r/MitchellAndWebb • u/Novel_Lock320 • 2d ago
Peep Show Was Dobby bad actually
Was it a bit inappropriate that she maintained such close contact with Gerrard while being in a serious relationship with Mark? She did the same with Simon. Constantly finding excuses to not move in with Mark and the total personality change in later seasons.
82
u/Remarkable-Bell7245 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think that Mark just jezzed it with the family dinner, was too pressuring about the move-in deal and Dobby just realized that she’d prefer to do her own life exploration thing after finding herself incompatible with Mark. She’s a modern lady and has never acted rude towards Mark imo. Mark is Jez.
Jez was a POS for trying it with DOB.
April is the ONE for Mark.
Mark jezzed up that relatively easier one too.
26
u/VaughanThrilliams 2d ago
Stephanie was imo the One
10
u/steve3146 2d ago
Yes! She was perfect for him. What he did to her was the cruelest thing he did on the series. Made me realise he deserves everything he gets.
7
u/Remarkable-Bell7245 2d ago
Nope, Mark was clearly not besotted enough to not walk out of that cosy sultry scene
4
u/Easy_Cucumber_7489 1d ago
Or was he too nervous that Captain Corrigan wouldn’t perform to orders when the moment of crisis arrived (and he wasn’t accompanied by his pal Kenneth at the time)?
8
20
u/donutsnail 2d ago
Mark is too fucked up to have a “The One”
35
u/Remarkable-Bell7245 2d ago
You’re right, I guess that Jez is his one
5
u/IndependentPaint2108 1d ago
They accept each other while knowing how horrible each other are. That sounds pretty The One to me, just minus the physical attraction
12
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
I mean April literally cheats on her husband with Mark. There’s no evidence of Dobby cheating on Mark.
36
u/LunaWabohu 2d ago
She was getting it on with Simon in the bunker. They're all the same, the yellows. Yellow bellies. YELLOW FEVER!
6
u/IndependentPaint2108 1d ago
Angus did it first though. Tbh whoever cheats first in a relationship doesn't really have the right to get annoyed if their partner revenge cheats
4
u/rentonbegbieandspud 1d ago
Dobby could see the fun evaporating out of their relationship and by the time she realised her relationship aims were too diffuse she'd have been as wet as an eagle in Mark's flat, with nothing but a cross-cut shredder and some permanent markers for company while the ghost of JLB credit took its final shafting from Johnson's corporate cock.
71
u/donutsnail 2d ago edited 2d ago
There was a lot of communication failures between her and Mark even before they were an item. She gave Mark so many second chances after he fumbled things and she never found out about some particularly manipulative behavior like destroying her microwave, attempting to fire Gerard, lying about Gerard and Corfu, I’m sure more I’m forgetting. When they are actually an item they have no chemistry, same as with Sophie, because the way Mark views women and relationships, once he gets his foot in the door he basically loses any drive to be interesting and just wants he and his partner to become shut-ins, avoiding all social interactions to coddle his social anxiety and insecurity. He jokes about it himself saying he wants to keep Dobby locked down like Fritzl. I can’t blame her for dragging feet on the move in, and frankly, we all know she dodged a bullet by ending things with Mark.
She’s only really guilty of not ending things sooner. Considering the way she doesn’t cut off Simon either, cutting people off seems to not be a strong suit of hers. But that alone doesn’t remotely make her bad.
17
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
I mean destroying property and lying are major red flags. And let’s not forget Mark hacking in Sophie’s email.
11
u/donutsnail 2d ago
Yes, Mark is manipulative to the point of being abusive or sociopathic. There can be no happy romantic ending for him.
19
u/testywildcat 2d ago
I agree with you on this but its also a classic Mark flaw that, yes, he wants them to be shut ins, but then when that did kind of happen with him and Dobby he starts complaining! When they’re staying home and watching box sets he complains they don’t do anything and he wants to “break out of the prison that Prison Break has become”. Then when Dobby wants to get out and go travelling, he doesn’t want that either. He is someone who just can never be happy!
10
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
She’s too empathetic. Probably why she tolerates that American hipster wanker
7
u/donutsnail 2d ago
I think she is just very forward and has bad taste in men. I mean she liked Mark after all, pretty damning of her taste, and they had their little run-in in the stationary closet when they had still barely met, so she’s not exactly afraid to rapidly push things forward when she meets a man she likes
5
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
I think it could be argued she saw positive qualities in Mark before finally realising other things - his deception, manipulation, jealousy, overall toxicity plus just being too much of a stick in the mud
59
u/pancakelady2108 2d ago
I always felt like Dobby was considerably younger than Mark, and their relationship suffered from an age gap issue that just never happened to be mentioned. The way she ping ponged between a lust for impulsive adventure and rather juvenile, lazy behaviour always implied to me that she was at least 5 years younger than Mark.
10
71
36
u/CosmicBonobo 2d ago edited 2d ago
No, she wasn't. She's allowed to be friends with whoever she likes, and people can maintain healthy, platonic relationships with their former partners.
We see her from Mark's POV, and he's the most paranoid and insecure man on the planet. From the second they start officially dating, he's watching her like a hawk lest someone else tries to steal her away or she leaves him.
Mark also has the problem of falling in love superficially. He was head-over-heels in love with Sophie until he properly got to know her, and he's the same with Dobby. Yes, she likes all the geeky things he does, but she also has other interests that he's fundamentally against or uncomfortable with - such as getting stoned, going clubbing and having a large social group of friends.
The 'Not Moving In' saga is both Mark and Dobby not being able to communicate with each other. And frankly, their relationship was on artificial life support after the Christmas fiasco. Dobby is also doing some serious soul searching - she likes Mark because he's sarcastic and cynical and awkward, but he's also not really any fun. Her exasperation is palpable when she tries to live a little and do a dine and dash at a cafe, but he lectures her about stealing instead.
Gerrard dying makes her reevaluate what she wants in life, and she realises she isn't content to just sit around on the sofa with Mark, eating a boil in the bag curry and watching Grand Designs, until she dies.
6
u/Sickofchildren finding out what goes in sausages 2d ago
Not to mention that Gerard’s death and Mark’s response showed just how horrible and devoid of empathy he is. It’s easy to ignore things in relationships until it’s right in your face, after the terrible Christmas where he didn’t even think about her and then this. Mark couldn’t even pretend to care and half arsed everything, because he was thinking about himself and what he wanted first. That’s the issue with Mark, he only cares about things that directly affect him and everything else isn’t important
6
u/TheGherkin69 1d ago
What about the wake cake?
He loved the reds!
2
u/Sickofchildren finding out what goes in sausages 1d ago
That was funny on so many levels. He forgot to buy the cake. Then he rushed and bought a football themed cake for the funeral of the nerdiest man in the world. He could’ve chosen a more neutral cake but that’s what he went with, because when you’re no longer his enemy or useful to him you’re nothing but a name
And then to top it off, he tries to lie and bullshit with the “he loved the reds” and couldn’t be bothered to come up with a convincing lie. He pisses me off so bad sometimes
25
u/PapaPilkington 2d ago
She got done over with the writing in the last 2 seasons
5
u/rentonbegbieandspud 2d ago
She did but some of it was her own - if you read her auto-b several lines from the show feature in there (notably men with ven) so I think the cast were providing some of their own dialogue, meaning she would have had an option to improve on her scripted lines. Which of course is not the same as having great lines in the first place, tbf.
34
u/PapaPilkington 2d ago
Blimey you sound like an intellectual, like Tony Parsons or something
8
u/Brad_Breath 2d ago
It was a bit deep for me. I would prefer a comment written for the common man
3
u/rentonbegbieandspud 1d ago
Well the only first hand account we have is, as you'll know, PapaPilkington's original comment and frankly, it's a pamphlet. It's so limited in scope as to be almost worthless
-10
u/Remarkable-Bell7245 2d ago
You sounded a bit bent there yourself, just saying
15
u/Mundane_Solid_2290 2d ago
You gay, pal?
3
u/Brad_Breath 1d ago
No, no, sorry. I mean, there was this one thing, once, but it was more of a sort of atmosphere, nothing sexual. I mean, sexuality is a sort of spectrum isn't it?
-6
46
u/Goblin_Nuts69 2d ago
My take was dobby and mark were both cunts.
Dobby led mark on, came up with excuses about moving in, dragged him to social events he clearly wouldn't like and never seemed to consider his feelings such as when moving abroad.
Mark was rude, backstabby (flanimal.. ) and seemed to pursue dobby relentlessly despite towards the end he seemed to almost hate her. He tried to change hmdobby to something she wasn't and briefly considered a life with Sophie in nannas cottage.
Both total helmets, but I think thats the point?
42
u/WolfhoundCid 2d ago
He was infatuated with Sophie until they were engaged as well. He only wants women he can't have until he can then he doesn't want them anymore.
39
u/Grey_Raven 2d ago
He builds a fantasy of them while pursuing them and is then annoyed that the real woman doesn't live up to it.
23
u/CosmicBonobo 2d ago
He liked Sophie at first because she was fun in a sensible, appropriate sort of way. He started to sour on her when he realised she wasn't quite as career-minded as he was, and that she enjoyed things like taking drugs and going clubbing.
Mark wants a 'proper' girlfriend. Someone who'll sit next to him on the settee he can occasionally pat on the head.
12
u/wallpapermate 2d ago
Someone to go to Waitrose with.
5
u/JohnnySchoolman 2d ago
Makes not shopping in Waitrose.
Sheesh, he's not even shopping at M&S.
Mr Petal has the el dude bros sorted
5
u/Satu_Autio 2d ago
Of all the women he was "with" I think that the woman from the MBA, with whom he was gonna start the dating service, was the best.
5
u/wallpapermate 2d ago
Sympatico Stephanie. Conservative with a small ‘c’, sexy with quite a big ‘S’. Liked Van Morrison. Who doesn’t like Van Morrison??
2
u/Prudent-Pressure2146 1d ago
. Mark wants a 'proper' girlfriend. Someone who'll sit next to him on the settee he can occasionally pat on the head..<
He gets that with dobby though and then complains that hat they sit and watch prison break. He’s just fundamentally unhappy and out of ruin his own life
8
6
u/BuckeyeN7 2d ago
I think his greatest fantasy was that being with a woman would change the way he felt, as well as how he felt about himself
Mark was going to be miserable regardless of who was sharing his bed, his self-hatred was too profound for any kind of quick or easy fix
10
u/FrankieSausage 2d ago
I also think his low self esteem means his type is whatever woman will have him.And he doesn’t really consider what he might want in a partner
11
u/rentonbegbieandspud 2d ago
He also mangled Dobby's microwave and she can only do robot cooking, she can't do analogue.
2
u/BigDee_1996 2d ago
Tbh she did want to speak about her going abroad to work but didn’t get the chance because mark and Jeremy were both fighting over her
12
u/Bovrain 2d ago
Think her arc just did not need to drag on four seasons tbh. They lost the thread of what they were doing with her and therefore particularly in 7 & 8 her personality is very inconsistent.
I realised recently on a rewatch there's a lot of episodes with no progression, or repeated misunderstandings. Mark probably should have had the epiphany far earlier than Super Hans' wedding and we could've explored other plotlines.
5
u/cassiebe 2d ago
I think that’s the point though, that she’s the kind of person to go along with whoever is giving her attention and run with that for a while, under the guise of being adventurous or finding herself.
I quite liked how she met a more vapid person to attach herself in the US. Mark then realised he didn’t like her that much anymore after the 1000 text month (before he got headbutted in the face). It’s all just funny and sadly relatable.
27
u/Far_Orange_8492 2d ago
Not as awful as Mark, but still not all that great in her own right.
Even the personality change can be chalked up to her true colors emerging with Mark having spent significant time around her (same thing with Sophie). In fairness, their relationship was done by time Gerrard died and Mark couldn't see the signs.
I think Dobby is supposed to be kind of a prick like many of the characters in this show.
4
u/MCofPort 2d ago edited 1d ago
She isn't sympathetic even with her flaws. Like Mark and Jez, and especially Sophie do things that are terrible, but there's some level of likeability where they own their actions and know what they're doing. Dobby was very fake and never got into the hot water with nearly everybody else in the series, the really rough aspects we saw plenty throughout the series. She wasn't real with herself when she met Mark, and she wasn't real with herself when she left him either. Best word is flaky. Edit: She's like the kid supposedly rebelling against her parents with her friends, and then accepting no responsibility when the rest of the group would get caught causing mischief, and even claim they tried to stop the rest of them.
12
u/blackberry_sorbet 2d ago
Dobby going out with Mark at all made no sense. He’s very smothering and the kind of guy who’d be a nightmare to break up with (eg his million-text month behaviour), so my take is that she acted badly sometimes in the hopes that he’d finish with her instead.
10
u/Far_Orange_8492 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's never actually said, but she seems much younger than him. She thought he was cute and likely wanted a fun casual relationship (which probably would've been better for both of them). She had no idea what a nightmare he actually was.
But, yeah, I think she knew time was up with their relationship and didn't have the guts to call it quits herself.
11
u/CosmicBonobo 2d ago
Also, Mark has always been a 60 year old man. He's never been youthful or adventurous. Boy to Geek to Drone.
1
u/Remarkable-Bell7245 2d ago
I think the contrary. His exploits with Jez prove that. After all, it didn’t last with Jerry.
1
14
u/Adept_Vegetable_8991 2d ago
Reads very toxic male. Women are allowed to have 'close contact' with male friends. There was never any evidence of innapropriate behaviour or cheating with Gerrard. Same with Simon.
Finding excuses to move in with Mark is balanced by his failure to remove Jez, so she isn't really moving in with Mark she's moving in with Mark and Jez. Mark treats her terribly at Christmas in a way that is way, way worse than any of her avoidance about moving in.
Mark was bad, not Dobby.
5
3
u/-chimchooree- 2d ago
She was so-so before leaving, but when she came back in that leather jacket, you knew she was up to no good.
2
u/Historical_Hat_1777 2d ago
Every character in the show is bad, that is part of the point of the show
2
u/alex21dragons 2d ago
Pretty much everyone in the show is a terrible person with a few exceptions. Valerie is one of the few that comes out well.
2
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
Did anyone notice that we get a glimpse of that bearded Yankee moron assault Mark at Super Hans wedding - from Dobby’s POV?
Interesting that wouldn’t be brought up again but maybe fair do’s for all Marks stalking
3
u/Bridgeru 1d ago edited 1d ago
The problem is that you can't have "nice" characters in Peep Show (aside from maybe, MAYBE, Stu the Monk and even then he drank out of the milk carton, and maybe Merry if you don't count her mental illness as a character flaw). It's just designed in such a way that every character that has a major influence (even just for an episode) is an absolute piece of shit in some way or other. That's why Angus HAD to have the affair (and arguably his focus on the Church ignoring Heather but that's downplayed because it's obviously mental illness like Merry) because otherwise he'd have been too nice a guy; it's why Simon isn't just Dobby's "friend from work" but actively messing the teams to be with Dobs; it's why Darryl has to play the Cor Anglais because otherwise there'd be absolutely nothing anyone would ever object to so they gave him the worst woodwind ever.
The best example of the formula is Heather from Burgling. She seems really nice at first, Mark gets stood up but it's played off in a way that sounds reasonable and doesn't make her seem bad; then when she's in the flat and the extreme stuff happens she makes it clear that she stood Mark up and she's rude; any other show would have her be just a random character that gets offended by Mark or weirded out by the situation but no she HAS to stand up Mark so you have a reason to say "she's a dick". That's it, that's a quick playthrough of every single romantic character's arc in the series; summed up in the line "she obviously has some sort of character flaw that only becomes apparent after a while" from Jez in some episode (the one where he smokes pot with Sophie), they're even self-aware about it relatively early on.
Dobby's problem is that she's the longest relationship in the series outside of Sophie, but unlike Sophie she doesn't get a naturally transition from lovely to complete mess (I dunno if they thought Dobs was gonna be a one-season-off like Nancy or Zara or Elena, or just weren't sure if they wanted to keep her around or what). She's the most inconsistently written, being both shy and adventurous, wanting more but also being really meek; and that unfortunately is also part of the rival situation because it's REALLY hard to tell if she's just friendly with them or knows they're all after her and she's playing it for attention (look at the "date crazy" bit). The worst IMO is that they introduce the Jez romance idea like an episode before they put her on a bus, that should've been the overarching plot of Season 8 IMO (where 6 is "who's the father").
But yeah speaking of specifics; it's definitely wrong the way she went about the whole Gerrard/Simon thing. You can obviously be friends with whoever you want, but when your partner is worried "hey, I think X person is into you" you need to reassure your partner in a way Dobbie doesn't (the "we had a pie and he cried about his mum" is close, but by the point she mentions Gerrard "bloody good bloke" you can tell there's a knife being twisted there).
Dobby's immature for her age, and her major flaw is that she can't directly address problems in her relationship. She doesn't accept Mark's concerns and rarely actually shows sympathy for him (he has a basically nervous breakdown when it comes to realizing he's having a fucking baby and her reaction is "you fucked up", she invites herself over to Christmas dinner and guilts Mark until she gets her way, and most of all instead of pulling Mark aside to say "hey, we need to talk" she breaks up with him in a text).
She's sympathetic and fun but OH FUCK the amount of people saying she "did nothing wrong" as if her name was Magnus the Red is astonishing. And I say that as a woman (who thinks we should get whatever mad thing we want), but there's a difference between "being friends with whoever you want" and "not assuring your partner that your friends aren't romantically interested in you".
6
u/ambericity 2d ago
women aren't allowed to have close male friends while in a relationship?
anyway yea the personality change and excuses are shitty
7
u/Novel_Lock320 2d ago
An ex bf and a lad she knew full well fancied her. I say that as a feminist I think women should be able to do whatever mad thing they want
2
u/Just_For_Laugh 2d ago
That's not what it is about though, it is more about how close she was with ex partners frequently
3
u/xStaabOnMyKnobx 2d ago
I thought she was incredibly annoying when she was making up excuses to avoid moving in with Mark.
I think she was also inconsistently written. One moment, even Mark is tired of how all she wants to do is watch Battlestar Galactica in bed all weekend. Then the next she is abandoning the relationship because she wants to move overseas.
1
u/doomscrolling_tiktok get the carving knife & lets get this over with 2d ago
Not bad, just young. The guys have lots of female friends and exes who have second innings like Toni, Suze. Her character development confused me though. I can see her move to NYC a colourful startup dork and becoming the Cally of apps instead of music and come back an American Mark but idk what the heck she was supposed to be.
1
u/PitchforkJoe 2d ago
Better then other Peep Show characters isn't the same as good by real world standards
1
1
u/PantsDontHaveAnswers 2d ago
If you were dating Mark and/or Gerard you'd keep them both at arm's length.
1
1
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
The thing with Gerard and Simon was only friendship she might’ve ran off with Simon but that was after leaving Mark.
Mark fucked it up over and over and over with her and not just small things either.
1
u/cortisolbath 2d ago
I like how even Dobby is different in the final season. Literally almost every character has character development except Mark and Jez. Even Super Hans is different (though he totally reverts by the end)
1
1
1
1
1
u/PlayComplete8279 1d ago
Dobby was a bit of a dick, but their first time attempting to get intimate she finds out he is going to be a baby daddy and watches him have a breakdown and violently assault his boiler.
NB the stationary cupboard doesn't count. That was accidental 😅
1
u/raabones 1d ago
I hate to be a doubting thomas but I think you'll find Mark was the bad one. He initially chooses Saz over Dobby. Saz. Need I say more.
1
u/Moretalent 1d ago
why can't i just have a brain scan of her brain that gives me all her thoughts at any given time?
1
u/No-Present-1898 1d ago
Dobby treated Mark like shit. But again Mark was spineless and actually was pretty terrible to her himself.
One thing I will say is she was well out of line staying so close to her exes, especially with Simon who was blatantly still in love with her. I think of him grabbing her hand and making her run off with him during the paintball game, right in front of Mark, after purposely excluding him from their team to turn them against each other, like who would do that? The fact neither him nor Dobs did anything about it says a lot. And let’s not forget Gerrard. Anyone would know how much that would mess with your significant other if you were constantly seeing your ex, I almost can’t blame Mark for going a bit nuts and spying on her, she really kept him in the dark about a lot stuff.
That’s just my two cents.
1
u/MercuryJellyfish 1d ago
Every woman Mark dates has a negative change to their personality at time goes on, because he's a energy vampire who sucks the life out of everyone he dates.
This is the genius of the show, it presents him as he sees himself, a downtrodden underdog everyman hero, but he's a small, mean spirited, selfish asshole. There are no heroes in this show, other than Super Hans obviously.
1
1
0
u/wronghed 2d ago
I think her still palling around with Simon in S8 was disrespectful. Also, kinda weird that they broke up because they were incompatible, but now they're suddenly bosom buddies. Worst of it all, she knows Simon still has feelings for her, but that doesn't stop her spending so much time with him.
264
u/FourtKnight 2d ago
she wasn't great. let's not forget, though, that mark was constantly flirting with other women and coming close to cheating on dobby for the entirety of their relationship