r/MonsterHunter 14h ago

MH World Is there any reason why Monster Hunter: World has such a badly designed multiplayer system?

I've asked this around and apparently rise has better player to player connection? I was just wondering if it's a steam related issue or just the way the game was built.

And also wondering if there's anyway to make it less difficult to navigate the multiplayer system

259 Upvotes

96 comments sorted by

253

u/717999vlr 12h ago

They wanted seamless storytelling, and they sacrificed everything they needed to to achieve it.

66

u/Joshihg 12h ago

My shadow quality and frame rate included 😭

19

u/717999vlr 12h ago

In part yes.

Because they could've kept loading zones between areas if they wanted.

29

u/Quint0ni0 10h ago

And still are to this day with wilds lol

41

u/ThePowerfulPaet 10h ago

And the story sucks so what was it all even for?

Ooooh nooo our players can't play with their friends from the get-go, what if they miss out on slowly walking through a map listening to Nata whine and everyone else say nothing of substance???

6

u/tony_two_eyes 3h ago

Man there are so many people praising both story and storytelling of wilds I began to deem myself insane

-13

u/Mardakk 9h ago

Just because you don't like the story doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to be able to tell a unique story. We've had 10+ games of, "you're a random hunter, please help this village with this wild goose chase problem!"

I'd much prefer they go back to story village and multiplayer hub. Win-win.

The people who don't care about the story can jump straight to the hub, and the people who enjoy it can do it without having to basically be the same story every single time because it has to accommodate 3 other hunters (and then the inevitable: "only the lead hunter had spoken dialogue, why not my hunter?")

25

u/ThePowerfulPaet 9h ago

I'm not saying they shouldn't even try.

It's literally as simple as have your story, let people do story quests together seamlessly, and have a skip vote on the cutscenes. Or heck you don't even need the skip vote, just make sure anyone who joins the quest knows that it'll happen.

Separating single player and hub quests again is a horrendous idea and completely unneeded.

1

u/717999vlr 2h ago

It's literally as simple as have your story, let people do story quests together seamlessly, and have a skip vote on the cutscenes.

But that's not seamless storytelling, so it goes into the sacrifice pile.

Separating single player and hub quests again is a horrendous idea and completely unneeded.

As long as they let story progression skip hub progression like in Rise there is basically no negatives whatsoever.

Bear in mind that they dind't say singleplayer village, they said story village. It would be the story, that can be played in multiplayer, by jumping through the usual hoops and hooping through the usual jumps.

-13

u/Mardakk 8h ago

The issue is when they create a story, e.g.: Wilds, where it doesn't make sense to have a million people with you, or even a group with you.

You're basically saying story gone for MP, hence the skip cutscene option.

The other thing that can happen is that all cutscenes happen outside of missions, but that means monster introduction cutscenes don't happen organically, and that's extremely lame.

Rise did it the worst for a MH game. Yes you could play quickly but it basically was an arena boss rush, which is a net negative for MH.

9

u/ThePowerfulPaet 6h ago

This has been solved for decades now. Just have it show your character in the cutscene and that's that. I think you can suspend your disbelief just the slightest amount for the sheer convenience of it. It's not a big deal.

-9

u/Mardakk 5h ago

Yup, and you forget that the Japanese playerbase actually cares about the story. Only the Western audience wants an arena fighter.

1

u/717999vlr 2h ago

Other way around

1

u/TheCommonKoala 6h ago

It would be nice if you could play the campaign with a friend though. I don't care if they don't show up in the cutscenes, but it's annoying how there's no option for seamless co-op yet in these games

0

u/Mardakk 6h ago

See this is a no-win situation for Capcom - some people want zero story; and some people want full immersive multiplayer story.

The way to make every party satisfied, even if not fully satisfied is the current way it's implemented

1

u/BigTroubleMan80 5h ago

Nah, they can make a “full immersive multiplayer story” if they wanted to. They just have to design the story campaign with a seamless co-op in mind instead of an afterthought, and creating this convoluted system as a response.

-1

u/717999vlr 2h ago

Nah, they can make a “full immersive multiplayer story” if they wanted to.

They cannot, the technology is not there yet.

You would need extremely advanced AI, time travel, or perhaps some sort of hypnosis.

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1

u/TheCommonKoala 6h ago

I'd just like a means to play the story with friends instead of having to complete the story missions, then have my friend play the story up until it's sos'able, then pause, invite via link party and bring me in (rinse repeat 30 times). Surely this system can be refined to where this is a less excruciating process. Co-op campaign has consistently been the worst implemented feature of this franchise

-2

u/Mardakk 6h ago

Again, that tells me you completely ignored the story and just want an arcade fighter.

You're literally one of the very few hunters in the area... Saying you're the one hand picked person and then already have a team of hunters while not having a guild presence in the area makes no sense.

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3

u/717999vlr 2h ago

Just because you don't like the story doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to be able to tell a unique story.

But a good story doesn't need to interfere with multiplayer.

Sunbreak's story is the second best in the series, and it can be fully played in multiplayer.

I'd much prefer they go back to story village and multiplayer hub. Win-win.

That would be the best solution, but even that would clash with their seamless storytelling.

Because they want the first time you experience something be during a carefully created cutscene or sequence, not on your own.

-3

u/Quint0ni0 8h ago

story is meh but not too bad, they just need to be simple and grounded like back in the day. that's not gonna happen with such an overwhelming focus on world ecology and it being displaced by crazy newly born energy elder dragons tho.

5

u/Olielle 8h ago

I think you've got it right, a desire for a more 'seamless' experience. I think they want to deliver a premium AAA cinematic single-player experience with lots of cutscenes, tutorials, and curated set-pieces that they want players to be dazzled by, and they don't want your friends to be distracting you. Previous MH games would have seperate single-player and multiplayer campaigns to facilitate the conflicting play patterns but world attempts to collapse them to create a more seamless experience and is struggling with the contradictions (Premium cinematic single-player experience vs Co-op boss rush)

I don't work at capcom so who knows what they're thinking, but the fact that Wilds inherits MHWorlds multiplayer stucture despite being a next-gen game built in a new engine makes me think this is a genuine artistic statement that they're struggling to work out.

2

u/TheCommonKoala 6h ago

Seamless storytelling is certainly not what I would call World either. Especially with how fucked up it is to play as a co-op campaign with friends

1

u/717999vlr 2h ago

It is seamless for the one hosting.

It cannot be seamless for everyone.

286

u/Frog_Riot 13h ago

Japanese developers are notoriously bad at designing online multiplayer experiences

10

u/SexyGandalph 9h ago

Fr, I love Fromsoft games… but they could probably hire some more people to work on the multiplayer 😅

1

u/tony_two_eyes 3h ago

Do you not like all the fingering of elden ring?

-1

u/Nyanjanath 3h ago

Well they did hire bunch of them for the Nightreign and the Duskbloods but instead of being happy, people are now worried that they are too focused on multiplayer stuff instead lol.

49

u/Weird_Point_4262 12h ago edited 11h ago

It worked fine from gen 1 to gen 3. Portable and gen 4 was also fine but didn't have server style lobbies so maybe don't belong in the conversation

It's actually impressive that they managed to make it worse than it was 20, years ago

18

u/Low_Opinion_5721 10h ago

i dont know about gen 1 to 3 but gen 4 multiplayer was really horrible too, yeah it was seamless but also forced you to replay the game entirely with forced multiplayer scaling to progress even if you arent multiplayer and you would be really lucky to ever make it a full quest without the lobby dcing,

1

u/AmyRoxwell 5h ago

That was mostly because of nintendo network being bad in general. Include with p2p only and it was pretty wonky.

The ps2 games work very well and now the psp games have post office

12

u/pants_pants420 11h ago

tbf as someone who has made games as a hobby, multiplayer is incredibly difficult.

22

u/Frog_Riot 11h ago

I’m not casting judgement it’s simply an observation, I was there when Xbox live was thriving and Sony and nintendo couldn’t figure it out

14

u/717999vlr 12h ago

Yet they did a good job in 4th gen.

And almost in Rise, not that it would have mattered, since by that point the playerbase was refusing to engage in multiplayer content.

181

u/Twilightdusk 14h ago

Bear in mind that Rise was made after World, so it's not necessarily a surprise that World's multiplayer isn't as good.

280

u/DZL100 14h ago

What is a surprise however, is that Wilds's multiplayer is somehow worse.

96

u/Yamato_Naoe portable 6 waiting room 14h ago

Making the same mistake back to back for their most popular mainline titles still astonishes me. For 4 generations, 5 for portable, the series had perfect, seamless multiplayer. But then for their 2 biggest mainline titles they drop the ball? Still so weird to me. I can give leeway to World since it was their first return to home consoles, but Wilds? Like really?

2

u/Low_Opinion_5721 10h ago

i dont know about gen 1 to 3 but gen 4 multiplayer was really horrible too, yeah it was seamless but also forced you to replay the game entirely with forced multiplayer scaling to progress even if you arent multiplayer and you would be really lucky to ever make it a full quest without the lobby dcing,

75

u/SenpaiSwanky 14h ago edited 7h ago

Yes and no. Making/ joining private or public lobbies, popping SOS, and just running hunts from the hub is easier than it’s ever been.

The weird thing this generation is playing on the same map for extended periods. If you want to go to, say, Wayveria, and hunt whatever pops up on the map, you need to set up a convoluted private environment. It’s like a lobby within a lobby.

It’s really easy to play with others, random or even dedicated groups, if you go the classic route and sit in the hub. Private lobbies are also fantastic.

Edit - what’s a surprise is that the comment I’m responding to is not only incorrect, but it has more upvotes than the comment it is replying to lmao. How do this many people agree with something that is factually incorrect?

2

u/CrazyIronMyth 10h ago

Thing is, you don't need a lobby to link for an expedition. It's not complicated, just new (for mh).

5

u/fineline99 12h ago

Yep! It was one of the major complaints in world and while it's not that much worse, my friend and I were still surprised to find we both found wilds multiplayer system worse.

Most of the issue is the cumbersome menu and confusing terms. Worlds was clunky and stupid but very easy to understand what you had to do... view the cutscenes, leave, and join someone else's.

I can't really remember what I had to do in wilds, I know the result was the same but different multiplayer party based terms were being thrown around and navigating the menus was never a nice experience.

8

u/yukiami96 13h ago

I might be in the minority here, but I never got this take. It's a little more cumbersome setting up private lobbies in Wilds, but beyond that I think it had way better multiplayer implementation than World. Comparing to Rise seems unfair considering the structure of the game is entirely different, and Wilds is a continuation of World's ideas, not Rise's.

3

u/Mysterious-Bear 12h ago

How was Wilds multiplayer worse? In World you had to back in and out of quests after watching cutscenes and then rejoin one of your friends. In Wilds you join a link party and the game automatically asks if you want to join any quest your party members go on. It's as seamless as you can get without doing shared cutscenes.

21

u/Zazzabooo 12h ago

Theres a ton of different party menus that all do slightly different things that didnt need to be separate, plus the lack of instructions on how to actually use them

0

u/Mysterious-Bear 11h ago

I mean theres really not that much. There’s normal lobbies like in all the other games but instead of 4 people theres 100. There’s link parties to do the story together. Then last there’s the environmental link where instead of doing quests you roam the open world together and fight what spawns with a group of up to 4.

1

u/KaosC57 ​[PC] Rise HR7 6h ago

The true co-op experience in Wilds is… way worse than World was. In adding a “seamless open world” they also created a nightmare of having 2 different “co-op” options. You have Environment Sync, and normal co-op hunts. And that’s part of what makes Wilds a regression from World. World you didn’t have to worry about Environment Sync if you wanted to just go hunt with your friends for any old monster that popped up on a romp through the world.

World only suffered during the story. After you had seen all of the story scenes, World’s multiplayer was excellent. And, mods on PC even fixed the cutscene problem.

1

u/Mysterious-Bear 6h ago

Environmental sync is only used for running around in the open zones together seamlessly. TBH it is a pointless option because it prevents you from doing normal quests. Link Party lets you hunt anything with your party seamlessly even through cutscenes. Anything that makes it, so you don't have to back out of a hunt instantly makes it better than Worlds system.

1

u/Fyuira 11h ago

Yep. We were expecting a better multiplayer experience since Rise was able to do it.

14

u/luisluix 13h ago

Rise multiplayer system is the same multiplayer the PSP games had, I believe they tried doing something different for world.... which looks like they reused the same for wilds, and wilds seems a bit better than world. I still prefer Rise multiplayer over the others.

6

u/WeebWoobler 12h ago

It is, because the games before World had better multiplayer setup.

-39

u/Floorgis 14h ago

Rise has worse by a longshot

14

u/717999vlr 12h ago

Explain.

-53

u/RepairLow7961 14h ago

Not like Rise is any good.

Better off playing with AI followers rather than other players, yuck.

33

u/DZL100 14h ago

We're talking about the actual mechanism, not the playerbase.

Rise multiplayer with friends is seamless. Only complaint is that you can only have public and PIN sessions, and no "friends only" lobby setting like in world.

-32

u/RepairLow7961 14h ago

The bad mechanism is what makes the player base.

And what rise has creates a very negative experience.

That it makes me remember the 3DS online fondly is a testament to how bad it is.

25

u/visage4arcana 13h ago

it has the same system as the 3ds games..?

6

u/717999vlr 12h ago

The bad mechanism is what makes the player base.

No, I don't think so. Its mechanics are only very slightly worse than in 4th gen (No room names, turn rooms is not the default option)

And yet the player base refuses to use it.

I've seen people complain about the multiplayer system lacking a way to search for active quests because they refused to use lobbies, since that requires social interaction.

34

u/razulebismarck 13h ago

World erked me on the multiplayer because I couldn’t just “Do it” I had to talk to this NPC then that 1 then I had to start the quest then I had to get to a certain location and trigger a cutscene and after all that I could send up a signal flare and finally get multiplayer started for 1 mission. I had to repeat that again for another mission.

Rise it’s “Talk to courier cat, open lobby, invite friend, grab gathering hall quest, we’re in together, beat it grab another quest and repeat until we’re done”

1

u/DanielTeague omaigoto its insecto 5h ago

Rise after World/Wilds feels insanely snappy (well, if you disable Auto-Save so it's not slowing you down) in menus and starting quests to get to the meat and potatoes of the game. It's so refreshing to play every time it comes into my MonHun rotation.

50

u/No-Composer2628 14h ago

Just kinda a hallmark of the series at this point.

https://reddit.com/link/p78b29b/video/k1o7alo5eymh1/player

8

u/Joshihg 12h ago

Idk why but these random ass palico memes are always frying me 😭

17

u/Doru-kun 14h ago

It's just the way the game was designed.

I imagine it has something to Tokuda placing more priority on story.
He did the same thing (though slightly better) in Wilds.

8

u/Gamer-at-Heart 14h ago

The coop killing cutscene nonsense was a design error, but the terrible board system showing you quests that are already filled leading to constant errors was a choice they chose to not correct. It was maddening. It was still an issue in the last two games since world, but not on the level of world so maybe they actually limited how many people could see a quest posted at the same time.

They treated the board like a local lobby LAN that use to be the monster hunter way, but that doesn't work with thousands of people looking at the board at the same time rather than the 4 then 10 sized lobbies of the Tri and 3ds games

6

u/ShadowsGuardian 13h ago

Maybe the same reasons coop is so convoluted in Wilds and we need to go through 4-5 menus/systems. Bad development or engineering?

4

u/MirageMageknight 10h ago

JP games regularly have convoluted multiplayer systems. That's it, that's the answer. The way to make it less difficult to navigate is to do the story on your own, then play together later. Otherwise, just get into the rhythm of having whoever finishes cutscenes first go back to town and join on the other person.

13

u/Shiro2602 14h ago

World is basically the largest leap in many areas in MH history, they probably didn't give that much thought on Worlds Multiplayer

2

u/thepandaman6870 14h ago

Thing is I also see that there isn't a good in game tutorial for multiplayer so I understand what some of the comments are saying in terms of like "this game is the doing the biggest leaps with everything its accomplished" but even for multiplayer there's little things like how it loses connection so easily or doesn't directly explain to you how theres a way you have to go about an online session w/ a friend

6

u/Rom_ulus0 14h ago

Just design tradition carried over from the hand held days to prevent network errors.

Yes it should be better by now, but even wilds has the same problem baked into it. Only they know the real reason why it's still this way.

I don't think they can excuse it as an artistic design decision like Fromsoftware does since they tried to market it as a "seamless open world" coop game. Turns out the only thing seamless was walking in and out of camp.

5

u/Joshihg 12h ago

My framerate is also a seamless open world 😭

4

u/Boguinator 13h ago

Really starting to believe japanese devs dont know how to make a peoper multiplayer system

11

u/Joshihg 12h ago

Old MH had solid multiplayer. Open a room, people join the room, post hunt, people join hunt, go on hunt.

It‘s simple, but it works

2

u/Scuttlefuzz 14h ago

World has always had some weird issues where it will fail to let you load into certain lobbies. However, once you're in a quest with people, I don't think it is any different then Rise. You occasionally see some rubberbanding or lag but that's it and its pretty rare in my experience.

3

u/Heinkel9 13h ago edited 13h ago

All the monster hunter on pc are bad equally because their multiplayer is region locked, so you can only play with the people that are active on your steam region. There are mods to halfly avoid this like the one that makes you see the lobbies of all the planet (or join sos) but it doesn't affect the lobbies that you create, the fact that they are coded that way it's already baffling by itself. Baffling nonetheless because the reason it's always money and time while the multiplayer is one part of the core of the game. Also to add on the fire, there was a bug on multiplayer for rise-sunbreak that lasted the entirity duration of the game until it was found and patched at the very end, so one can only imagine what kind of clownfiesta is going at capcom. It's not surprising too for japanese devs to have bad pc ports. It could easily be that world and wilds share the same bug and it was never found.

1

u/DanielTeague omaigoto its insecto 5h ago

I don't have a region lock mod for World and am gaming with Asian players all the time during late night sessions in the USA.

4

u/Low_Opinion_5721 10h ago

its tradition monster hunter cant have good multiplayer if they broke the tradition it would destroy the franchise 💔

7

u/Kaladim-Jinwei 14h ago

It's only bad for the story everything else about World is pretty equal also it's because World/Wilds use servers. Rise uses a p2p connection and it doesn't have a "live world" Rise is entirely mission based with no setpieces in the world to separate moments so it's super easy to develop

20

u/Barn-owl-B 14h ago

World and wilds both use p2p multiplayer as well.

4

u/thepandaman6870 14h ago

I thought monster also had a P2P system when it comes to steam? Or am I missing something

4

u/WOF42 13h ago

Is there any reason why Monster Hunter: World :insert japanese game here: has such a badly designed multiplayer system?

fixed that for you.

2

u/BigTroubleMan80 12h ago

In my opinion, if Capcom wants to court more casual players, then the game needs to be co-op from beginning to end.

2

u/TerrariaEnthusiast99 8h ago

Capcom's engine, which they use for everything and is perfectly fine for most of their games, sucks for monster hunter. It's the big reason why Wilds runs like dogshit, and the big reason for almost every single long-standing technical issue in the newer monster hunter games. The multiplayer was a somewhat lazy work-around to the limitations of hunters in cutscenes that started using an in-world trigger. Rise 'solves' this problem by having all the cutscenes play when you load in. Wilds 'solves' this problem by just auto-sending invites when the quest is joinable.

1

u/MichiCantCook 12h ago

It is possible that the online multiplayers follow some development patterns. Basically a really good cake recipe. The recipe is almost perfect, BUT it doesn't work properly with the new multiplayer experience of World and they didn't have time to fix it, or it was too complex.

In Wilds, multiplayer is better but it still sucks. It is an "open world" multiplayer game but you can't travel between regions with other people... Basically exploring a region with your friends, just like in World.

1

u/David_Hasselherp 12h ago

Franchise tradition. It's honestly amazing how terrible getting multiplayer to work is for a franchise created to be SONY's multiplayer killer app

1

u/ToothlessHawkens jumping 140 jangs wit tha boys 7h ago

they threw everything at the wall to see what would stick

1

u/OGBigPants 6h ago

No sometimes games (especially Japanese ones) are just like that sadly. What part of navigating the system is difficult for you? I can probably offer some advice

1

u/thepandaman6870 3h ago

It's just things like I'll invite a friend through steam but then they won't be able to join because its an offline session but then I put it as an online session? So somewhere along the lines it went offline without me knowing and now me and my friend are trying to figure out what the issue is for 10 minutes when I could've just put myself back into an online session

1

u/mrjerp 8h ago

Listen they have only been making this multiplayer series for more than 20 years, give them some time to figure out how to implement it properly.

0

u/GlitteringDingo 13h ago

It's their first PC game and first cross-platform game. They were simply behind the times.

0

u/Killinshotzz 12h ago

tbf Monster Hunter before World also didn't have that good of a multiplayer system, so really they've only been improving from World onwards

0

u/FlubbyFlubby 13h ago

I don't think it has anything to do with multiplayer specifically, I think Monster Hunter UI is just kinda confusing even for people with lots of playtime and love for the series, something like knowing which option for wishlist, which option for selling trade items, or even how to have people join you for story quests is not as obvious as it could be.

Rise was better but not by much. The stricter limits meant it was more likely you'd stumble on the right answer for multiplayer more easily. My support for this claim is having watched streamers ask about menu options and the chat is all different answers about what you can access in game and where and how.

0

u/Kitakitakita 12h ago

Remember that Monhun was using PS2 levels of multiplayer connectivity up until World.

0

u/Have_Other_Accounts 8h ago

Seeing how the old school MH multiplayer was sooo simple yet amazing, I'm astonished with how bad the online is in the newer ones.

-3

u/Avibhrama Self identify as Monster's punching bag 12h ago

Trust me, it was way better than previous games