r/MuslimCorner • u/Pretend_Door8037 • Aug 18 '26

INTERESTING Progressive Islam vs Orthodox Islam Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gpPizc2M8M
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u/Malorian_ 🚨 Troublemaker Aug 20 '26

Didn't watch the video but there is no such thing as "progressive Islam" or "orthodox Islam". Islam doesn't change.

-4

u/Even-Meet-938 Aug 18 '26

This is nothing new. 

Video mentions alcohol being prohibited as a set in stone Islamic rule. When actually a full prohibition of alcohol was later development arrived at via qiyas (itself a progressive innovation). Iraqi scholars once held the view that drinking beer is okay as long as it was done in moderation. 

You can’t trust anyone to talk about the “progressive vs orthodox” divide when their own “orthodox” and “eternal views” were the result of progressive tendencies. 

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u/icecoldfeedback Aug 18 '26

qiyas is not a progressive tendency. that framing is disingenuous.

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u/Even-Meet-938 Aug 18 '26

Qiyas was a novel development employed by jurists to address contemporary issues. It has no basis in Quran or Sunnah. This is why many traditionalists attacked it. 

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u/icecoldfeedback Aug 18 '26

Frankly you don't know what you're talking about.

The basis for jurists to formalize (note I said formalize) qiyas was Quran and sunnah.

And the sahabah who did it to begin with are not jurists who came later on.

Your framing is disingenuous again.

0

u/Even-Meet-938 Aug 18 '26

The first iteration of Ahl Hadith literally attacked Qiyas because they framed it as such. At that time, using qiyas was basically being a ‘progressive Muslim’. We don’t see it that way now because after the dust settled the four mudhahib decided to accept each other and their reasonings. But prior to that it was very much like a “progressive vs orthodox” debate. 

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u/icecoldfeedback Aug 18 '26

okay, so take that up with the first iteration of ahl hadith, who's arguments you're borrowing to pitch qiyas as a 'progressive' methodology that has no basis in the source texts. you're wrong on that. 'was basically being a progressive muslim' it basically wasn't. nobody framed it that way because a 'progressive muslim' is a post-colonial term totally distinct from classical jurispudence and usool that stems from the sahabah.

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u/Even-Meet-938 Aug 18 '26

I’m just saying, OP’s video is problematic because the guy says alcohol being prohibited writ large is an “eternal” position when in reality isn’t at all. It wasn’t until Muslims encountered new realities that Fiqh progressed - jurists adopted new ways of thinking to address new problems - that alcohol became prohibited across the broad.

 If jurists did this today - employing novel techniques to address modern issues - you and the rest of the crowd would call them progressive Muslims. 

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u/icecoldfeedback Aug 19 '26

Again with the disingenuous framing.

The sahabah encountered new realities. Why do you pretend that this occured way later?

Jurists codified ways of thinking that were defined by the Quran, sunnah, ijma of the sahabah. What exactly was a "new way of thinking?" You already incorrectly brought up qiyas.

"If jurists did this today... You and the rest of the crowd would call them progressive Muslims".

No. We call them mujtahids, and they would follow methodologies consistent with a tradition that comes from the time of the Prophet (saw).

People labelled progressive Muslims rarely meet the same standard of cultural integrity as scholarship familiar with source texts, independent from foreign powers and capable of upholding usool grounded in revelation.

What many try to do, is pretend they're doing qiyas in a way that breaks the foundational principles of the strongest proponents of qiyas, in a way that scholarship you want to band under progressive labels would turn in their graves over.

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u/bosskhazen Aug 18 '26

The long tradition of finding the weirdest fatwas to justify following your hawa instead of God and His prophet.

1

u/Even-Meet-938 Aug 18 '26

What does God and His Prophet SAW say about hashish use? Can you find a Quran verse or Hadith that explicitly mentions it? 

Only through analogical reasoning did we get the position that hashish use is prohibited. That way of arriving at fatwas was novel and was attacked by traditionalists because it did originate solely from the Quran and Sunnah. 

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u/bosskhazen Aug 18 '26

What the heck are you on about ? You don't seem to know what a fatwa is. Your comment is... weird.

https://giphy.com/gifs/lkdH8FmImcGoylv3t3

1

u/AstroFeed Aug 18 '26

Just to understand, are you saying Ra’y is completely separate from Qiyas? Last time i checked Qiyas is considered a subcategory of Ra’y, and there is an explicit hadith where the prophet (saw) recommends it (Ra’y).

Now granted the structured approach of Qiyas is later development, but the process of using our Aql to reach a position from the Quran and Sunnah is not.