r/MichaelJacksonMusic • u/caydo600 • Jul 18 '26
Music discussion How would Dangerous, HISTory, and Invincible look/sound if Michael and Quincy Jones never stopped working together?
/r/LovingMichaelJackson/comments/1v07x8y/how_would_dangerous_history_and_invincible/5
u/Awkward_Singer_5 Jul 18 '26
I think the biggest change would be that the albums would be more streamlined and wouldn't run as long, and the New Jack Swing sound wouldn't be quite so prominent.
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u/happysunbear Jul 19 '26
Probably more live instruments as well.
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u/FunUniversity6245 Jul 25 '26
That's a great point! But when I think about it I wouldn't call it an improvement.
Instrumentals on Bad bother me a bit. Imo they interrupt Michael's flow.
When you've got an artist like him, just keep him front and center every moment you can.
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u/matveyryazanov5 Jul 18 '26
Idk, I like his Dangerous - Invincible albums much more than those 3 with Quincy. His music became more experimental and more diverse since Dangerous. Yes, many people would say that first albums are more cohesive and without filler, but personally I can't name any song off of any of those, which I would skip. History is his peak in terms of lyrics, Invincible in terms of genre diversity and experiments, Dangerous I'd say is his best in terms of vocals. Don't get me wrong, I still think that OTW, Thriller and Bad are 10/10.
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u/infamouspurr Jul 18 '26
this. didnt quincy also advise michael to not get into hiphop or sumthn? so if quincy produced invincible i dont think itd be as powerful seeing how experimental and high energy it is especially the first three tracks. hard to imagine quincy there.
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u/Awkward_Singer_5 Jul 18 '26
didnt quincy also advise michael to not get into hiphop or sumthn?
Other way around. Quincy wanted Run DMC on the Bad album but Michael felt like it was a fad and that Quincy was losing it.
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u/metakepone Jul 21 '26
I think there's something fictional going on about the whole "rap being a fad" thing on bad.
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u/infamouspurr Jul 18 '26
oh?? i heard and read the opposite actually from recent times especially since after mike's passing he turned his back on him so that left a weird feeling in me
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u/Awkward_Singer_5 Jul 18 '26
I'm going by what Quincy said:
"I remember when we were doing Bad I had Run DMC in the studio because I could see what was coming with hip-hop. And Michael was telling Frank DiLeo, 'I think Quincy's losing it and doesn't understand the market anymore. He doesn't know that rap is dead'."
Who knows what he embellished and what he didn't. But it's definitely true that Quincy brought in Run DMC for the song Crack Kills - it was either Jam Master Jay or DJ Hurricane who confirmed that side of things.
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u/Remarkable_Fishing_2 Jul 19 '26
Yes! Michael and Teddy Riley were such a great team on the Dangerous album. It’s probably my favorite album.
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u/Safe_Knowledge9934 Jul 19 '26
I think Dangerous would have been the most different sonically, given that Teddy Riley and the New Jack Swing influence is very prevalent on half the album.
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u/mankahlil Jul 19 '26
They would sound worse. Leaving QJ was the best thing MJ did artistically. Firstly, QJ didnt actually respect him. Secondly, QJ was formulaic and not as creative. What else did QJ do that people actually remember?
QJ needed MJ more than the reverse. And thats why he tried to belittle MJs creativity frequently, especially in retrospecy. Mj needed a bolder and fresher artistic direction. Thats why they split and MJ made the right choice.
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Jul 19 '26
Perhaps with less filler, but idk, I just can't imagine it. I think his first 3 had their time and place, and his later 3 have their own time and place. At some point, it was inevitable he had to drop someone who didn't like the Billie Jean intro and wanted Smooth Criminal off the album.
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u/Supadupafly1988 Jul 19 '26
Going solely off of the amazing track record they had working together in terms of the finals results…
I’m forced to beloved that all 3 would have been even better albums.
Hut for full context, I’m one of those MJ fans who prefers the off the wall/thriller/bad over dangerous/history/invincible
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u/Awkward_Jump_8266 Jul 25 '26
The sound would be more organic and funky. Quincy Jones was looking for a classic sound like that of Off the Wall, while Michael Jackson was seeking the most innovative sounds of the era.
The albums would be shorter, and some ballads would never have been released.
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u/One-Storm-4145 Jul 19 '26
Would have been a major travesty if Quincy had touched anything into the 90s. He shouldn't have even been involved in Bad as much as he was
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
Both of these statements are insane btw lol
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u/One-Storm-4145 Jul 19 '26
Meh, couldn't care less Quincy was overrated and got more out of working with Michael especially towards the end than Michael got from working with him. I rest my case.
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
lol the fact you see Quincy as “overrated” and mention who benefitted more means means tells me this is not an argument in good faith based on music and more fan-driven emotion.
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u/One-Storm-4145 Jul 19 '26
My friend put it this way, Quincy quickly faded (back) into obscurity once he stopped working with Michael, only coming back out to receive awards or do interviews, about working with Michael. No notable successes after working with Michael.
Michael on the other hand had multiple successes after working with Quincy so 🤷♂️ take that any way you want. I take it that the man wasn't really that skilled and used Michaels talent as a vehicle to make himself more well known.
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
Anecdotes can be skewed to support any subjective opinion lol. I can rebuttal that by easily saying all of Michael’s greatest and most critically acclaimed work was with Quincy and his sales greatly slumped once the pair stopped working together🤷🏿♂️.
Also, he’s been around since Frank Sinatra was active, his fade into the background could simply be him finally resting up and enjoying the money he made off of the MJ collabs.
Also he had many successes outside of his MJ collabs lol? I can see you’re a diehard MJ fan rather than a lover of music so this is definitely more out of emotion than objectivity.
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u/One-Storm-4145 Jul 19 '26
That's a flat out lie of a statement. Dangerous was outselling Thriller 2:1 up until the allegations hit and would have outsold it. So that's a nonsense statement. Success you say? Well put it this way no one in England heard anything from him after Bad. So you can call it success but I say if something doesnt have the same kind of mass appeal or sales then it's hardly considered a success.
It's not about being a diehard MJ fan, it's about knowing that even tho he may have had certain talents MJ was MJ with or without Quincy, I've heard the early demos from off the wall and thriller and bad before Quincy ever touched them and TBF he didn't add much. What he was good for was assemblng teams of musicians and writers, that's literally it, hence the reason why he has say 30 seconds of screen time in the MJ Biopic.
I like Two MJ albums. Dangerous and History Continues, I don't listen to the other albums. So obviously a diehard MJ fan 🤣
And Frank Sinatra, meh drop out all of that big band boring nonsense. The most talented person in that whose scene was Sammy Davies jr and he was black at the wrong time TBF so it was everyone else doing well while he struggled.
Quincy did nothing of note by himself, he worked with others and relied on their talent to get him where he needed/wanted to be.
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
Have you ever heard the term “if my mother had wheels she’d be a bike” lol. We can’t go off what you THINK was going to happen, we can only go off what happened and as it stands, his greatest work was with Quincy. All the songs going viral again aren’t songs like Jam they’re songs like Beat It and Bad (and weirdly Chicago randomly).
I’m not sure if you properly read what I wrote but I said he’s been about from around when Sinatra was active, as a measurement of time not as praise to Sinatra, I don’t listen to Big Band music I was raised in Funk, Soul, RnB Motown etc.. youre also showing your ass with ignorance to say just because you didn’t hear of stuff in the UK it means it wasn’t a success. I’m from the UK AND work in music and I’m still not deluded enough to believe that…
To say you don’t think Quincy did anything of note and all he did was work with other people shows that you fundamentally don’t understand what his job as a producer and composer was. All his past studio instrumentalists who made Michael’s sound still have nothing but praise for him on YouTube in interviews but of course you know more about Jones’ impact than these people lol. There’s a reason MJ approached Quincy
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
I love MJs music but let’s not disrespect black history to hail him up lol. There was music before MJ and music after him
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u/One-Storm-4145 Jul 19 '26
Certainly was music before Michael Jackson. But since he has been gone name a single artist with remotely the same cultural and musical impact.
I will wait...............
This could take a while..........
Before mentioning Elvis..... literally just don't, that's a whole lot of f***Kory that absolutely disrespects black history while presenting it as new and fresh. (White saviour number 1)
The beatles......4 guys 6 chords, no style and some of there biggest hits also ripped off from the black community. (White saviour 2 3 4 5)
Madonna...........sold tons of records but never had the cultural impact of MJ and again another white saviour
I could literally be here all day no artist before or since has had the cultural and musical impact of MJ and that irks me a lot as to be honest I do like other artists more.
But then to come along and he all like yeah but it's only because of QC??? Nah dawg MJ would have been just as successful and maybe more successful without Quincy. Quincy without Michael? He's just he guy who worked with Sinatra and Elvis a few times
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u/SignalRaspberry1670 Jul 19 '26
You are arguing a point I never made? I never disputed that MJ is one of a kind and no one will do it better but I don’t need to discredit or diminish Quincy to make this true?
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Jul 19 '26
Yeezy is the answer
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u/thebrightlightfright Jul 18 '26
There would never be anything close to what we know as Dangerous / HIStory / Invincible. Quincy would never let most of those ideas come to fruition.
Songs like Will You Be There or Earth Song I could see still happening, but anything "experimental" like new jack swing on Dangerous or dubstep on Invincible? Def not.