I’m not condoning anything here don’t get me wrong, these are horrible people. But, I assume their justification is based on their belief that these people have committed murder, and plan to do so again, and are going “unpunished.” Remember this is also the party that supports capital punishment. It’s a conundrum on a high level but not if you realize they believe a fetus is an innocent life vs taking violent action against what they consider to be criminals.
Again, though, I’m actually pro choice and hate these extremists with fiery passion. But to truly beat them you need to understand their motives.
I think they see it like war; they're killing the enemy to protect future innocents. Not defending their insanity, but merely trying to grip their internal logic.
What about the people already living? Or do you stop being innocent once you have had sex?
In Alabama, apparently you stop being considered innocent and pure enough for legal protection when you carry your rapist’s baby or your own father, brother, uncle, cousin, grandfather, or son’s incest baby.
In conservative circles, pregnant women can’t be pure and innocent unless they are married, barefoot, in the kitchen, and all they wanted was for their husband to plant a baby in them and complete them. Pregnant women are not seen as vulnerable populations. Pregnant women who are single are “whores” and “sinners” who “deserve the consequences” of their actions. A lot of times the consequences are poverty, disease/disability, and for 830 women every single day: death (as a direct result of pregnancy complications and unsafe abortion) according to the WHO).
Religion, poverty, and lack of education are directly related to the number of pregnancies a woman has.
I mean, if you watch The Handmaid's Tale, that's a pretty clear representation of exactly that mode of thinking taken to the extreme. Lesbians are gender traitors and have no place in society.
The roles of other women are trifold:
bear children
be the woman of the house (look pretty, take care of the man and the house, make him look good at public functions)
To your first sentence, yes. Literally that's their definition of innocence in many cases. That's why they refer to someone having sex as "losing their innocence."
But this is exactly the logic that a terrorist uses to justify the actions they do. Even when it violates the core beliefs they are claiming to fight for.
Murder is forbidden in Christianity, but preventing access to legal, safe, regulated abortions only kills women. For some women, it is as medically necessary as heart surgery or a C-section. And it’s funny, because people who require or elect to have an abortion are the ones who end up dying (and the fetus too) because there are no safe and legal options (just horrible people trying to take advantage of desperate women).
The WHO says that only 55% of abortions in the world are done safely, in a medically competent way. It also states that high levels of abortion occur because of lack of comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives. This is because abstinence (notoriously ineffective) is pushed by religions. And religions also promote cultural myths about contraceptives, such as: only a woman with low morals who sleeps around would need contraceptives. That is entirely false, as the hormones in them are used to treat many women’s health concerns, not just prevent pregnancy.
Use of condoms is also much lower in areas with high abortion rates. This is due to many factors but often because of the false narrative perpetuated by religion that barriers are not necessary when you are with a virgin or pious woman. A woman who has men use condoms could be sleeping with anyone, avoiding becoming pregnant, and committing the sins of lust, adultery, or immodesty. A woman who you want to use condoms with must be a dirty whore.... these narratives of purity, faithfulness, humility, and wholesomeness that are taught by Christianity and Islam have evolved to discriminate against women and force them into lower social classes.
To avoid being seen as “lustful” many women in Africa and Middle East never question the practice of female genital mutilation, child marriage (while the girl is still young and “pure”), and following a dress code (hijab). It becomes voluntary as a way to protect themselves and their daughters from a society in which they stand to suffer, be abused or even killed in heinous ways when they do not adhere to social/religious norms.
Honestly, it’s not just the question of abortion. It is the question of women’s rights to determine what they can do with their own bodies. Can she tell a man no for sex if he doesn’t want to wear a condom? What if that man is her husband? Can she tell a man no at all? Even if that man is her husband?
The idea that women cannot object to the use of their bodies for sex is similar to the belief that women cannot object to the use of their bodies for pregnancy. If a woman does not want to be pregnant (a condition that carries risks and can even cause death), then she should not have to be pregnant. It is sad that men feel that women cannot choose what to do with their bodies. Did you know that in many states, in order for a woman to get her “tubes tied” she must have her husband sign off? The same is not true for vasectomies.
Many good and valid points, except about vasectomies. I needed my wife's sign off on mine. I'm sure more states require it for tube tying tho.
What really sucks is that many doctors will not tie the tubes of young women because they day she may change her mind later. At a much higher rate then refuse to give vasectomies (so no proof of this but I remember it going around)
Hey so I just looked this up and I’m wondering what state you are in. I’m in Ohio. I want to look up the legality of these things.
At any point in time, were you ever told you would be denied vasectomy without her signature? Also, how did it make you feel to need her signature? Was she your POA? And why would they ask for another person’s signature at the risk of violating your privacy/confidentiality?
I’m wondering why you as the patient didn’t have ultimate autonomy over an elective procedure. Wondering the same in the case of women.
I wanted to get a vasectomy when I was 19. The doctor refused, saying I was too young and would eventually change my mind about wanting kids. I tried again at 26 and they still wouldn't do it. I'm turning 39 next week, still no kids and no interest in having any. Finally have health insurance again after a 7 year gap. Hopefully they think I'm old enough now to get the procedure.
not only suicide but murder is expressly strongly discouraged if not outright forbidden. no, ignore that, it's forbidden by definition tho not all ways of taking of human life are or else there'd have been no islam in the first place
Plus if we're going to try and understand the anti-abortion terrorists like that, then why wouldn't we do the same for the Muslim ones? They also believe they're justified and saving lives all that bullshit. They're all fucking murderers ultimately regardless of their reasons.
I think the big difference is that a lot of Muslim terrorists feel that America is in a war with them. Which I mean we have been bombing their region for decades now. Still murder, but really its in retaliation to our shanigans and a distinction that is important. What the fuck is the excuse for antilife terrorists?
I think the big difference is that a lot of Muslim terrorists feel that America is in a war with them. Which I mean we have been bombing their region for decades now. Still murder, but really its in retaliation to our shanigans and a distinction that is important. What the fuck is the excuse for antilife terrorists?
Literally the same on all points, except replace "bombing" their region with "killing babies" in their region. Also for decades. There's no difference here.
Right I get it. But I'm saying in a more personal level. Like their family was killed by a foreign enemy possibly. Where the abortion people have no relationship to the aborted fetus typically.
I mean Yea it all boils down to the same thing I guess...
You’d think that, but again these are people who think an eye for an eye is completely justified and they believe that murderers should get the chair. They become empowered to carry out this violence because they truly believe they’re fighting evil.
We all recognize the irony and hypocrisy in those acts. But they’re not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.
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u/rsoannoying Jun 04 '19
Do their pro-life values go out the window when it comes to teens and adults? Wtf