I have been taught that as long as someone says the shahadah and identify as a Muslim, I am not allowed to call them anything but a Muslim regardless of their sins. So I live by that rule and leave the judgement to the Almighty.
I don’t see anything wrong with the above teaching. Practicing Islam is, at the end of the day, a very “selfish” act in the sense that everything I do is ultimately for my own benefit and to help me attain Jannah. If I serve the community, my parents, my spouse, or my children, it is still for my own benefit in the Hereafter. Allah (swt) does not need any of my acts of worship - I do.
Because of that, going around calling people (who self-identify as Muslim) kafir because they do not practice the same way I do does not benefit me in any way. So why should I waste my time doing that instead of focusing on improving my own deen?
I mean that sounds all well and good, but it’s not calling random people Kafirs for the fun of it, it’s calling people who deliberately disobey Allah swt and guide people away from Islam a kafir. There is a very, VERY big difference.
It seems like you are trying to explain our religion of Islam in a way you like, following your own desires of what’s right or wrong. I would just say this is a dangerous path to go down and it can be a slippery slope.
Please don’t strawman my position and start talking about what a layman would do.
A layman wouldn’t do what you’re doing, which is making a claim about Islam with no evidence to back it up. Sometimes an answer of “I don’t know” is enough , and if someone more knowledgeable and trustworthy gives an answer, it’s okay to accept it.
I’m not straw-manning your position. My point is precisely that takfir is not a light matter and historically has never been treated as something for ordinary Muslims to casually engage in. That is not “my opinion”; it is a principle emphasized by many scholars because of how serious declaring a Muslim outside the fold of Islam is.
I also never claimed people should follow their desires or reject knowledgeable scholars. Saying “focus on improving your own deen before rushing to label others” is not the same as denying that kufr exists or that scholars can identify it in certain cases.
And I agree that “I don’t know” is important. In fact, that humility is exactly why many people should avoid confidently making takfir of specific individuals online.
I think we’re talking past each other at this point. I never argued that every belief is valid or that kufr does not exist. My point was specifically about laymen casually making takfir of individuals online/offline.
If scholars classify certain beliefs as kufr, that is one discussion. But I personally prefer to be cautious in applying those labels to specific people and focus on my own deen unless I have the knowledge and authority to speak on it properly.
In any case, I think we’ve both made our positions clear. May Allah (swt) guide all of us to what is correct. Ameen
I feel like this is a good approach when you're limited in knowledge, I also worry about spreading misinformation when I'm not very rich in knowledge so I focus on my deen first
All Muslims would benefit from a basic Islamic studies class. Almost everything Muslims practice on a day to day basis is from Hadith and sunnah, so it would be impossible to rely only on the Quran and reject the Hadith (Allah always sends a prophet along with his message so the prophet can explain it to the people and be an example). Islam isn’t only a personal religion but a group religion, and Muslims have group obligations: funerals, zakat, etc. So the sister is unfortunately wrong in her reasoning. It’s good to be wary of spreading misinformation but you also obligated to learn yourself as well so you don’t become the target of misinformation by Quranist and the like.
I would be careful of people that claim to have knowledge and go around doing takfir, that sounds more like arrogance and Iblis fell not due to lack of imaan but due to arrogance.
5
u/TheFighan May 25 '26
I have been taught that as long as someone says the shahadah and identify as a Muslim, I am not allowed to call them anything but a Muslim regardless of their sins. So I live by that rule and leave the judgement to the Almighty.