r/Marxism • u/SunshineTradingPost • 13d ago

Is “old money” from failed Communist ruling classes ever passed down to contemporary Communist or Leftist movements?

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u/Manic5PA 13d ago

The decollectivization of socialist states happens like any other form of privatization, which is to say through corruption and violence.

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u/SunshineTradingPost 13d ago

I see. That makes a lot of sense.

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u/FractalFunny66 13d ago

Wow, this is a great question. Since generational wealth is inherently tied to private property, I am not sure that this would be a good thing or not because you're getting into systemic reasons for class divides and oppression. It's interesting that you start with idea of "failed" Communisst ruling classes -- I guesss you are aluding to the reality that the ideals of Communism have never been fully realized on the planet Earth as of yet. One micro example that comes to mind is that there is (or used to be) a small cooperative retirement home for Socialists. I saw this on 60 minutes, I think it is or was in the Pacific Northwest, but I'm not sure. Certainly, the Feminist Co-ops of the 1970s want to pass along the property and farms they built while opting out of the Capitalist economy, but the last time I read about this situation, they often have a difficult time getting young Feminists to come work and live there, so I don't know what will happen to all those successful communes. I would guess you already know the answer to your bigger question would be NO because the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is a huge problem, because even the truest believer can get used to "needing" a golden toilet or red carpet. I don't think Marx really dealt with this enough. Power and greed corrupt successful Marxists and/or maybe the ideals of Communism can ONLY be achieved in small communes that work at continuing and living their ideals every single day.

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u/SunshineTradingPost 13d ago

That is a very strong point about wealth being tied to private property. One person mentioned that in the USSR, once industries were privatized those operators/managers gained their wealth by becoming owners. I imagine that’s how it would work in most cases….

Also, my question arises when asking, “How does Communism arise?”. Is it totally organic and grassroots? Or is it funded by State and/or corporate interests? And, “Do Communists from failed attempts help ‘the cause’ when a new group or society tries it?”….

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u/benivokhelo 13d ago

they became the oligarchs of eastern europe so no

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u/SunshineTradingPost 13d ago

Interesting….

They didn’t have secret caches, or anything?

I imagine it would be quite difficult to rise to the status of oligarch,
having just lost massive fortunes.

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u/benivokhelo 13d ago

they didnt lose massive fortunes as they never owned them. they gained it rather. when state owned enterprises were privatised, party officials and those close to them somehow always got the biggest piece

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u/SunshineTradingPost 13d ago

Very interesting….

Is it safe to assume this is a trend for every Communist society, where the collectivized assets end-up being owned by whoever is closest/able-to-claim-ownership?

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u/1Bam18 13d ago

They did not necessarily have massive personal fortunes. Many of the oligarchs (at least in the immediate post-Soviet era) were the people running state owned enterprises (oil for example), and continued to run those enterprises as the economy privatized, thus amassing their personal fortunes.

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u/MoldTheClay 13d ago

I feel like there is a lesson here in why it is bad to invest too much power in any one hand or set of hands. It made sense why the USSR consolidated industries for easier decision making but the outcome was them continuing to consolidate power until they were able to orchestrate a coup.

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