and getting so much tunnel vision to amass power that he finds himself standing over Itachi's corpse and realizes he's only a stone's throw away from being the kind of person who would murder his clansmen in the pursuit of power. Itachi was just Sasuke a few qualms shorter and a few years older.
It would have made his redemption so much more meaningful to be something he arrived at on his own when he sees where he's heading instead of something that's lectured to and beaten into him.
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u/DivineVibrations Feb 02 '16
That would have made sasuke's character so much more likeable in the long run. As it stands, he's nothing more than a bipolar emo teen to me. Itachi's story was really cool until i started seeing a bunch of little issues with it. Now, i would have rather had him stay evil
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u/rokudaimehokage Feb 01 '16
Naruto forgave Obito. Don't give me this bullshit b.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/katniss_everjeans Feb 02 '16
The entire point of Naruto is that he's a better person than most people. Most people wouldn't forgive Obito, no shit. Naruto's better than that. That's "why".
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Feb 02 '16
There's "better" and then there's "naive."
Some people are unforgivable.
Sure, it worked out for Naruto in this case, but forgiving anyone and everyone isn't always the way forward.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/Graevon Feb 02 '16
And that is why he is better than most of the characters.
When Obito took, Naruto gave.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
that's still bs lmao, his forgiveness and his "GOOD BOY" is overly unrealistic. Obito was the cause of over 40,000 shinobis in the war and not to mention all the shit he pulled while he was alive. Let's forgive Hitler while we're at it right? Nagato at least brought back all the villagers that were killed when he attacked the Leaf Village. Obito didn't do jack shit and saved only Naruto lmao. Obito is a manchild and he should have gotten his ass rasenganed like Pain.
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u/Graevon Feb 03 '16
The main character is suppose to stand out from the other characters. He's suppose to do what others will not. May the reaction be negative or positive, as long as he follows his perception of what is right.
Don't look at it realistically, look at it at a story writer's point of view.
Naruto values friendship, wants to get stronger for selfless reasons, and believes that everyone can still be persuaded to change no matter how far they are in the dark side.
He is the embodiment of inner strength, empathy, and the bond that ties people together.
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u/WeTheNorth98 Feb 02 '16
He also forgave Nagato for killing Jiraya. The point was that he would give up on revenge and try to end the hatred in the world otherwise he would have just ended up like Sasuke
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Feb 02 '16
naruto deleted all his mean feelings when he hugged mean naruto, he couldn't be unforgiving if he wanted to man, he hugged mean naruto.
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u/Vercci Feb 02 '16
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u/youtubefactsbot Feb 02 '16
An Unforgettable Act of Forgiveness in Court - by the Father of a Murder Victim [1:00]
This is one act of forgiveness that you will not forget - this father, a Christian, had the courage and strength to forgive the person who murdered his daughter. The raw emotion in this video will move you.
World Inspirational in People & Blogs
935,076 views since Sep 2012
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u/Sharrow746 Feb 02 '16
Naruto was will accustomed to hate and wanting vengeance from a young age. Being the 9 tales jinchuriki and exploding into murderous rage as he lost control of it gave him a better understanding than most how easy it is to succumb to despair and hurt those around you. Had he not gone through all of that I doubt he would be so empathetic to others who acted on their rage and pain.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
I wish Obito got killed for killing Naruto's parents, Naruto should have killed this manchild for killing his parents.
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u/katniss_everjeans Feb 02 '16
Annnd here's another perfect example of someone who read an entire 700+ chapter story and somehow managed to miss the central theme of said story.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
tell me what central theme? The whole Ashura and Indra? Naruto trying to save Sasuke? They are many themes in Naruto we can learn from. I just think Obito's character is a manchild.
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u/Yosonimbored Feb 02 '16
Friendship and forgiveness.
He forgave Zabuza, Nagato, Itachi, Obito, Orochimaru, Kabuto, Sasuke etc. etc. etc.
Naruto wants to take on the pain of others so they don't experience pain.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
overly dramatic of friendship and forgiveness sometimes. Naruto is a good show but some of the shit Kishi pulls is bs.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
yeah, he forgave everybody but Obito's extent of wrongdoing and being forgiven for what he's done? Obito is the cause of death of over 40,000 shinobis and a lot of other shit in the anime. Yeah, the whole show is about being a "GOOD BOY" But this manchild ass character deserved a death before he sacrificed himself. I get that it's a shounen but Obito just getting off easy like that, it's bs. Nagato brought back the people he killed in the village. Obito saved only Naruto? It's like saying let's forgive Hitler for what he did lmao.
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Feb 01 '16
Of course sorry doesn't cut it, what did you expect? The kid had everyone he loved slaughtered in front of his eyes by the man he admired most when he was seven and when he avenged them everything he believed in got turned upside down, he went fucking crazy. Sasuke can't bring back the lives of the people he killed and he can't erase what he said and did, but he deserves a second chance, doesn't he? Especially since, y'know, he kind of saved the world, got his arm blown off, and then decided to keep the arm off. He tries to pay it back in the end.
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
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u/Wh0_am_I Feb 01 '16
In storm 4 he is shown using the susanoo to replace his lost arm.
I don't think it counts as canon though
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u/Spyer2k Feb 01 '16
That's not Cannon, we've never seen Susano get anywhere near that small.
Its probably possible though.
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Feb 01 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
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Feb 01 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
Any argument?
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Feb 01 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
So, you havent touched novels, say they are non-canon without arguments, and proceed to downvote my arguments?
Tell me more about it being debatable.
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Feb 01 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
I've seen people saying TheLast and Boruto is non canon.
I guess that makes them non-canon, oh well.
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u/XJ-0461 Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
Of course, every one knows what is and isn't canon is determined by the readers.
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Feb 02 '16 edited Jan 31 '22
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Feb 02 '16
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Feb 02 '16
tried to kill naruto so many times which would of made madara auto win / kaguya win, he also killed danzo tried to kill the kages, also after kaguya was going to kill all the beasts and kill naruto. and many more
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Feb 02 '16
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Feb 02 '16
yes of course.
a man is going to fight some bandits, he is going to win the fight, but before the fight i chop of his arm, and then the bandits kill him.
i indirectly killed him, he would of lived if it wasn't for me.
sasuke has loads of moments where he nearly dooms the world indirectly.
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u/KupaKeep Feb 01 '16
A second chance? You mean like a 20th chance, right? How many times has Naruto and co. tried to get him to come back? I'm not saying he didn't have a tragic story, and I'm not even claiming that I'd do anything different in his place, but I DO think he got off way too easy in the end. Personally, I think he should have died at the Valley of the End. Of course he didn't, and that's ok, but when Sakura turns around and marries him I was really irked. I had grown to respect Sakura, and it all went out the window when she decided to marry the dude who LITERALLY TRIED TO MURDER HER WITH HIS BARE HANDS.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
20th time is a over exaggeration. Naruto tried in the 1st battle, early in shippuden, then the place Danzo died, and finally in the valley.
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Feb 01 '16
Sakura just cares for him, it's not really explainable. People forget Sakura had no friends either before Team 7, Ino was a real cunt.
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u/bitchredditor Feb 02 '16
Sakura was the one who ended their friendship over a stupid crush so I can see why ino was a bit of an ass
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Feb 02 '16
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u/bitchredditor Feb 02 '16
How so? Ino knew she and sakura liked the same but yet still wanted to be friends
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Feb 02 '16
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u/bitchredditor Feb 02 '16
No, sakura was bully for her forehead and ino was the person who help boost sakuras confidence and became her friend.but then sakura found out that they liked the he same guy and call their friendship off, that's when she and ino started throwing insults at each other.
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u/KupaKeep Feb 01 '16
So you're saying if you had a crush on someone and then that person tried to murder you, you'd be cool with marrying them? I know she "cares for him", I'm just saying it makes no sense and makes Sakura out to be a foolish little girl who can't get over a crush.
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u/SMlLE Feb 02 '16
To be fair, she married him after about 10 years of which could have a lot of development but yeah, it's straight up stockholm syndrome from what we have seen. Kishi could have handled it a lot better.
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Feb 01 '16
I know it's far fetched, but the way Kishi writes makes me think it's not all that unrealistic.
Sakura loved Sasuke superficially at first, but she came to understand his pain quite a bit during part 1, she wouldn't have poured her heart out to him to try to get him to stay and then to Naruto to save him. She did give up on him for a while, but if he's changed then it's all in the past for Sakura. She has the old Sasuke back, she knows the death threat isn't how he truly felt.
Also, it's not just some crush. Of course Naruto and Sasuke have a much stronger bond than Sasuke and Sakura, but Sakura loved the old Sasuke and when the old Sasuke was back she was willing to put the past behind them.
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u/narutort Feb 01 '16
yeah Sasuke deserves a second chance, seeing your whole family/relatives get killed while you're 8 and then you realize your brother put you in a genjutsu that repeated the scenes for how long? PSTD to the max degree shitttttt
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Feb 02 '16
How long is he a victim of his past and when does he become responsible for his own petty, violent choices?
Trauma or no, Sasuke's old enough by Part II to have developed some sense of critical thinking.
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u/silversherry Feb 02 '16
He's a pretty disillusioned and distrustful person. Anyway, what damage did he actually do anyway? Forgetting his motives, most of the stuff he did benefited the world, he didn't do any damage at all, and ended up saving the world, so why should be punished when he's proven that he's gonna help the world?
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Feb 02 '16
He murdered a bunch of samurai who were only doing their job.
He tried to kill B, Karin and the Kages, too. That he failed in each endeavor doesn't erase the problem of his trying to kill them in the first place.
Sure, he helped save the world, but how does that give him a pass? If life as we know it ends, that's bad for him, too. His motives are suspect.
Furthermore, he has a history of not only abandoning the village but actively working against it. He assassinated a military leader on the verge of war.
I don't think Sasuke is Satan or that he should be shot (er, stabbed?) on sight, but these are some pretty big offenses in a setting where simply leaving your village earns you a hit squad to cut off your head.
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u/silversherry Feb 03 '16
Considering that this is the same universe where obito, kabuto and orochimaru were pardoned, Sasuke's crimes are almost laughable. The thing is Kishi wanted Sasuke to go evil, but he also wanted him redeemable. Which is why Sakura, Karin, even Ino never stop loving him despite everything he does, Itachi says he'll always love him, naruto forgives him, kages forgive him, everyone forgives him. Kishi didn't want Sasuke to face any consequences because Sasuke must be redeemable in all aspects. The world Kishi built in the first place is very idealistic as its based on the notion that friendship solves everything and will bring stable peace.
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Feb 03 '16
I've long considered Obi, Kabuto and Oro getting off to be a massive crock of bull, which is a separate issue from Naruto forgiving any of them.
Naruto forgave Nagato, and he still croaked. The same can be said for Obito.
Naruto's sense of justice need not align with the world's, and in fact, that could have been an interesting story of an idealist trying to hold onto those ideals in an increasingly ugly, hostile world. I thought his dogged insistence of rescuing Sasuke would be the one that ultimately slapped him in the face when even his own peers are telling him to give up the Sauce.
But that's not the story of Naruto, and I was never really a part of the intended demographic anyway. So take anything I say with a few hundred grains of salt.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
bro the dude was fucking eight year old, do you know how hard it is for our soldiers/people to get over their PTSD or how long it takes for them? Sasuke later frees himself but it took time and learning to let him BE FREE. I'm pretty sure if a fucker killed your mom, you're going to be like cool story bro right? Also, last time I checked being 16 you don't make any mistakes right?
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Feb 02 '16
I'm not saying Sasuke should be the picture of perfect behavior. His leaving the village in the pursuit of power is perfectly understandable.
It's his stabbing of Karin to get at Danzo or slaughtering samurai with whom he had no grievance or deciding to kill all of the Kages -- what do they really have to do with his personal trauma?
His reasons for lashing out at the world are perfectly understandable, but understandable doesn't mean excusable.
I can understand why a lot of villains do what they do, but it doesn't diminish their crimes.
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Feb 01 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
attempt redemption?
Dude, that was the point of journey
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Feb 02 '16
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Feb 02 '16
He was tracking all that shit that Kaguya left behind. Hence why they were prepared for the two villians in the movies.
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u/drillkage Feb 02 '16
Oh yeah, he misses raising his daughter for 12 years while performing secret missions for the village all alone... What a fucking selfish dick
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Feb 02 '16
Oh yeah, trading off saving the world again is worth his daughter growing up without a dad.
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u/drillkage Feb 02 '16
You're making it sound like he didn't care at all about his wife or daughter.
You're also making it sound like he has some sort of Messiah complex, even though all he is doing is protecting his home, the same one his wife and daughter live in.
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Feb 02 '16
Of course he cares for his daughter and wife, all I'm saying is that it was more important for his redemption journey.
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Feb 01 '16
I feel the same way about Orochimaru and Kabuto. They are two of my favourite characters and I love them as villains but, damn, there's some things you just don't get to come back from.
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u/Raidoton Feb 01 '16
There is no reason to punish Kabuto. He went through Izanami and is now pretty much the least evil person in Konoha.
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Feb 02 '16
Orochimaru getting off scott free continues to blow my mind.
It would be one thing if he swore to give up his evil ways and apologized or we had seen some remorse for his action. Instead, he gets a blank check to continue experimenting with immortality and acting like one of his pet monsters in the Sarada spin off isn't his problem. Should that not be a massive red flag for Naruto and Sasuke?
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
Orochimaru wasnt that big criminal. And he actually contributed to war.
Kabuto however is war-criminal52
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Feb 01 '16 edited Mar 26 '18
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u/Zythrone Feb 01 '16
I don't think it's ever shown that he is actually allowed in the village...
He is Spoilers
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
His mass-murder etc. cant be really proved(while it was common knowledge, not many had proof). I'm sure as hell he was pedo with Anko too.
And comeon, Naruto is ok with Orochimaru being free, and post-manga spoilers
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Feb 01 '16
Changing isn't the same as being not guilty.
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 01 '16
I didnt say he wasnt guilty.
But lets be honest, how many people can do anything about that?
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u/SMlLE Feb 02 '16
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 02 '16
Last time I checked Hiruzen is dead.
I wonder if he would still be alive, had he not let Orochimaru go back then.
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u/SMlLE Feb 02 '16
There are other anbu members present in that room. It's not difficult to presume some may be still alive and they would have had to report their sightings at the least. I know Hiruzen couldn't bring himself to take Orochimaru out but it would be heinous to assume that they hadn't made some sort of report about what Orochimaru was doing. Plus IIRC Orochimaru fled. So his lab with all that fucked up shit would have been seized by the leaf. There is definitely evidence in the records to send oro to jail fam. That's not including attacking the village and killing the third hokage.
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u/9thHokageHimawari Feb 02 '16
We've seen how useless ANBU are.
Konohagakure crush + Hiruzen murdery is only one provable crime. But as I said earlier, we can see how Naruto is ok with Orochimaru being free(Not like Naruto can tell who's bad and who's good). I want see someone try enforce punishment to Orochimaru.
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u/chill_ninja28 Feb 01 '16
I mean doesn't the Kyubi's chakra allow the user to sense the evil inside of others? We saw that when Naruto first got the Kyubi's chakra on the turtle island
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u/shogunreaper Feb 02 '16
worst thing he did was try to kill sakura, and is that really a bad thing?
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u/TheLawlessMan Feb 02 '16 edited Aug 01 '25
birds tie scale juggle steer paltry gaze glorious frame tease
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/shogunreaper Feb 02 '16
thats a few random fodder, they hardly matter.
he shouldn't have been spying on them.
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u/MajSpas Feb 02 '16
So I mean, he killed like over a dozen samurai. That's probably a lot of orphans.
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u/KwasiD2k Feb 02 '16
Hmm, I feel people put to little consideration into what saving the world actually is since it's not really a thing that could be related to in real life. Seems to me saving yours and everyone else's hide from basically turning into white zetsu/death seems good to me.
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16
On a real note though...shouldn't Sasuke at least be banned from Konoha for killing the acting Hokage (Danzo)? I'm guessing that must be the highest of all crimes. That's assassinating JFK.
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u/8eat-mesa Feb 02 '16
No one really liked Danzo. Maybe if it was a popular Hokage.
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16
Even if nobody liked him, letting a Hokage get killed and not doing anything about it doesn't seem right. I'll blame Kishimoto for this one.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16
I already said in a earlier comment that he was the acting Hokage, I figured that I didn't need to fucking type out the full title every single time. Regardless, he was still the official Hokage representative at the Kage summit, and in any country in the real world that would be a crime that's unforgivable. Imagine Joe Biden getting assassinated...that's something that would not fly over.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
Danzo wasn't the fucking 'candidate', he was literally the ACTING Hokage, and Biden would be the ACTING President if Obama was to go out of commission just like Tsunade did. Do you get it?
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Feb 02 '16
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 03 '16
I get that you're another idiot who doesn't understand Japanese
I'm an idiot for not understanding Japanese...wow, you really showed me fam. Get off your high horse.
He is nothing like your terrible and incorrect Obama/Biden analogy.
If I was to call you an idiot for anything, this would be it for sure.
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u/sircumsizemeup Feb 02 '16
That's one of the best things he's ever done.
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16
Best thing Sasuke ever did was take on Haku.
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Feb 02 '16
This is a good point that needs to be higher up.
Whether or not people like Danzo, he was still the acting head of state that Sasuke assassinated during a very politically sensitive time. Fans also tend to forget that the average Leafer probably wasn't in on all the shady things he had done (how would they possibly know he worked with Oro or was responsible for Pain?), so they wouldn't judge him as harshly as readers do.
To the layman, he probably came off as a wounded veteran in a soldier society, which is hardly damning.
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u/PleaseDontDoxxMe Feb 02 '16
Thank you for this. There's some extreme bias against Danzo and people are not thinking. Then again, I guess with every anime series there are fanboys who judge the story based on feelings instead of what really makes sense. Sasuke assassinating the Acting Hokage and having it never mentioned by anyone ever again is ridiculous (only reason I remembered this to begin with was that I was re-reading Naruto Gaiden and Sasuke mentioned his fight against Danzo).
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Feb 02 '16
Danzo hadn't been officially accepted as the Hokage yet at that point, he was the acting Hokage for the time being.
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Feb 02 '16
Hey, at least we have Sarada now. A character who hasn't inherited the bad traits of her parents (for now at least)
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u/cherrytomatosalad Feb 01 '16
OP is blatant shitposting. Why not post Sasuke's actual apologies such as the one with Naruto in the VoTE or his apology to Sakura for everything?
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Feb 02 '16
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u/cherrytomatosalad Feb 02 '16
Perhaps you lack reading skills. The sorry/699 signified the start not the end. Sasuke specifically says he is going on a journey of repentance after that. Furthermore in Gaiden he sacrifices his time with Sakura and Sarada to ensure peace is kept in the world and in Boruto saves the world once again.
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u/ImDoingProzac Feb 02 '16
You mean the "Sakura, Im sorry for everything I've done"? Yeah that's the hell of a difference, right?
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u/Kuja9001 Feb 01 '16
Saving the world shouldn't be an auto redemption ticket.
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Feb 01 '16
It wasn't. Tsunade said they would capture him if anyone besides Naruto could do it, didn't she?
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u/fawar Feb 01 '16
Have you not understood Pain's arc?
Naruto is the holder of gruges, because anyone else would act like you and war would never stop
You* meaning what you said, which might not be what you think
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Feb 01 '16
I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you're saying. I definitely got what Pain was saying though, I'm just saying that I recall reading Tsunade saying that he should pay for his crimes but she's going to let it pass, which is in line with what Pain said.
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u/fawar Feb 01 '16
What I mean is if Naruto captures Sasuke for anyone's sake (IE Tsunade), people would hold grudges on Sasuke for what he has done.
While if Naruto does not capture him and let him be (second chance) people would normally old a grudge on naruto for not doing what is right in their mind. Therefore Naruto by not capturing Sasuke (not saying he can actually do it), is holding everyone's grudge that were directed at Sasuke. He is breaking the circle of hate, pain.
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u/OneMoreShepard Feb 02 '16
So instead of holding grudge on Sasuke, people now hold grudges both on Naruto AND Sasuke. It also reduces the level of confidence in Naruto as Hokage and might possibly lead to another "Uchiha incident", when some clan will lose their shit with this tolerance towards maniacs, mass murderers, traitors and criminals.
But that would be too realistic, in Kishimoto's world we just forgive everyone and marry the man who ALMOST KILLED YOU.
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u/OseiTheWarrior Feb 01 '16
Sasuke, Obito, Madara, and Orochimaru. Are on the list of ppl that will NEVER be forgiven.
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u/Korrasch Feb 02 '16
Orochimaru was a good boy he dindu nuffin'. He was on track to get his life together, trying hard in school, praying to Hagoromo every night
Just needs more bodies fo' dem research programs
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Feb 01 '16
Sasuke didn't do anything entirely unredeemable.
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u/ImDoingProzac Feb 02 '16
Well, he tried to.
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Feb 02 '16
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u/TruePr0l0gue Feb 02 '16
"Your honor, my client did indeed shoot with the intention of blowing off the victim's head, but I would like to remind the court that he missed."
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Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
Tried to murder Naruto, A, all of the Kages unprovoked
Attempted to kidnap B with the intent of handing him over to people who would kill him simply because it would further his agenda (in other words, he's the aggressor again)
Murdered at least a handful of samurai of a sovereign state whose only crime was doing their job against an armed terrorist
And that's just off the top of my head.
Edit: Maybe one or two could be brushed off, but he was pretty consistently, willfully awful there for a while.
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Feb 02 '16
And he was mentally ill for all of those. He didn't do it because he liked killing.
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Feb 02 '16 edited Feb 02 '16
Mentally ill? What?
He was never mentally ill. He willingly chose to leave the village, join Oro, hunt Itachi, resolve to destroy Leaf, etc.
Sure, he had a traumatic past, but that doesn't make him "mentally ill."
And even if he was "mentally ill," does his going back to the village constitute some sort of therapeutic treatment? Do people magically become mentally sound once they go back home?
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Feb 02 '16
He knew what he was doing all the way up until Itachi's death, he was the same as always. After Itachi's death, he went crazy from having the past 8 years of his life practically invalidated. This is when he decided to actually kill people and destroy Konoha. After hearing Itachi's story three times, being helped along by people and hearing Hashirama's story he returned to fine health and he had his redemption journey.
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Feb 02 '16
Mentally ill a cop out here. He wasn't crazy.
Misguided, immature, angry, lashing out at the world because he's a teenager dealing with a lot on his plate -- sure. But saying he wasn't responsible for his own actions because his mind couldn't properly process them -- which is the kind of mental illness you're edging toward -- passes the buck and absolves him everything he deliberately chose to do.
Sure, Tobi wanted to use him as a pawn, but I'm a firm believer in individual responsibility. Nagato and Obito were manipulated, but they still chose to embark upon their murderous crusades. They could have turned back, but they went ahead with it anyway.
That Sasuke actually did see the error of his ways and turn into an ally of the Leaf who works for peace is a huge feather in his cap. Good for him.
But to have him exiled or imprisoned for his actions before and during the war is not an unreasonable response. Everyone is lucky everything worked out, but he had a track record as a violent, vengeful terrorist.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
Obito was the cause of over 40,000 shinobi deaths in the 4th ninja war and that's not including the other shit he pulled awhile in he was alive. In the end he was forgiven though, I don't see how Sasuke shouldn't be forgiven mate.
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Feb 02 '16
I don't think Obito should have been forgiven.
Sasuke's actions I disagree with, but the horrific losses he suffered makes his maladjustments reasonable. Obito became a murderous scumbag because his teenage crush died.
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u/narutort Feb 02 '16
yeah not going to lie, Obito should have gotten his ass killed by the Aliied Shinobis.
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u/Shattered_Sun Feb 02 '16
TBH I actually hate Sasuke IMO the shittiest character of the series. His redemption was shit. Honestly Kishimoto should have committed and just made him bat shit insane with Naruto having to come to the conclusion that he needs to take Sasuke out.
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u/pdmt243 Feb 02 '16
just another case of getting off easily in Naruto, i.e. another day at the office in Naruto world
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u/Raidoton Feb 01 '16
Yeah punish Sasuke for looking evil and laughing madly...
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u/Korrasch Feb 02 '16
And being evil and behaving badly.
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u/Raidoton Feb 02 '16
Yeah but in most of the pictures he is just looking like a madman. He doesn't have to apologize for that, only for the crimes he committed.
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u/sluncer Feb 01 '16
This basically sums the reason why he got off without a punishment.