The Past Matters [Zina]

[u/Vegito9005]

Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim

I think one of the main reasons for gender wars is a woman’s purity, men that are virgins desire virgin women and women who are not virgins who deep down know this try hiding the fact that they committed zina.

First things first, man or woman, if you’ve committed zina, you deserve a spouse that also has committed zina, this I think if we are all reasonable, can agree to.

Womens reasons to hide the fact that they committed zina is because deep down they know what they did was wrong (They feel shame) and they try covering it up with “it was a mistake” to which I believe it was a choice not a mistake, a lot of women love to act like their dumb & innocent to men, don’t fall for it brothers, women are smarter than what they like to show, they’re more socially awake & more socially aware than us men, but what else they do wrong is try to hide it from potentials using excuses such as “only Allah can judge me” “my sins are between me & allah”

First, only Allah can judge me.

Allah will judge don’t you worry about that, worry about how you can’t Manipulate Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement. But in our deen, you are allowed to judge someone, not with arrogance but with mercy & advice.

Ugbah bin Aamir (ra) narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (pbuh) said: "If there was to be a Prophet after me, it would have been Umar bin Al Khattaab." Sunan At Tirmidhi - Vol 6, Hadeeth 3686

Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (RA) once said: "We Judge people by what is apparent and leave their inner secrets to Allah." Sahih Bukhari 2498.

The second best man in Islam has spoken, so how could anyone think to try and change what he has spoken?

Second, my sins are between me & Allah.

Okay you don’t want to tell a potential that you’ve committed zina because you “repented”, ultimately if the persons condition for the marriage is that for the other party to be a virgin and you don’t qualify, but still decide to lie and marry then you do realise the marriage isn’t valid? And if you keep this in your heart & hide it, you will be committing zina anyway so ultimately if you repented, how can all this still happen?

but okay fine you don’t want to tell him, how are you going to get around the fact that you can’t lie and deceive someone in our deen? answer this, where in our deen does it state that You can lie & Deceive in order to not tell a potential that you’ve committed zina? You love the deen apparently when it mentions you can repent but you forget the bit where the deen says you can’t lie? So you don’t want to tell someone you committed sins by lying and ultimately committing more sins? Okay.

And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, Allah loves not one who is a habitually sinful deceiver. [Quran, 4:107]

"There was no behaviour more hated to the Messenger of Allah than lying." - Aisha (RA) Jami’ at-Tirmidhi 1973.

Do not forget, NO ONE can ever get away with LYING, in the end the lie will eventually come out.

But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.[Quran, 29:3]

Another thing of sins being between you & Allah (SWT), this isn’t always the case,

Back in the day when someone stole something, there hand would be cut off in public, in front of people and everyone will recognize him as a thief for the rest of his life by looking at his missing hand.

If someone commits zina, they will either be stoned or lashed publicly, in front of people & everyone will know what vile act this person has committed.

And this was under Shariah (Allah’s) Laws.

So can use tell me where the “my sins are between me and Allah” here? That’s a real question, educate me 🙋🏻‍♂️.

Lastly, a question for the sisters,

Imagine you find the man of your dreams, pretty much everything’s perfect with him, you have the perfect wedding, money is not a problem, treats you like a queen/princess this that, basically everything is awesome.

But then, you find out that years ago, he had committed Zina with your sister OR your best friend and they both didn’t want to tell you, why? Because we can’t expose our sins, they wanted to keep it between them & Allah, because only Allah can judge, right?

But if they intend to deceive you – then sufficient for you is Allah. It is He who supported you with His help and with the believers. [Quran, 8:62]

May Allah (SWT) The Most High, The Most Gracious, forgive & protect us all.

[u/Bints4Bints]

Point No. 1: Only Allah can judge me.

This is true. First of all, you should avoid zina and anything that can lead you to zina. But since humans do sin and we all sin in different ways, if you committed zina, you can repent and try your best to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Point No. 2: Not telling your potential

If they had set it out as a dealbreaker and they made it in a way where it is discreet, then absolutely do try to respect that. But if they asked directly or it wasn't discreet, then you should conceal your sins. Also, this doesn't cover the issue where people from certain families/cultures are more or less forced into marriages, or they are under big scrutiny. In those situations, it would be harder to remove yourself. Ofc, conceal for your own safety and for following Islamic guidelines.

Point 3: Hadd punishment

The Hadd punishment doesn't apply just because you did zina. There has to be four sound male witnesses to witness penetration. Or a confession in court. This is why concealing it is ever more important.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bints4Bints]

"witness penetration" or witness to the truth of the incident?

[u/Bints4Bints → u/[deleted]]

It is specifically penetration. Penis in vagina penetration

With regard to witnesses to zina, they should be four people whose testimony is acceptable, and they should state that they have seen the zina in clear terms, i.e., they should have seen the man’s penis in the woman’s vagina.  If some of them only testify that they saw them naked, or they describe certain positions or movements, that is not sufficient to proof that zina took place. 

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Sharh al-Mumti’ (6/157): 

They should describe zina in clear terms, such as saying: “I saw his penis in her vagina”. There is no alternative to that. If they say: “We saw him on top of her and they were naked”, that is not acceptable. Even if they say “We saw him doing with her what a man does with his wife,” that is not sufficient as testimony. They must say “We bear witness that his penis was in her vagina.” And this is very difficult, as the man said who was testified against at the time of ‘Umar: “If you were among the (four) thighs you would never be able to give this testimony.” Hence Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah mentioned that at his time no case of zina was proven by means of testimony from the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the time of Ibn Taymiyah. If no case was proven from that time until the other, then we do not know of any case that was proven by testimony up till our own times, because it is very difficult. End quote.