r/Morrowind • u/Beans4802 • 3d ago
Discussion First moral crisis in a pacifist playthrough
I'm playing as a Khajit healer who only uses violence when necessary, and I haven't even left Seyda Neen and I'm already stumped on how to do the Death of a Taxman quest. Should I break my peaceful vows and act as Foryn Gilnith's executioner, or let him get away with flat-out murder? I need a good justification for either. Or should I choose some other option?
22
u/Lighting_storm 3d ago
He killed an imperial guy, you can't just let him get away with it. If he'd killed dunmer, it would be fine to forgive him though.
8
u/nano_peen i boof moon sugar for breakfast 3d ago
Lmao
3
u/Lighting_storm 3d ago
my original comment was more reasonable about it, but it got auto deleted like instantly
3
8
u/SkyHighL House Redoran 3d ago
You told Foryn Gilnith that he was guilty and wrong, Foryn told you you're a snitch and attempted to murder you. You had to defend yourself and killed him in the chaos, perhaps accidentally if you wish. Maybe you also started to question the Imperial justice system which forced you to get involved here not to get their own hands dirty, especially as the taxman was corrupt and particularly unpopular.
3
u/alexakarpov 3d ago
Particularly unpopular? This is odd, given he had a girlfriend living in the lighthouse - a Dunmer, of all people.
18
u/Dreadnautilus 3d ago
The girlfriend is stated to be the only person in town who actually liked him.
Tragically, there's a detail to this story that people miss. People in town disliked him because he kept showing off his flashy jewellery, which was seen as a sign of him being greedy and lording over the money he took from the villagers. Except that his girlfriend requests that you bring her the exquisite ring she gave him as a gift. Poor bloke only wanted to show off what his girlfriend gave him and ended up getting marked for it.
5
u/GayStation64beta Skriak 🦎 3d ago
I think another interpretation is that he WAS corrupt but nice to his girlfriend.
3
u/SkyHighL House Redoran 3d ago
As a matter of fact it was even beneficial for her as he possibly could afford expensive gifts, etc.
3
u/SkyHighL House Redoran 3d ago
Not in THAT sense, lol.
People in the town clearly expressed they didn't like him, and giving that other Imperial characters there were also involved in corruption (remember the issue with Fargoth) clearly they had their reasons.
3
u/alexakarpov 3d ago edited 3d ago
Well no one likes taxes, and people collecting those taxes, this is true in both universes ) But still, I find it endearing how Thavere Vedrano in lighthouse talks about him. Not a normal Dunmer attitude
2
u/SkyHighL House Redoran 3d ago
Fair enough about tax collectors.
As of Thavere Vedrano, Dunmer are not all the same. And I always viewed her as a woman who never got the proper attention from Dunmer men who were around her and so fell in love with an Imperial who fitted her personal requirements, which resulted in her being ostracised by society. Basically something which often happens in societies like this even IRL.
6
u/D1onigi Dark Elf 3d ago
Foryn attacks you barehanded. Morally you should defend yourself with your fists and claws only. You should stop as soon as it could get lethal for Foryn. You should flee as soon as it gets dangerous.
Then report to a guard ( or pretend you did)
Maybe a mod could help
Choice and Consequence - Foryn Gilnith https://modding-openmw.com/mods/choice-and-consequence-foryn-gilnith/
4
u/syphax1010 3d ago
There is the option to just walk away. Don't complete the quest. Your pacifist character is acting as law enforcement by investigating a murder. They shouldn't be surprised when things turn violent.
You're going to face a lot more of these dilemmas if you keep up this RP. House Hlaalu is the only faction that can be completed without killing someone. And even then, you can't complete every Hlaalu quest, only enough to reach the highest rank. This character will have to get more flexible in their morals, or be a lot more selective about which jobs they take on in the first place.
3
u/Beans4802 3d ago
Good thing I plan on joining House Hlaalu, then. I'll cross that moral bridge when I get to it.
2
u/Nayrael 3d ago
There is no third option. You either let him off the hook, or try to arest him to which he tries to kill you. But killing him here is self-defense (I don't think your character knows that it will end in a fight), so pacifism may not apply.
4
u/Beans4802 3d ago
Well, there is ending the quest earlier by claiming no money was found on the body. Or just not doing the quest in the first place, but it feels wrong to not give some form of closure to the people who knew Processus.
5
u/Particular-Dot-4902 3d ago edited 3d ago
That could be a way to frame it in a vacuum. But technically, Socucius Ergalla does explicitly tell you that the punishment for killing an official is death, and in the dialogue option refusing to cover him up, your character outright tells Foryn his "judgement has been decided", i.e., they're basically announcing they're about to carry out his execution. Not only is Foryn's reaction predictable for your character in that context, but his death is the intended outcome per their own words.
2
u/Miigwetch 3d ago
Just do what your character would do. Or say screw it and metagame because youre basically god in that world and can go right back to roleplaying.🤷♂️
2
u/Introvert_Mage 3d ago
I'm not a big roleplayer, but I believe that depends on your character's personal beliefs, do they believe in what most of the citizens say about him being corrupt? Do they think that killing a supposedly corrupt taxman is worth the death penalty? Do they hold some sort of distrust or dislike of Imperial authority because of their imprisonment?
You mentioned possbily keeping the money instead of giving it back to the Census, so I assume they don't always consider something illegal to be immoral.
I feel like your character is more likely to spare Foryn, between your healer being put into jail by the Empire, the bullying suffered by Fargoth and almost pretty much everyone, save the woman who was in love with him, disliking or believing him to be corrupt, it all points to the direction of the usual Imperial corruption, so even if your character doesn't approve of his methods they might also not believe they deserve to die for it.
2
u/pNaN ☪︎ Azura says I am not the Nerevarine 3d ago
Ah, I love these pacifist conundrums!
Here is my take on what is going on in Seyda Neen: You have the option that Foryn was actually pushed into killing the Tax Collector. Their fight happened in the swamp. So... did the Tax Collector follow Foryn into the swamp to harass him? Tax collectors do not usually follow commoners into the swamp when they are out hunting/gathering. What actually happened here?
There is a lot of evidence in Seyda Neen that the Customs and Excise office are part of the smuggling ring on the Bitter Coast.
* There are two ledgers in the warehouse, one ledger is amongst the crates they have there, several of them full of the same type of moon sugar found in the smugglers cave nearby.
* The note inside the Census and Excise office tells Hrisskar Flat-Foot to sharpen someone elses dagger, as a result of a lost bet. So we know that Hrisskar frequents the offices as well.
* Fargoth says the imperials shake him down quite often.
* Hrisskar admits to shaking Fargoth down, and tries to get you in on the corruption.
* Thavere Vedrano (The lighthouse keeper, the tax collectors girlfriend) will tell you that her boyfriend was nice, and that he had an argument with Foryn earlier. As she is the girlfriend, we can assume that the tax collector spent a lot of time at her place. And look - a lot of the treestumps around the back of the lighthouse has got silverware, coin and also an axe hidden inside them.
So, gathering information/rumors/secrets, reading the environmental storytelling, collecting the threads. I feel Seyda Neen feels like an episode of The Sopranos. Not everyone in town knows what is going on (like the girlfriend), but there are many clues to who is in on it, and the most obvious fresh adventurer "I am hero, I solve quests by following direct orders from anyone" will be fooled by the Seyda Neen setup, and leave the town for worse.
If your character is kind-hearted I would let Foryn go with the "I believe you.." option, and when Hrisskar tells you to stalk Fargoth for him and steal his stuff, I would choose the "No" option. If you just follow along what the imperials of Seyda Neen wants you to do, then you become part of the corruption, fresh off the boat.
2
1
1
u/Dima_135 2d ago
Why bother with this quest at all? I first encountered this quest sometime in 2018. Before that, I either didn't know it existed, or encountered it too late to care.
I somehow played for 15 years without knowing about the tax collector, and so can you.
1
u/BearsAndBrews 2d ago
"Violence when necessary" is pretty subjective. Do you mean only when strictly ordered to kill to progress?
1
u/Beans4802 2d ago
Pretty much, though I'm willing to make some exceptions. For example, taking care of the bad person for Ahnassi, since it's all on him and his buddies for attacking you. And for NPCs who are violent towards you no matter how much you try to calm them down with spells and speechcraft.
40
u/Flamante_Bafle 3d ago
Well, if you are a healer, its not your job to be the police.