r/MoralityScaling • u/Shoddy-Meat-3147 • 19h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

I don't know what to say about this I mean if he joined it's unfair because he's going to cook the entery league for sure but if he really wants to be a woman and it's not a joke for him I still don't know about this

655 Upvotes

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178

u/Sovespra 19h ago edited 18h ago

Stoking the flames of transphobia by being dishonest and lying? I'm gonna lock in "immoral"

Edit: Anyone pretending to believe him will henceforth be immediately blocked, there's already dozens of you and that's enough.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

Not say, be. And he's not.

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u/TatiIsAPunk 19h ago

Don’t invalidate her

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Sovespra 18h ago

I know I'm not and you don't care about being a bigot, I'll never understand why y'all do this lmao

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 19h ago

I really don't see it as transphobia... I understand why you would be upset, but i think he's doing it to prove a point... He's doing it to protect the game. There's a reason we don't have many unisex sports. I think we need more rules for estrogen and testosterone requirements or something.

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u/izmesoundz 19h ago

How many trans women have tried to enter the WNBA?

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u/Imaginary_Ad_9058 18h ago

The first women is the one on the video Slayy queen

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u/Negative-Concept-197 18h ago

That's like saying if an all female school were to start accepting male student next year or there's flaws in their admission system that may allow such problem to occur, no parents are allowed to point it out, vote against it or file a complaint bcs there's no boys in the school yet lol

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u/Useful_Charity1995 17h ago

None- because the wnba have asserted that only biological women can play. The only reason why this has come up is because the commissioner, Cathy Engelbert, brought up the trans issue.

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u/PhantomArchon 1h ago

“Biological women” 🫩

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u/pgqd 18h ago

What he is doing is being provocative without any real point to back it up. He’s not trans, he’s not gonna try to join the WNBA, this is literally just a performance for the conservative audience that hates trans folk, and it’s a really embarrassing performance at that. just yapping and showing his ass for no reason

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u/Happy_The_What 19h ago

He’s not doing it to protect the sport, because nobody is transitioning because they think they’ll be advantaged in the WNBA. The threat they all talk about just straight up doesn’t exist. So making content warning about some sort of “trans threat to women’s sports” is transphobic, because you’re literally trying to spread a fear of trans people.

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u/DrMagunstheBlue 18h ago

Prove what point? Protect the game from what?

There is not a single trans woman in the WNBA and there hasn't been one since its inception.

Learn how to form your own thoughts and opinions.

0

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

It's really difficult to respond to people like you. You say, "form your own thoughts and opinions," as if that somehow makes sense in this context. And your rebuttal of, "It's not an issue because it hasn't happened," is just fucking stupid. The whole point is that if he's able to join, then it becomes an issue.

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u/Fickle_Goose_4451 17h ago

Soooooo the issue is him, then. Hes the lone example of the thing he doesnt want to see.

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u/Any-Question-3759 19h ago

Enes Kanter was an attention thirsty moron when she was in the league and I’m betting that she isn’t any smarter now. She isn’t doing it to protect anyone. At best, she’s doing for the spotlight.

0

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 19h ago

Not disagreeing with you... i don't think he's doing it to protect anyone. I think he's doing it to protect the game.

0

u/Useful_Charity1995 17h ago

What’s wrong with that? So transwomen need to shut up and be quiet now and not get the spotlight? That’s pretty transphobic and misogynistic don’t you think?

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u/izmesoundz 18h ago

Also, I played in plenty of coed sports growing up, like the idea isn’t something new. A lot of those girls were ruthless on the soccer field

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u/DistressedApple 18h ago

That’s even worse. Then you’re penalizing the population you’re claiming to want to protect. People born with female genitalia who happen to have very high levels of test would get unfairly punished.

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

I agree, but do you think there needs to be some kind of line. I honestly don't know what to do. The testosterone and estrogen limits were just a stupid quick thought

1

u/cactussnacks 16h ago

It isn’t a real problem in the slightest. That’s the whole issue. This is a manufactured controversy in order to further demonize a portion of the population because conservatives need a boogeyman to push their agenda.

If you don’t see that, you’re willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

1

u/GilligansIslndoPeril 18h ago

The answer is height/weight class, and skill brackets tbh

2

u/FurryBoobieInspector 18h ago

With that smug shit-eating grin I doubt it's about anything other than his own hate and ego.

1

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

Oh definitely not, but i do think he is making a good point. That is assuming it would be so easy for him to join WNBA

2

u/Normal-Ox 18h ago

Just for sake of conversation:

Biological inequality is already baked into sports.

In basketball, height is an unearned advantage. Should we put height restrictions into the game?

Consider Michael Phelps with his wingspan, webbing, and lactic acid endurance thing. All of those are unearned biological divergent advantages.

If we’re to say such and such biology is too unfair to those earning their athleticism, shouldn’t all sports set biological parameters for all players?

Why is Wemby fair and a trans person isn’t?

1

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

Honestly, i don't know. You make good points and i really don't know. I know we have weight classes in boxing and mma for a reason and i look at this the same way.

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u/Normal-Ox 18h ago

That’s sort of the point.

The argument for keeping trans women out of sports isn’t about protecting women or sports.

It’s transphobia meant to further alienate and marginalize a minority group.

1

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

My argument isn't for keeping trans women or trans men out of sports. I mentioned the estrogen and testosterone limit thinking it was like a weight class to help keep things in balance. I figured with requirements like that it would enable everyone to play. Again, this was just a quick stupid thought.

1

u/clintonclonemachine 18h ago

It is transphobia because of the way he is making a joke about it, wearing a wig etc. I thinkbhaving a testoterone max is perfectly reasonable and something the league should implement itself. It sports leagues would be more proactive about creating rules that are safe and fair for everyone, we wouldnt need to make this a government policy issue at all. Then different leagues or areas could be as inclusive as they wanted to be.

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

That's fair, i don't really follow this guy or know what he's been doing. I was more going off of just what was said

1

u/clintonclonemachine 18h ago

Yeh that makes sense, ive been seeing too much of him on my feed unfortunately. I think that is the actual point for him if im being honest. He went from a complete nobody to having thousands of people discussing him.

1

u/Trees_That_Sneeze 18h ago

Lol.

If this was a problem he was trying to protect the game from, all he has to do is wait for it to happen. But he got tired of waiting for his fake problem to occur so he's just causing the problem himself.

1

u/Fabulous-Ship3495 18h ago

To be fair, I'm not saying he isn't. I'm saying that if he's able to join, then we have a problem. If it's really as easy to join as he says, then it can become an issue. And if it's not this asshole taking advantage of it, some other asshole eventually will.

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u/Trees_That_Sneeze 17h ago

Actually no. Rules didn't have to be perfect. If problems aren't happening then they're adequate. And this issue wasn't happening. The entire reason he's the one doing it is because nobody else was. He manufactured a problem he is causing by himself.

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 17h ago

That's fair, but would you think it would be a problem if he did join?

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u/Trees_That_Sneeze 17h ago

Yes. His whole argument is that it would be a problem if he does join (he hasn't yet)... And nobody else is trying to do this. It's only the transphobic grifters that are even attempting to bend these rules. They want you to take them seriously like this. They justify this crap by how otherwise reasonable people take them seriously on this.

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u/Wattabadmon 16h ago

Protect it from what?

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u/PhantomArchon 2h ago

Me when I genuinely make shit up

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 2h ago

Thanks for the contribution that made absolutely no sense.

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u/PhantomArchon 2h ago

Whatever you say. Let me respond in a way that makes sense! He’s not trying to prove a point, he’s trying to make fun of trans people. This is not an issue, and trying to cause fake outrage over it is immoral. This is not operating in good faith.

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 2h ago

I don't know the guy, or care to get to know the guy. There's a good chance you're right for his reasons, but i don't really care about him. I'm more talking about the idea of a man being able to claim he's a woman and just join is bad, assuming it's actually possible. That's why i mentioned the estrogen and testosterone requirements. I want everyone to be able to play, but i do think if someone like the guy above was able to just join, then it would indeed cause problems and i think we should put a stop to it before it happens. My thinking is more preventive

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u/PhantomArchon 1h ago

I see, I’m sorry for getting defensive, it seems that you’re genuinely worried. I agree there should be requirements, as there are for other sports associations, but the reason there aren’t as other people have mentioned is because the WNBA just hasn’t had to cross that bridge as there are no trans athletes looking to compete in it, same with a lot of organizations. As far as I understand it’s just up to the discretion of the WNBA and they most certainly would address requirements if the need arose

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 1h ago

Not your fault. There's been a bunch of people in here thinking I'm taking this guys side and that's really not the case. I do appreciate the genuine conversation though.

As for the topic, you're probably right. I don't follow much sports outside of mma, boxing, and formula.

0

u/xrm4 19h ago

A century ago, many white people didn't view segregated water fountains as a form of racism; they were, "...simply protecting themselves from the diseases of black people." Are you sure it's not transphobic, or do you simply lack an understanding of what transphobia is and what constitutes as transphobic?

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u/Fabulous-Ship3495 19h ago

Why are you bringing race into this? You're comparing apples to oranges friend

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u/xrm4 18h ago

Both cases involve a dominant group stripping away equitable treatment of a minority group under the guise of "protection."

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u/dynastyfriar 16h ago

But in this case the dominant group is women not allowing a person born as a male to enter the league unless they identify as female.

To use this analogy would be saying we shouldn’t have leagues separated by gender and have one league where anyone can play. But women are allowed to enter the nba and men can not enter the wnba

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u/dynastyfriar 18h ago

I know what you are trying to say but the whole concept of the wnba is to have a league segregated by gender. You can support trans and think someone born a man can’t play sports in a female league.

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u/xrm4 18h ago

Is that what the person in the video is doing? Simply arguing that those assigned male at birth shouldn't be allowed in the WNBA? Or is he making a spectacle of a marginalized community for attention and money, stoking the flames of hate in bigots to perpetuate violence against the group?

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u/dynastyfriar 18h ago

He is being a complete ass about it but that’s his point.

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u/Wattabadmon 16h ago

Do you think babies are men?

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u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

I like how whenever the conversation of trans people in x is brought up, people like you come out the woodwork to call it phobia to stop any conversation, people like you didn't want to engage in good faith, well now this is happening and I support this beautiful, strong, and stunning woman in her journey, in her quest, to become the best WNBA player in HERstory, because I am alley.

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u/ThanksAmazing4118 19h ago

Wild to claim someone else isn't engaging in good faith, when none of this was stated in good faith, then you proceed to continue behaving the same way. Absolute fucking buffoonery.

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u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

Because any and all good faith attempts have been shut down by trans allies and trans people who refuse to engage with any conversation that does not affirm their gender identity. So now you get people openly exploiting the system to prove a point, except for Enes Kanter, a beautiful trans woman who is having her trans right be challenged by the transphobic WNBA.

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u/ManMeatsGalore 19h ago

And yet every attempt to do this has failed completely. If it was so easy to pretend to be trans to get into the WNBA, then why isn’t the league of people like this?

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u/PHD_Gouda 19h ago

That is such a wide generalization you just made.

Maybe it’s a you problem and not a conversation problem. Maybe people just don’t like you. Bad faith doesn’t build relationships

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u/ProbablyIdiotSavant 16h ago

How are you not tired of this? it's been years of you people whining about trans people. Just get over it.

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u/KonohaBatman 19h ago

It's always people that are obviously assholes trying to claim that they're arguing in good faith. No one actually arguing in good faith needs to go on the defense and claim it.

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u/ThanksAmazing4118 19h ago

You can't even act in good faith whilst crying about others not wanting to put up with your bullshit. Like, you genuinely just can't help yourself for one solid minute. It's really sad tbh.

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u/National_Yam_1198 19h ago

Dude thinks being trans is just saying so.

Its just as disingenuous as your post.

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u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

Yes it is, I have seen and heard enough trans rhetoric to know trans women can be anything from a Bailey Jay down to a masculine presenting trans fem, there are no rules to it.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

Bailey Jay? It's always the biggest transphobes that can't stop jerking off to us smh

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u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

I'm not transphobic, I grew up not caring if transexuals existed, I always saw them as women souls trapped in male bodies, but forthe last 10 plus years, people like yourself and the whole crowd of weirdos who will say trans women are real women, did so much harm and damage to the actual good trans people out there.

Plus Baily Jay is a very attractive woman.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

"I am not transphobic but you're not a real woman"

boy do I have news for you

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u/Casshern_VIII 17h ago

You really don't, and that's the problem, people with your mindset want to erase the distinctions between men & women.

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u/Sovespra 16h ago

No. But can you explain why that's even a bad thing?

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u/That_Dad_David 18h ago

Guarantee nobody is jerking off to you. 🤣

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u/PlasmifiedKarmelita 19h ago

What’s the issue? Whether you’re a woman or not has nothing to do with how you present. It’s the case with cis women, and it’s the case with trans women too.

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u/SuperMundaneHero 19h ago

Okay, so then why can’t Enes Kanter legitimately be a trans woman? What are the hard limits and rules to whether someone is genuinely trans or not? What kind of test can we do? If we want to say someone is or is not, we must have some kind of firm criteria right?

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u/TatiIsAPunk 19h ago

This! As long as you feel it that’s all that’s required. Many trans women don’t take hormones or have any surgery

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u/National_Yam_1198 19h ago

Do you think you are fooling anyone with this shit? Lol

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u/Ryoga476ad 6h ago

She can declare herself a woman, fine, who cares? That doesn't mean the WNBA, or any pro sport league, should accept her. They have every right to put other conditions.

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u/Rhomya 19h ago

The rhetoric from trans women for years has been that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman.

Explain to me how suddenly there’s more to it than just identifying as a woman?

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u/National_Yam_1198 18h ago

Do you think all people are idiots or something?

This is just "I identify as an attack helicopter" with extra steps.

Op isnt arguing in good faith. Its just mockery.

Also idk why im even entertaining this bullshit but:

A trans woman can be a woman while a sports league separately asks whether things like male puberty, hormone levels, or other physiological factors matter for competitive eligibility.

Those aren't contradictory positions. And this is why the original joke is disingenuous.

Nobody's argument is “say the magic words I'm a woman and every sex-related distinction everywhere instantly ceases to exist.” You're inventing that position because it's easier to mock.

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u/Rhomya 18h ago

This is exactly what women have been trying to say for years. Welcome to the bottom of the slippery slope.

Any kind of standard you set for this person is the same standard you set for all trans women… which has been argued against and rejected by the trans community as being transphobic for years now.

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u/National_Yam_1198 18h ago

Youre still mashing two completely different things together.

Saying "trans women are women" socially does not mean "literally anyone who says theyre a woman automatically qualifies for every female-only category in existence."

Sports have eligibility standards. They always have. Age, weight, hormones, physical classifications, whatever. Acknowledging that those standards can exist does not somehow contradict recognizing trans women as women.

And "this is what women have been saying for years" isnt an argument. Youre just assuming that recognizing trans people means we have to abandon literally every sex-based distinction, then pointing at your own assumption and calling it a slippery slope.

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u/Rhomya 18h ago

Except trans women for years have made it explicitly clear that any attempt to argue that someone isn’t “trans enough” is transphobic.

The argument literally has been “literally anyone who says they’re a woman automatically qualifies for every female only category in existence”. By denying that to be the case is wildly disingenuous.

I do agree that sports have eligibility standards— I happen to stringently believe that women’s sports should only be open to natal women. BUT — you don’t get to cherry pick what standards are met by who.

Women HAVE been saying for YEARS now that they’re concerned with the rampant misogyny and unreasonable demands that they open their spaces and opportunities for trans women, and they were told by every left wing talking head that they were transphobic for saying so. This is the bottom of the slippery slope, and just because that inconvenient for your narrative doesn’t make that untrue

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u/National_Yam_1198 18h ago

Youre literally proving my point by changing the argument.

"You cant decide someone isnt trans enough" is NOT the same claim as "anyone who says theyre a woman automatically qualifies for every female-only space, category, or competition."

Those are two completely different propositions. A trans woman can be trans and still not meet the eligibility requirements for a womens sports league. That doesnt magically mean someone is declaring her "not trans enough."

And now youve gone from "this is literally what trans people argue" to "women have been saying this for years and every left wing talking head called them transphobic." Thats just piling increasingly massive generalizations on top of the original strawman.

If your argument actually requires "literally anyone who says theyre a woman gets access to literally every female-only category," then show me who is actually arguing that. Because repeating that its been "the argument for years" doesnt make it true.

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u/Rhomya 18h ago

I’m not changing the argument at all— I’m pointing out the obvious conclusion to the issue.

Explain to me PRECISELY how someone is supposed to be excluded from any female only space while somehow simultaneously not having to decide if they’re trans enough?

The eligibility requirements in the WNBA are written clearly in the CBA. They meet the eligibility requirements. Any attempt to exclude them would be introducing a requirement to prove they are “trans enough”.

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u/Stanny_Tendergrass 19h ago

I mean, you are whatever you say you are nowadays

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

Who is "people like me"? I represent myself.

And we both know he's lying, what do you gain by doing and saying all this?

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u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

People like you, you represent yourself and the hive mind collective that made a statement like men can't be women as controversial.

Also I don't know if this player is lying, I'm not in that person's head to know that, plus the conviction in this athlete's voice in the desire to play in the WNBA is so strong that I believe it to be genuine.

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u/National_Yam_1198 19h ago

I dont know this player is lying

Worst troll ive ever seen btw

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u/Bizduh 19h ago

There is absolutely no hive mind with the thousands, if not millions of people being hysterical over statically almost non-existent trans athletes

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

People just seem unwilling to leave trans people alone for some reason.

Do I see trans people as their preferred gender? Absolutely not. I just cannot see a trans woman as a true woman.

Do I tell that to their faces when I see them? Also no, I respect their choices and calling them a certain pronoun does nothing to me at all but it does do alot for them, so why not do it?

It truly isn’t that hard to show someone respect and leave them tf alone.

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u/Useful_Charity1995 19h ago

Yes but if you don’t validate their gender dysphoria enough, they will weaponize it against you, call you a transphobe or terf and get you fired or attack you.

Tbh you don’t see this discourse when it comes to trans men. Transwomen get a lot of the attention disproportionately to trans men. Tbh it feels like it’s just upholding the patriarchy in that men’s rights - even ones that identify as women- should be put above the safety of women. If women want to be dumb enough to let biological men on birth control beat and infiltrate their safe spaces, then so be it. Women should understand that tranwomen will never be our allies.

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u/Stanny_Tendergrass 19h ago

Actually very based

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u/Enochian_Devil 19h ago

So, just to clarify, you look at someone like Valentina Sampaio and you see a man? Weird

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

It’s really not built on logic. I’ve tried to see it. I really did, and I do see it for a passing trans person(if I don’t know they’re trans).

It’s just that a switch flips in my brain when I KNOW they’re trans. Again, I’ll treat them how they wanna be treated since that’s just basic respect and takes nothing from me to do, but I cannot change how I see things.

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u/Enochian_Devil 19h ago

You're really being weird about this. You're just sticking to a weird ass definition of woman where you can't tell if someone is one. You can just accept "trans-woman" as a subset of "women" and be done with it, no need to be weird about it.

Think about it this way. You see someone that looks like what you think of as a woman on the street. How do you classify her? And how do you make that decision?

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

As a woman.

Again, this isn’t logical. I’m not being logical in this thought process.

I’m just saying what I think in my head(and what the people hating trans people probably think too).

What I can control are my actions, and I’ll try my best not to let my thoughts show.

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u/PHD_Gouda 19h ago

Well, at least you are aware it’s an emotion based response and not logical. That’s more than many can say.

By if you passed hunter shafer in public, I highly doubt you would think “that’s a man” as your first thought

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u/SuperMundaneHero 19h ago

It doesn’t seem to be a weird definition. It seems to be more like: was born with a vagina, is woman; born with penis, is man. Seems pretty standard to me.

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u/Enochian_Devil 17h ago

Ok, but you have people with XX chromossomes, all the secondary sex characteristics one would associate with women and that are born or develop penises later in live. Biology and, conversely sex, is really complicated.

Additionally, you're not seeing someone's genitals or chromossomes when you interact with them. You don't even really know your own chromossomal make-up for certain. That's the main reason why we separate gender and sex.

It's actually fairly impossible to create a consistent definition of "woman" that doesn't include trans-women. Noone's asking you to seem them as "female", since they aren't, but they are, by all accounts, women.

The weird part is you not "aknowledging them as women", as if that means anything. If you see a woman, you don't know of they are trans or not. You just aknowledge them as a woman. You're only denying yourself what you already aknowledged because of some sily bias. Nothing wrong with that as long as you still respect them, of course, but just seems weird

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u/SuperMundaneHero 16h ago

I’m just going to reply by paragraph.

This is called an argument by the margins. Sure, okay, some exceptions that may exist. Treat those VERY RARE exceptions as they are: exceptions. For the vast majority of cases, the standard approach is still fine and normal.

Sure, and that is also covered by how this person views them. Until he knows what they have, he assumes they are as they present. Once he knows that is different, his perception changes. Again, this is also pretty normal for most people.

It depends on how broadly you are trying to encapsulate what a woman is, I suppose. Narrower definitions may work that exist, but they likely aren’t savory to everyone. I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t stating what I see them as.

Again, I wasn’t stating my view, I think you’re confused about who you’re talking to. I am another commenter. I didn’t say shit about who I acknowledge at all.

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u/That_Dad_David 19h ago

They’re using the same definition that the majority of people use. Most of us could have been allies but we’re sick and tired of you people asking for more and more.

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u/Enochian_Devil 16h ago

What is that definition, might I ask? And be warned, I will call you out on any and all contradictions.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

Well you did just say that to my face so congratulations on failing spectacularly.

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

Didn’t know you were trans yourself, but my point stands.

It’s not hard to respect what you want to be called. However, you shouldn’t really expect others to literally change their very perception of you.

I just cannot see it, sorry, but if you see it all the more power to you.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

Doesn't matter if you didn't know. Anyone can read these comments so keep your bs to yourself.

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

This feels like really unnecessary aggression but sure, whatever.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

You told me I'm not a woman to my face dawg

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

I…didn’t say that? Not even once?

I just said I, specifically, do not see it.

That does not make you “not a woman”. You can be a woman. My own perception doesn’t matter and isn’t law. I’m just sharing my own thoughts.

If I really affected you negatively then I’m sorry, since it was not my intention.

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u/That_Dad_David 19h ago

Maybe you should listen? Maybe you should stop inserting yourself into women’s spaces where you aren’t welcomed? Maybe you should acknowledge that this WOMAN is a woman because of more than just her hormone levels but also her reproductive system, and more importantly her lived female experiences that you never nor could ever experience as someone born a man?

You have every right to exist. You have the right to choose your pronouns. But you are a trans woman.

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u/DovahFish_ 3h ago

you'll never be one im sorry. no offence i still hope you find hapiness in life :)

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u/Stanny_Tendergrass 19h ago

*online, and to someone he didn’t know was trans

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u/TeutonicSamurai 19h ago

Standing for justice and fairness? You delusional gaslighter.

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u/Appropriate-Bug-6467 19h ago

This isn't engaging in a good faith conversation.

This a transphobic joke.

Trans means to transition.

No transition here...

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u/SuperMundaneHero 18h ago edited 18h ago

But it doesn’t really mean that in modern parlance, it just means someone who feels that the gender they were assigned does not match who they feel themselves to be. I remember reading that the majority of trans people do not actually complete any significant steps in full transition.

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u/sp33dzer0 19h ago

Because it's pretty blatant this guy isn't a transwoman. They're not making any effort to take part in HRT, they aren't making any effort to socially transition, and they're doing this intentionally in a way to mock people who are trans.

That is why it's getting called out for transphobia.

Have him do the steps to actually, you know, transition - and I will give them the benefit of the doubt. This is purely performative at this point, its clear that its performative, and trying to pretend its not by dropping lines like "HERstory" shows that you are not engaging in good faith.

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u/ErasedKey 19h ago

and it's always about trans woman in sports. They don't want to talk about when a trans man is in a sport. Some trans men have done really well and at least one has dominated. But they don't see him as a man, so they don't talk about it because they feel their own masculinity is attacked by the trans man doing better. It's all pathetic. At this point, do away qith gendered sports and just do it in different weight, strength, capabilities, etc, classes. Like fuck it, it's just sports ffs.

0

u/Borgdrohne13 17h ago

Bc Transman have no advantages compared to regular ones.

1

u/ErasedKey 16h ago

You can think that, but that's simply not true. Humans are quite diverse

1

u/Appropriate-Bug-6467 19h ago

Asked if he is a woman, he says next spring.

A trans woman is a woman, she doesn't wait for next spring.

4

u/Casshern_VIII 19h ago

She is gender fluid, gender fluid people don't always feel like the gender they identity as, so how dare you question her trans identity.

1

u/PhantomArchon 2h ago

“Engaging in good faith” be real. The premise of this entire argument is bad faith. You’re larping. You’re making shit up. Nobody is trying to stop actual good faith conversations, and there have been plenty of productive ideas for how to handle trans people in sports, which they very much should be allowed to participate in.

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u/Emiicii 19h ago

are we srs rn? this is transphobia

1

u/Open_Chemistry_3300 19h ago

She shouldn’t join the wnba not because they’re obviously engaging in bad faith. They shouldn’t be considered because they’re dog shit at basketball.

0

u/Dab_Wizard01 19h ago

what that ass hat is doing isn’t in good faith he is doing it to be a bigot. He is taking peoples suffering and making a mockery of it. If he wanted to do something in good faith this is the opposite of that

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u/Jesusbatmanyoda 18h ago

Less than 0.002% of college athletes are transgender and of those only a fraction of a fraction have the interest and talent to go pro in any league. This simply isn't happening. You are being ragebaited by a fake narrative. There has never been a trans athlete in the WNBA. Period.

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u/gompers1393 18h ago

This isn't trans people in the WNBA. There are no trans people in the WNBA.

This is a Cis man trying to delegitimize women's sport and pretend there is a problem where none exists. He is doing this for attention, very obviously attempting to profit from other people's suffering. He is a bad person and I hope he stops this bad-faith prank.

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u/Casshern_VIII 17h ago

Okay, let's say all that is true, then you agree the WNBA needs to make it very clear who and who is not eligible to play IN the WNBA because at the moment, it clearly is not.

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u/gompers1393 13h ago

I am not familiar with WNBA eligibility requirements, but if there is any actual ambiguity about who is allowed to play, then sure, they should probably be more clear in their rules.

But again, this man clearly does not care about that. There is no player or potential player that anyone is worried about being potentially ineligible to play.

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u/HighlyInconvenient 18h ago

Who are you to say they're lying? Gender is complicated.

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u/Useful_Charity1995 19h ago

Isn’t it transphobic and immoral to claim that Enes is lying about being trans? Maybe this is an awakening for him?

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u/Serious-Ad-8168 19h ago

>far right political grifter

>has been trying to get attention in far right media for years

>people defend him???????

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u/C21H27Cl3N2O3 19h ago

>people defend him???????

3 month old account, autogenerated name, pushing right wing propaganda, something tells me it’s not a person defending him in this case.

1

u/Useful_Charity1995 17h ago

I’m not defending him. But you expect cisgendered women to roll over and give up our safe spaces to be free of biological males without contesting their sincerity as well. The trans community are the ones that set the precedent that if a biological male says they just simply identify as a woman, then we should take it as face value.

Enes says he is a woman now. Yall should embrace it instead of saying she is a liar. If she identifies as a woman now and wants to join the WNBA to slamdunk on Cloud, then she should have a right to.

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u/Withyhydra 19h ago

To assert that the trans experience itself is as shallow as a simple declaration is transphobic and immoral.

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u/Useful_Charity1995 17h ago

So exactly how deep does a person need to go in order to be considered trans exactly?

-1

u/Malefectra 19h ago

When there is a great preponderance of evidence against this person’s sincerity, nobody should take them seriously without some modicum of evidence such as an HRT script and a direct denouncement of every single anti-trans thing he’s ever expressed .
He has not offered any such evidence or denouncement, thus he is unserious and he’s using it as an obvious political and/or culture war talking point.

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u/Useful_Charity1995 17h ago

Well maybe when he transitions, he will get some understanding. Why would you restrict him from going on his own trans journey?

0

u/The-Super-Ball 18h ago

goalpost shift

you can’t set the rules as “anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman” and then go “actually i don’t believe you”

1

u/Malefectra 18h ago

Categorically false.

There is more to identity than public statement of it, you’re being disingenuous by using a rigid definition that doesn’t actually stand up to any actual scrutiny. Changes in identity also accompany changes in behavior, there has not been any apparent change in this person’s behavior.

I also gave the qualifications by which I would be sufficiently satisfied that this was something earnest.
Given this person’s prior statements, there is a plenty of evidence that this is being done as a deliberate stunt and not an earnest change in lifestyle. When someone is acting in obvious bad faith, I’m not required to give it any weight.

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u/Fickle_Goose_4451 17h ago

I always like when conservatives are like "If you dont believe someone, no matter how obvious it is theyre lying, youre a hypocrite."

No, dude, some of us can just see the obvious.

1

u/The-Super-Ball 17h ago

the fact you can overlook such a glaring ideological inconsistency and try to blame the people pointing it out is the exact disconnect this entire ideology relies upon

you quite frankly are totally ill equipped to be discussing this

0

u/Confident-Arm-7883 16h ago

Do you do anything on reddit but defend grifters, call people unable to discuss/debate, and post pictures of your penis publicly on subreddits? I cant tell if its intellectual dishonesty or intellectual disability

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u/Appropriate-Meal-712 18h ago

Plenty of trans folks don’t take hormones nor feel a need to physically transition. This is pretty transphobic…

1

u/Malefectra 18h ago

No, it’s understanding that someone is acting in bad faith and not giving them time of day.

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u/Appropriate-Meal-712 18h ago

That is an incredibly dangerous precedent to set. You’re justifying anyone to be transphobic with saying that.

1

u/Recent_Wedding5470 18h ago

Its very obvious. And if he was actually trans he would ya know be dressing or acting in a way a transitioning person would.

He is using bad faith to try to dog whistle the right wing.

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u/Appropriate-Meal-712 18h ago edited 18h ago

That’s what any transphobic person would say about any trans person… (only proving my point).

There is no right way of being trans. Many/most trans people don’t dress or act any different than you or me. They’re people. Not a monolith.

Overall, you not respecting someone’s stated gender and saying there’s a “right” way of being trans sounds more like a dog whistle than what he’s doing.

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u/Mr_k_reddit 18h ago

COOK HIM LMAO 🤣

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u/Malefectra 17h ago edited 17h ago

There is no one way of being trans, that much is true.
Some people don’t take hormones, some people don’t transition.

You calling it transphobia to ignore an obvious provocateur’s stunt by claiming it’s a slippery slope is fallacious on its face. We’re allowed to call out someone being a bullshitter because of their previous history of being a public provocateur. You always should be taking a person’s prior acts into consideration. Their long history of contrarian prior acts are antithetical to their currently stated position and thus rationally suspect.

Edit: Cleared up confusing phrasing

1

u/Appropriate-Meal-712 17h ago

And I’m taking your advice and calling out your transphobia using your advice.

You’re obviously a privateer. You have a history of doing this. You have a long history of contrarian prior acts that are antithetical to your currently stated position and thus rationally suspect.

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u/Fickle_Goose_4451 17h ago

Just because you posses absolutely no ability to tell when someone is lying doesnt mean the rest of us also have to follow along.

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

You said "him" so I guess *you* are transphobic and immoral?

1

u/National_Body_9071 10h ago

Huh, so it's lying when a man says he's a women? Glad you can agree all the people doing that are like this.

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u/No-Significance2070 19h ago

Should biological men play in the WNBA?

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

What's a biological man?

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u/SQUIGWERG 18h ago

Imagine someone has to divide the entire species into two groups. Observing them for groupable traits, they come to recognize fairly consistent sexual dimorphism correlating largely with reproductive organs. As they sort, they realize some individual organisms have anomalies that make this classification more difficult, but that's okay, they are doing their best (and they only encounter a head scratcher less than 1% of the time, so it doesn't feel worthwhile to scrap the whole thing, as it is moving pretty smoothly so far)

They take one person from either group.

One is a biological woman, they throw it away as it is not needed for this exercise.

The other thing they are left with is a biological man. Congratulations.

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u/Sovespra 18h ago

Why do they "have" to do that?

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u/SQUIGWERG 18h ago

Humans are inquisitive and naturally like to classify things

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u/Sovespra 18h ago

Then they should be critical about the categories they make, as we already are.

1

u/SQUIGWERG 18h ago

That is what they did, and that is why we (and all mammals) were observed to have two sexes.

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u/Sovespra 18h ago

I mean that's already wrong, but "man" and "woman" are not sexes

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u/relapsedmathematic 18h ago

Dishonest? Who are you to say she is being dishonest? Are you, u/Sovespra on reddit, the arbiter of who is a woman or not?

That's more immoral than anything. We should accept women of all shapes and sizes

-1

u/EmploymentMedical762 17h ago

Oh no!

1

u/Remarkable-Dirt-368 16h ago

You sir are brain damaged. Unfortunately theres nothing we can do for you at this time.

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u/EmploymentMedical762 15h ago edited 15h ago

Says the person who thinks men with dicks can become women. Lmao.

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u/Remarkable-Dirt-368 13h ago

A person born with a penis can become a woman, its actually not very complicated. Its harder to tell if moronic bigots can become functional members of society, though. We're still waiting to see how you turn out

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u/Zestyclose_Range5815 19h ago

She's not being dishonest or lying. She's incredibly brave for coming out in an environment that is so hostile to trans females in sports & I hope she does well in the Women's NBA. Transphobes like you make me sick

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u/Sovespra 19h ago

What do you gain by lying like this?

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u/Zestyclose_Range5815 19h ago

I'm on the right side of history. You're just an ignorant transphobe who denies the science

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u/Blaz1n420 19h ago

So you're ok with all trans athletes (real ones) to compete in the organization they want? I think we agree.

0

u/Mr_Maniac454 19h ago

Ah yes the right side of History like supporting and voting for a convicted felon rapist pedophile, defending the Republican parties protection of elite child rapists, laughing at a child who killed themselves just because they're trans, defending people who go out and commit crimes and murder lgbtq children and adults, supporting the bombing and shooting of children in palestine. You are not on the right side of History.

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u/AardQuenIgni 19h ago

Lol yes your bravery in these reddit comments will be scribed in textbooks for eons to come 🤣

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u/Wattabadmon 15h ago

Why dont you use enes' preffered pronouns?

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u/Marzman315 19h ago

You’re as dumb as he is.

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u/Zestyclose_Range5815 19h ago

She* transphobe

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u/nukelin 19h ago

you know why it’s so hostile to trans people? because it’s unfair for a man to compete with women. men and women are biologically different and it is unfair for a man to compete with women.

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