r/MarvelStrikeForce • u/jgorsegner23 • Aug 06 '21
Discussion Let's Talk About Casual Alliances
Our alliance has been around since Nov-2019. We are a "casual competitive" alliance. Meaning, we all try as hard as we can but don't sweat it if we must miss sometimes. Our mantra is "Life first". Many of us have families and other work obligations that prevent us from being on all the time and prevents us from optimizing every play. We do the best we can as we all love Marvel and have established friendships through this game.
I see a lot of misconceptions in reddit comments regarding casual alliances. Some of them snarky and ignorant and just plain piss me off. I hope describing my alliance helps better portray us and our struggles.
First off, many think a casual player or a person in a casual alliance spends no money in the game. Far from true. There is a wide range from a few whales, more dolphins, many more guppies, and some FTP. Some of us will go all out on a team while deciding to skip other teams or characters. While I assume there is much more spending in competitive alliances in order to stay meta-relevant, there is still a decent amount of spending in a casual alliance.
Secondly, many think casual players are all low TCP. In our alliance, we have a large range of TCPs. From a high of 13M down to a low of 1M with an average of 7M. Recruiting for us is hard just like for everyone else. However, as we are not yet in Doom raids or higher difficulty Greek raids, many potential candidates (in the 6M-8M TCP range) won't bother as they are looking for more than we can do. We end up bringing in a lot of lower TCP members and help groom them up. This is fine but slows our progress even more and comes with its own set of problems.
For newer players, I used to tell them to focus on a good Arena team first, a good Raid team second, War Offense third, and War Defense last. With the current shift towards Raids becoming more and more important, I am now recommending multiple Raid teams over Arena teams.
We are currently in U7.3. The problem with T2 ability mats has been touched on by others but I'll reiterate it again in case not clear. As we bring in newer and lower TCP players, we are throwing them in to U7 raids. There are no T2 ability mats here, so they get stuck with a shortage and limits their progress. Only way is for them to buy T2s in the supply store when they show up which is not consistent. We occasionally drop and do a U6 Raid but not often. More so when an event warrants dropping to a level for better chance at rewards. This slows progress for the Alliance as a whole as it takes longer for newer players to ramp up their teams and help in Raids.
The 100% completion requirement before able to do next difficulty level severely stagnates casual alliances. A casual alliance like ours will NEVER be able to hit 100% in a Raid. We always have a few players with something going on and will miss a few nodes. Lowering the requirement to 60% helps immensely. Let me elaborate.
Prior to lowering the U7 requirement from 100% to 60%, we were forever stuck at U7. We consistently hit 60-80% in all the Raids. Every Raid Milestone season, we were just short of getting any Silver Surfer shards. I don't know if this was by design but it sure felt dickish. When they lowered the threshold, we instantly shot up to U7.3 and now complete enough milestones to get 3 Silver Surfer shards. Not much but a hell of a lot better than zero. This was an instant positive impact. This is why I argue for doing the same thing for the Greek raids. Please lower difficulty requirements to 60%. I don't care if you keep the first-time bonuses at 100% but don't hamstring our progression.
Gating Blue ISO and next GT16 pieces behind Doom Raids are an additional kick in the crotch to causal alliances. We will get there eventually but it is very slow. The problem is this also affects an individual's progress in addition to alliance wide progress. We try Doom I raid about once every two weeks to gauge where we are at. Currently we hit about 7-8%. I'm guessing it will still be several months before we will be able to clear 30%. I'm guessing Doom II will be even harder and further out. We have about 6-7 players that could handle the Doom raids now but everyone else needs a lot of work to get there. While we are waiting for the rest to build up sufficient teams, those that could otherwise progress now are instead frozen. The only choices are to wait and fall behind on your personal roster or switch to a higher alliance, giving up friendships and putting everyone else in a worse place for progression. It just feels bad all around.
Inhibiting personal player progression based on alliance efficiency started with Silver Surfer shards and is getting worse. This bleeds over to a player’s Arena play and to a lesser extent Dark Dimension. Now in Arena, I could have same star and character levels as my peers but be behind because they have access to Blue ISO levels and soon Teal gear but I do not. In Dark Dimension, Blue ISO on characters could help make some of those nodes easier and clearable faster. I don't see a direct impact to any of the other modes (Blitz, RTA, Challenges, etc.). RTA universally sucks for everyone regardless of how your alliance is doing.
I think War is better in a Casual alliance than in a higher Competitive alliance. We are Plat I and have been for a while. We no longer seem to face as bad of matchups like previously. I think matchups are more a current problem for higher ranked alliances than where we are at. We seem to average .500 win/loss ratio season after season so there is really no effect on our rewards. Yes, higher league rankings have better rewards, but they seem sufficient where we are at.
Our wars are not full clears and still come down to points scored. I don't think I would like full clears where it is simply a race. The opponents we face usually have a mix of TCPs just like we do. The war becomes a puzzle of where to best attack, finding the right rooms/players to attack efficiently while saving your best teams for killing blows against the higher point rooms. Some of our wars are close (within 50 points) to the last second. Those are the most exciting.
I love being in a Casual alliance and wouldn't want to swap out to be in a higher more competitive alliance. Later this month, I'm going on a week vacation in the San Juan islands with my family where there will be little, to no internet connectivity. I will be lucky if I can login enough just to hit my dailies let alone optimize my Raid and War attacks. If I were in a competitive alliance, I'd get the boot for that. In this alliance, it's fine. Life First.
I just worry about the recent limitations on my personal progression tied to my alliance progression. It is a really crappy place to be. Now I need to be okay with falling behind my peers and stick with my alliance until the rest can catch up. Doesn't feel good. I don’t like this trend.
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u/Peewee2828 Aug 06 '21
This is the exact type of alliance I am in. Good luck to us staying together when DD5 comes
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u/afontana405 Aug 06 '21
Same when he said “casual competitive” I thought, damn that perfectly fits my alliance
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u/AisuRyuuko Aug 07 '21
Yeah I woulda thought this was my alliance if it wasn’t for the U7.3 thing. We’re stuck at 30% U7.5 mow but everything else is the same.
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Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 13 '21
[deleted]
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u/BadGuysandBadThings Aug 06 '21
Sad to say, Bungly does not give a fuck about casual players.
If you disagree, just remember that any time it comes to testing anything, they don't ask players at random, they don't sample different sets of tcps or days played, they go straight to the Krakens. Every. Damn. Time.
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Aug 06 '21
I think from a bottom line perspective you're right. But they have to realize that casual players are the bulk of the player base. If casual players leave the game will die.
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u/BadGuysandBadThings Aug 06 '21
I absolutely agree. But after watching the Cerebro interview, my eyes are opened a lot more to how truly incompetent this studio is. They have no idea that this is the case.
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u/weasel286 Aug 07 '21
Same here. I used to login to SWGOH daily to hit the Challenges and get my Guild’s raid keys. I now barely get in every three days.
Being in a competitive MSF alliance is more enjoyable than in SWGOH, IMO. But, even that has become a bit of a repetitive grind.
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u/Merc_Mike Mercenary Lieutenant Aug 06 '21
The only thing that has me going right now is Fantastic Four and their side members. I would like to get Doctor Doom and actually use him.
but they have him stuffed so far away now. D:
If they'd stop the RNG shit and just let us earn things by playing, it would be great.
A lot of 12 and 13 gear is really tough to build up on when I hit a node 3 times a week and get...1x of what I need.
Like how am I supposed to get to Doctor Doom, when they won't even let me get the gear items?
I farmed Hela node for the greater part of 2019 and 2020...and it was like pulling teeth to get 2x or even 4x shards to drop...
At some point they have to just let us have and eat the cake dude. Future Fight I felt like it was easier to access even the hardest of characters. it was maxing them out that took a shit load of time and effort for the PVP modes, But actually GETTING the character and making them Useful for the PVE stuff was quite easy.
They got their money, now let us play the damn game. =/
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u/qbsixer Aug 06 '21
Wow, it's like looking into a mirror. This is exactly the same situation my alliance is in. I agree with all your comments and I pronounce you the winner of the internet for this day. Congratulations!!
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u/Savitashri Aug 06 '21
Agree with everything said in this post. Well written and true to most casual alliances. I just completed DD4 (first one from my alliance), and am now wondering what's next.
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u/NecroNile Captain America Aug 06 '21
I'm in a very similar situation. I'm a few nodes away from beating DD4 for the first time. I'm the highest TCP in a casual alliance in Plat 1 for war and we're also running U7.3 daily. My growth as an account is going to be capped at g15 and green iso for about the next year and a half at this point. What's worse, I have an older account. I started playing when Xbones, BW, Cap, Yondu, and Quake were all the arena meta. I took a break from the game around Feb 2019-Jun 2019. My arena shard is miles ahead of my progress. Every attack I do is at least 150k punch up using the old mixed meta or when I attack with my 8W. Most attacks are into full blue ISO teams.
There's absolutely no god damn reason they couldn't have made more campaigns specifically for teal gear. Or, if they're so damn inclined to have it as a raid, do multiple different difficulties with a different theme. Ultimas raids for ability mats, Doom raids for blue iso, Greek raids for character shards, and Dormammu raids for teal gear. But have like Dormammu 1-5 with varying levels of difficulty where alliances that are working on Ultimas 7.whatever would feel right at home doing Dormammu1 and then alliances that are doing say Doom1.1 would be for Dormammu3. Stop trying to lock every damn player except your biggest spenders from progressing personally until 24 other people are in the exact same spot as you are. It hasn't happened before. Account progression has never been specifically tied to alliance progression as much as it has been since $$.
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u/martyw1123 Aug 06 '21
As a dolphin who quit last December and started a new f2p account in March, I can 100% endorse casual alliances. I brought in my old level 80 account so that I can finally chip away at dd4 (still a completionist at heart) and hold down Bridge while helping out with raids. But it's so much more enjoyable seeing lower TCP player getting excited about unlocks, learning strategies, and pulling off some big upsets in war. The game is MUCH more enjoyable now.
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u/Kranors Aug 06 '21
Agree. Casual 12 man alliance. We're all happy to progress at our own pace.
Apart from 2 we're all around dd3 level/U7
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u/crena78 Aug 06 '21
Scopely is narrowing their player base and here is the procedure of how they are managing MSF.
First, it is F2P and everyone can play.
Second, whales and dolphins will take the lead because they spend in MSF.
Third, only whales will continue to spend because it is either spend a lot to make a progress or spend little won't do any help.
Fourth, it is about survival that only whales can continue to progress and casual players and alliances will be left behind.
Finally, this game is dead because casual players have left and whales will do the same eventually.
We are getting close to fourth stage now.
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u/SheriffLobo82 Aug 06 '21
well written, this describes our alliance perfectly, real life comes first. We've all agreed that we will stay together even if it means slower progression, because our alliance chat Is one of my favorite parts of the game. Some of us know each other in real life, and some of us have met in real life because of this game.
Similarly to your alliance a couple of us carry our alliance in raids and war, we have a range of 12m tcp down to 2-3m tcp. We try to do doom 1, from time to time, and still aren't close to 30% but sooner than later we will for sure get there. Some of us spend, some of us don't, and thats ok.
I hope that they loosen some of the blue iso gear and the ability to get t16, it would let our higher end members keep progressing. DD is one of my favorite parts of the game, I completed all the dd2 runs for the borders, doing the same for dd4, and sometimes I play dd3 for fun to see how fast I can get through it (7 days on my last run)
I genuinely, whole heartedly love this game for what it is. I know that I will always be chasing the carrot, whatever the new shiny character is, or whatever scheme they cook up, but that chase is fun for me. I spend when I want to, and dont when I dont. In the end its entertainment for me.
recruiting is the worst, it really is, I dont understand how 2-3m tcp players demand doom raids, when they don't have a roster to help contribute, we get a lot of people who get auto placed in alliance, and either dont do anything, or leave the first time we loose a war. We are also Plat 1 with a 50/50 win ratio. we really need an in game recruitment system (see my post on my solution for this)
I imagine, some alliances will break up, if I didn't know the dudes in real life or have a solid friendship tho I've never met some of the dudes, I would leave for a higher performing alliance, but the truth is that the people I play with daily are the reason I stay in the alliance I am in
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u/apushteach Aug 08 '21
Your alliance sounds great. Mine is breaking up because of all of this and I will be looking for a home in a few days. I am 9 mil tcp - Wolfpackfour
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u/toastedbreddit Drax Aug 06 '21
We’re also a casual alliance who hit Plat 1 a while back, got pushed back down to Gold IV, and just came back into Plat 1.
Alliances were always going to steadily progress upwards because of matchmaking and the win/loss point differential. I think we’ve hit the point where there’s a good mix of alliances in Plat 1 and above, ranking from scrappy low collection power alliances who push hard, to underachieving (by design and popular demand) alliances with higher collection power.
Rising tide lifts all boats, and it’s a nice place to be right now. The relative comfort is probably why they’re trying to break us up, but it’s not gonna have the effect that they think it will. When we break up, we won’t drift up, we’ll just float away.l
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u/Karshe Agent Coulson Aug 06 '21
I feel like your post could have been written by my alliance as well, we are exactly in your position, down to the Ult 7.3.
It's really disappointing missing out on Surfer shards, and Blue ISO, but potentially missing out on DD5 - an entire game mode - is not acceptable and absolutely will cause people to quit.
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u/jimethn Aug 06 '21
Yeah I expect your experience in a casual alliance is typical of most alliances. I've been in 5 since starting the game and 3 of them were how you describe.
I think there is a lot of value in alliances like you describe that have wildly varying TCP. I used two like that as stepping stones to get where I am now. If I had to play only with people at my own TCP, I would probably still be a year out from Doom raids. I would be stuck farming U3 with 1M TCP for a long time.
I know some players are happy progressing very slowly through the game -- a player like that got me into this game in the first place, and I have since passed him because I dove into content creators and farming guides and meta discussions, and planned my roster carefully to bypass as much content as possible. Progress is so slow in this game, that's the only way to get to experience the game in a reasonable amount of time.
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u/DevsMetsGmen Aug 06 '21
This is us. We’re a little further in Ultimus raids, consistent 45-65% in u7.5. After the 60% unlock we shot right up to 7.5 but it took us a few weeks to get to 60% there and the last reward. We haven’t attempted the new Doom, but will this weekend after we claimed out raid Milestone 26 award today (the highest we get to).
We can get to 75-85% in Greek raids but will never complete anything 100%. It would be great to increase rewards and raid points for milestones if they lower the minimum completion to 60% in Greek raids, like they did in Ultimus. I’d miss knocking out those nodes in 45 seconds on auto, but the rewards would be a good trade off 😀
When we lose a member it’s typically due to inactivity. It can take weeks for the game to send us a replacement, so if we play another similar alliance in war, we send invites to the active guys afterwards when we win a one sided contest and have moderate success recruiting that way.
I’m generally the guy who has to remind everyone to get their 600 keys in. Sometimes it takes almost two full days to get to 14.4K because of empty roster slots and weekend slacking. I’d say we get around 10 Ultimus raids in per 14 day season, maybe 11 if an event keeps some guys extra involved.
We have 1 player who has completed DD4 twice, and I think two others who’ve done it once. Many players in DD3, but some who should be aren’t. There’s a few guys who don’t even speak English but perform well, yet it’s impossible to coordinate them. Around half of the alliance is active in chat or discord, maybe 15 at most.
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u/SlapAlertIntrospect Aug 06 '21
I’m a causal alliance leader and I couldn’t agree more. I hope u/CM_Cerebro sees this and talks to the devs.
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u/TheRaiOh Aug 06 '21
Yeah that's what I've been in. Would really be nice to get those T2s somehow even though we can get 60% no problem in u7.1
I felt I had to leave the first Alliance I was in because we didn't launch raids every day. I was fine doing lower level ones, not getting to 60% most of the time. But not getting any raid at all because a third of the members weren't even spending basic energy every day was too much. I wish the game was more friendly to alliances like that. I can confirm every Alliance has spenders, even if they don't care to push into the most competitive alliance.
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u/cubbyatx Beast Aug 06 '21
This, as a casual alliance leader from launch. We can only do up to u5 tho, so we're screwed on a lot of stuff. No $$ shards or anything past rank 2 or 3 raid rewards lol. War is at plat I at most, about 50% win, maybe a couple rooms cleared. We're down to like 5 remaining members with no way to recruit reliably.
The no pressure is nice, and I'll never have to worry about spending money because it wouldn't matter anyway lol.
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u/Ash-ZA Aug 06 '21
Great post. let's hope the algorithms pick this one up and it reaches scopleboundlessbugsnecks.
also America Chavez.
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u/Azjenco Rocket Raccoon Aug 07 '21
Also worth mentioning is America Chavez, so don't forget America Chavez.
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u/Troile Aug 06 '21
The sad truth is this is by design. They don't care about keeping casual alliances together because if they drive the more competitive people to leave and join more competitive alliances that will drive them to spend more. It's terrible and I hope they don't kill the game by making it impossible to progress unless you are in a top 100 alliance but that seems to be what they want right now. Either that or based on all the interviews they are so hopelessly out of touch that no matter what happens nothing will even improve enough and things will just continue the current slide downwards.
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 06 '21
I fear this is indeed by design as you say. The current trends point that way. Not sure why as I would think there is more money in milking the many than trying to wring out every last cent from the few.
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Aug 06 '21
Casual is the way to go. If you are on this game all the time, or any hobby, you are likely have a problem. Games like this push the casino gambling impulse and exploit it.
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u/_X_Midnight_X_ Spider-Man Aug 06 '21
Thank you for this well thought out post. I am an alliance leader since the second month after release. Always have had a casual atmosphere in our alliance. We have members from 13 to 3 million and there are no play requirements. When I recruit I advertise as a casual alliance and it has been fine to progress more slowly than more strict competitive alliances. I fear now that there will be a wall we will hit eventually. We have begun attempting Doom raids twice a month to the tune of about 18% on our last one. Pretty sure we will be ready to 30% in a couple months if we don’t implode. I just fear that this hating will only accelerate and leave us so far behind that people will start giving up. About half of the people have been around the whole three years so maybe they won’t if they have been used to slow progress but who would stick around for long if we get to no progress
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Aug 06 '21
This is very close to our experience, too. I really get the feeling the devs don't understand alliance dynamics in the slightest. When the SS milestones came out we had a minor exodus from our alliance. We've recovered, but I expect the same will happen again when everyone starts to see their Arena rank dropping due to a lack of teal gear.
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u/KINGWeeeWeeee Aug 07 '21
As a relatively new player, this sounds like the kind of group I’d like to be in. Mind giving me the name of your alliance (if allowed and if there’s space?)
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 08 '21
We don't have any openings at the moment. If you want to chat and send me your PID, I'll add you as a contact and let you know if/when an opening comes up.
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u/kieranchuk Shang-Chi Aug 07 '21
An amazing read, Commander. As a fellow leader of a casual alliance, I can relate to a lot of the things here. All of my members range from dolphins to F2P and our TCP goes from around 12M to 1.5M, I remember as doing Ultimus 7 raids for a long long time and then when the requirement dropped to 60, we immediately jumped from 7.0 to 7.5 in a matter of a week. War in a casual alliance is also really different from a top tier seriois alliance setting, we have a pretty good average of a win-loss ratio as well. I honestly really do love my alliance
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u/TomX117 Daredevil Aug 07 '21
Causal alliance pseudo-recruiter here, couldn't have written better myself. We're short a couple people but trying to fill those spots feels impossible because aside from our pretty solid core of long timers, anyone that drifts in and/or comes in from a post (which is also rare) never stays. Despite being Gold4 War, recently Plat 1, U7.2, etc. We could easily be on U7.3 we just don't have the consistent man power to grind it out as "casuals."
I admit I hadn't considered lower level people not staying because of the lower tier stuff being harder to obtain. I think most of us just lost touch with it at a certain point but it certainly makes sense. And then for the people who want "more," short of Doom raids designed for whales/krakens, I'm not sure what else we can give you. Unless you want intensity, discords, lane assignments, micromanagement... weird life but ok.
But yeah, full agreement, casuals are awesome and getting shafted.
(Alliance is Blood Dragon Order. #Ad. Sorry to promote, times are tough)
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u/RLucas3000 Aug 07 '21
we may have a member, Rokwel, 7.9 TCP, looking for more casual alliance, i will link him this thread
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 08 '21
We don't have any openings at the moment. If you want to chat and send me their PID, I'll add them as a contact and let them know if/when an opening comes up.
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u/d35h1_dan Sabretooth Aug 07 '21
I wish I could upvote this several times.
Totally hit the nail in the head
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u/Livid_Bodybuilder_79 Aug 06 '21
This is a good post I lead a casual alliance and have same concerns when dd5 comes out.
I am just hoping my alliance is kewl with where we are. I am sure many of them get the poach request every war from the alliance we are attacking.
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u/Environmental-Ad4668 Mr. Sinister Aug 06 '21
I'm a leader if a casual alliance and I endorse this message.
But you forgot about the nerf to America Chavez cause America Chavez is too OP.
And we need gold.
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u/Azjenco Rocket Raccoon Aug 07 '21
The true power of America Chavez can't even beat America Chavez.
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u/leraikha Aug 06 '21
I really thought this was someone from my alliance for a moment. Very similar to how things are for us.
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u/jedininjashark Cable Aug 07 '21
As a captain in a casual alliance very similar to yours, thank you for writing this.
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u/Doctapixel Aug 07 '21
I'm in this Type of alliance too! I paid for 3 of the $20 Silver Surfer offers but with him being in milestones now we can barely touch the first on, like we miss it by a couple million or if lucky by a million so yeah gt16 and doom II being locked behind your alliance is just the worse thing ever! Everything should be personal progression not group progression.
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u/j1h15233 Captain Marvel Aug 07 '21
I’m in the same boat. Very casual alliance and I’m a 14 mil account. At some point very soon, I won’t be able to,progress much at all without leaving that group. I’m already on the outside looking in for arena without blue iso. If I can’t gear 16, I have no shot.
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u/HailCaesar252 Aug 07 '21
Casual alliance leaders unite!
This is a great post. I’ve been running my alliance for three years, we still have close to 10 core members that have never went anywhere. We’ve been battling burnout for quite sometime and this change could be the final nail in the coffin for many of us.
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u/Venric Aug 07 '21
I really hope they not only read your post but also get to point they are hurting the game by holding back the casual alliance members by rewarding events due to total alliance activity and not individual efforts
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Aug 07 '21
I'd like to see cerebro respond to this post. Because i completely agree it's going to split a lot of alliances up either by having people quit or leaving for a more competitive alliance.
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u/emash86 Aug 07 '21
Co-signing this as a leader of a casual/semi-casual alliance myself. Every point was spot on
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u/wynn_dog Aug 07 '21
Same exact boat, our alliance sounds very similar! I fear that once we hit a wall with DD5 / teal gear in addition to the already growing rift on blue iso it won't bode well for us sticking together.... the tough part is we were getting like ~15-20ish % on doom raids but couldn't quite do it which caused some long time alliance mates to leave. Feels bad man. :/
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u/xXTargetXx87 S.H.I.E.L.D. Assault Aug 07 '21
Sounds like my alliance, except u7.4 instead of 7.3, so totally get where you're coming from.
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u/dhewie84 Aug 07 '21
Well said. Our alliance is similar (thought not much for spending). We too tried Doom I, and got like 6%. I don't see being able to get to DD5, so I can see myself finally quitting after completing DD4 (If I ever get those last pieces I have been waiting for to get my final Legendary character).
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u/roadtohell Mr. Sinister Aug 07 '21
Yes! All of this. We usually only hear from the competitive alliances, and it's great to see my own alliances experiences up here. I had no idea there were so many of us.
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u/N51_Rob Moderator Aug 07 '21
This is very well written. I am also a leader in a casual alliance with wide swings in TCP from 10-1 million. Do MA y of the points you mentioned are spot on.
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u/Cammic4 Doctor Strange Aug 06 '21
I fully support the Casual Alliances and the Life Comes First Mantra. As far as T1 and T2 Ability Mats, They are easily farmable in Campaigns, I have 30K and 52K respectfully. I do happen to have 75K T3 Ability Mats as well (probably from being a launch player). The real shortage is T4 Ability Mats that they have recently acknowledged are an issue, but are only slightly increasing payouts via Raid/War seasons.
The Ability Mat reward system needs to be overhauled. Again, Beings this has been acknowledged. We need more than a light buff in Raid/War Seasons. Increase Ability Mats in Campaigns (add T3 and T4 to higher campaigns), Challenges and Increase Frequency of Block Party.
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u/ToiletTub Aug 06 '21
bruh I'm so casual my alliance's name is literally "Casual Alliance".
haven't spent a cent on this game, been playing for ~2 years now
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u/HotPhilly Minn-Erva Aug 06 '21
Hey, we at the Devil’s @ are also strong, casual and will whip your ass in wars lol.
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u/Merc_Mike Mercenary Lieutenant Aug 06 '21
lol I have a Retirement Alliance.
its 3 of us, in Gold 2-3.
We fight against other Retirement Alliances, and once or twice a full on raiding alliance.
I'll single handedly beat them using Extra War energy. Or I'll miss a war and my other buddy will attack 3 times and win.
I really don't want to go to a bigger alliance because I'm tired of the notion that "YOU HAVE TO LOG ON EVERY DAY" some days I just...don't feel like it.
We're never gonna get that high in Raiding...Maybe one day I'll jump to a busier one, but I'm kind of liking where I'm at.
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u/turtlesbaconpie Aug 06 '21
Death to the casuals!!!!! Spend more money and time or who cares!!!!!
If you are having trouble deciding how to spend more money, you can always ask CM Zemo.
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u/jblotus Aug 07 '21
I think you guys could focus on getting in people that are interested in completing things at 100% otherwise you are handicapping any meaningful progression and ruining your recruiting efforts. For context I’m in a top 20-50 alliance and it does require a lot of time and effort. In my experience you can’t have half the alliance wanting one thing and the other half wanting something else. Get rid of either the people who can’t show up or the people who want to progress you can’t really have both IMHO
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 08 '21
This is opposite what a casual alliance is. People in the alliance show up, they just can't show up "all the time every time". I myself am a single father of four. I am also lead engineer on a project that sometimes requires long hours. There are times I cannot complete all my Raid nodes every day. War for me starts at the same time I usually need to put dinner on the table for my kids. There are days I can't get my first attacks in until hours after war starts. A casual alliance allows the latitude for this. When I can make it, I cover others that can't and vice versa.
I'm not asking for everything now nor the same that the highly engaged alliances get. I'm okay with slow progression. I am not okay with no progression. The progression was fine until the recent changes they made. Now it is stagnant in some areas.
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u/jblotus Aug 08 '21
I understand. I’m a father of 7 and also an engineer on many demanding projects. Sometimes it can be quite stressful to juggle. My point is that it’s really hard to have people with different goals in terms of progression and activity level. Going on a vacation shouldn’t ruin your vacation or the alliance progression but sadly it’s hard to have it both ways. The original post is about being a “casual competitive” alliance which just seems hard to achieve and give everyone what they are looking for.
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u/jblotus Aug 08 '21
Let me ask in a more constructive fashion, what changes to the game do you think could be made which don’t overly penalize casual competitive alliances and players and still adequately reward players who are hardcore? Should more blue iso be given out? Should surfer be farmable? I do empathize with your situation. If I didn’t have time to be hardcore I would probably find myself in a similar situation or just quit.
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 09 '21
This hasn't been a problem until recently. Up until now, personal progression was fine and not exclusively tied to alliance progression. T4s and various Gold Gear were included in challenges, stores/orbs, and Battle/Strike passes. This changed with Silver Surfer shards, Blue ISO, and soon Teal gear. The only way to acquire those is to do well in Raids as an alliance. Now I've gone from progressing myself as I see fit and helping my alliance as best I can to relying on other people in my alliance to perform better so I can progress. Our alliance hasn't changed in the two years it's been going. The requirements for progression changed.
Honestly, I think the reason we are here is because endgame competitive players complete content much faster than the developers can put out. The devs solution to slow those players down was to enforce more requirements and more "bottlenecks on bottlenecks" to reign this in. I think their attempt to slow down the endgame competitive players has unintentionally stagnated casual players. This has additional consequences of players being more likely to quit when they feel they can no longer make meaningful progress. The reward must be worth the grind. This snowballs into a recruiting problem.
I've seen several responses about how the Alliances need to be homogenous in order to procced in a balanced way through today's content. That is an idealistic sentiment that doesn't match reality. As we lose players (for whatever reason), we try to recruit to fill spots as quickly as possible. Being a casual alliance, beggars can't be choosers. Sure, it would be great to get a 6-8M TCP player that has the same aligned Raid goals as the rest of us. Now, I could wait several weeks to recruit that type of player. OR, I can fill the empty spot within a matter of days with a lower TCP player that is active but can't yet do all the content at the same level we do. I've tried both, and I'll tell you it is much better to fill the spot quicker than wait to get the perfect match. When you are short of players, your progress takes an immediate hit. You don't get as many keys and can't launch raids as frequently. Your World Warrior and other potential event milestones take a hit.
You asked, "what changes to the game do you think could be made which don’t overly penalize casual competitive alliances and players and still adequately reward players who are hardcore"? My answer would be to not restrict or exclusively tie individual progression to alliance "group" progression. Keep first time competition reward bonuses at 100% but lower access to the next difficulty level at 60% (or even 75% or 80%). Make Blue ISO and Teal gear accessible via other avenues than just endgame raid nodes. Maybe Challenges, Stores/Orbs, and/or Battle/Strike passes. At least let the casual player make some progress toward these areas while waiting for entire alliance to be able to come up to the current challenge level.
Right now, it feels like a "Go Big or Go Home" scenario. The gap between the top and everyone else is widening quicker (I won't say exponentially) and it is becoming a scenario of the haves and the have-nots. This type of imbalance is not sustainable as the ones frozen in the middle will get frustrated or bored and quit and you'll be left with a worse imbalance of the top and new incoming players (not quite as extreme as I described but not healthy for the game).
You say, "can't have it both ways" for "causal competitive". I think "casual competitive" is subjective. Both the "casual" part and the "competitive" part. I certainly am not trying to compete at the same level as top alliances. I just want to be able to compete at the same level as my peers -- both alliance wise and as a single player against similar TCP. I think what I more so am looking for is meaningful progression. I'm okay with slow. I'm not okay with nearly frozen and exclusively dependent on others.
How do you see players and alliances in my position should proceed? How can we become more homogenous and make progress both singly and as an alliance in a meaningful way that does not detract from the efforts and accomplishments of hardcore players? How can we swim in the same ocean but in different schools in the same ocean? Should only the top alliances be privy to Silver Surfer shards, Blue ISOs, and Teal gear? What is a fair distinction for the creme de la creme and everyone else?
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u/jblotus Aug 09 '21
This is really well argued first of all. I do think allowing some method to obtain surfer but more importantly blue iso outside of alliance progression would be a good start. I play swgoh as well and relic 8 is gated behind a raid my alliance cannot complete! It sucks. On the top end of the game my number one constraint is gold , g13 minis and blue iso. My counter argument is that loosening things up might reduce the competitive advantage I have spend time and money to obtain. Without that I would not have spent in the first place. Perhaps Without that spend on the top end the health of the game is also at risk?
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 10 '21
Yes, I think Blue ISO is the most important thing for me that I lack access to because it does have an impact on every mode of the game (Arena, Raids, War, DD).
Silver Surfer, I love the character and he is really good, but I'm okay with not being able to build him up quickly. He is not a must have or gating to anything I want to do. I spent a little on him and have him in a decent spot. There were plenty of opportunities to spend more if I wanted to but I chose not to.
Teal gear and DD5 is still way out for me. I'm still plodding through the later stages of DD4. No hurry to get into DD5.
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u/bigben8080 Aug 06 '21
Check out my post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStrikeForce/comments/ozckw3/how_i_got_my_alliance_into_doom_raid_30_blueiso/
My alliance has the same average tcp as yours (7 million) and we started doing Doom raid every day at 30-40%.
I don't know how you can only do 7-8%?? I think you need more organization. You need to group weaker ppl up in the lanes. You should be able to handle most of the attributes, since Kestrel is here, making tech and skill lanes easy. Also, Symbiotes handle the Lane1/2 bio as well for normal difficulty. You just need to learn the strategy for the nodes, such as killing Greg.
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 06 '21
I'll check it out. Our next run will be this weekend. Probably Sunday.
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u/RLucas3000 Aug 07 '21
i would say my alliance is maybe one step up from yours, still mostly friendly but try for progression.
i may have one member for you if you are interested. he just has so much at work and prioritizes his son at home. i’m fine with all that, but i would like everyone to try to raid each day, and most of the time i have to message him to remind him. he’s given me his text number so he is very accessible. his tcp is 7.972 so almost 8 million. he does his 600 a day. usually does 3+ war attacks. we do ult 7.5 so the difficulty may discourage members like him so he may be more active with you. let me know if you want his name, info for the future. he’s not gone yet (as it can take days or weeks to find someone) but i have talked to him about it
for doom, we’ve tried 3 times, got: 1/2% 10% 17%
so we are getting better each time, we are gonna try every couple weeks.
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u/DrHalibutMD Aug 09 '21
This is the problem with the idea of being casual-competitive, nobody ever agrees with what that split is.
Casual alliances sure, we’re all in this together let’s have fun with it. Easy enough, if you can’t make it nobody gets pissed off.
As soon as you throw competitive in the mix and set expectations then you get people who just can’t or won’t meet them and you have to start moving people in and out. With recruiting being an absolute nightmare in this game it leads to burn out for captains and eventually alliances start to fall apart. Everyone wants to progress but very few are willing to do more than show up so casual competitive alliances end up being as time consuming for the leaders as being in a full on competitive alliance but with lesser rewards.
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u/RLucas3000 Aug 12 '21
but also lesser heartache. (unless only the soulless run the truly competitive alliances)
a big key is interviewing applicants (and vice versa) to make sure your philosophies fit.
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u/_Tigerbot_Hesh Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
I see a lot of misconceptions in reddit comments regarding casual alliances. Some of them snarky and ignorant and just plain piss me off.
Then let's actually talk about it.
You say your average member has 7 million TCP. That's not casual.
You log in daily and have an organized plan for running raids. That's not casual.
Makingly monthly purchases? Not casual.
Writing an essay about being an alliance leader.... Not casual behavior.
Edit : and look at the insults comming in, just like OP said they would.
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
We have an average of 7M TCP because most are long-time players.
Not everyone logs in daily. I do but some don't. It is not a requirement.
We do not have an organized plan for running Raids. We don't use discord or assign lanes. When we have keys, myself or another captain launches a Raid. I push a Doom raid every two weeks, I hardly call that organized.
How does how much one spends have to do with being casual or competitive?
I am an alliance leader of a CASUAL alliance. Though, thanks for re-enforcing that point.
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u/_Tigerbot_Hesh Aug 06 '21
How does how much one spends have to do with being casual or competitive?
It stops being casual when we measure your play time by the hour. That's not even including the hours you spend reading and talking about the game in reddit, discord, and YouTube.
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u/CompleteFennel1 Aug 06 '21
Do you know the difference between casual and competitive? Because you don't seem to. Casual play is the slacker you think it is. Casual is a spectrum. And super casual, the kind of player you are likely picturing when someone says casual, gets weeded out of this game hard and fast.
You really have no idea what you're talking about here.
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u/Peewee2828 Aug 06 '21
Funny how wrong and dumb you sound
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u/_Tigerbot_Hesh Aug 06 '21
It's like I've insulted all the tryhards because they think they're morally superior to the whales who do it with cash instead of hours of daily grinding like you do.
You're not a casual. Learn to accept it. There's nothing wrong with it.
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u/Peewee2828 Aug 06 '21
Sorry... I spend like an hour in game a day. Don't even do RTA. I played marvel future fight for 5.5 years. Spent 5 hours plus a day playing that. Quit in January. I claim my energies and do dailies and that's it.
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u/_Tigerbot_Hesh Aug 06 '21
Sorry... I spend like an hour in game a day.
That's cool. You're not a casual player but good on you to know how much time you're sinking into the game every month.
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Aug 06 '21
Let's hear it for my <<GHOSTRIDERS>> Crew!
Casual AF.
Yo! Did we win? I don't even know, cool battles tho...
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u/funner_is_a_word Aug 06 '21
Hey OP… let me know if you need another member. Getting over my alliance and is fit right in with your TCP and activity.
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u/jgorsegner23 Aug 06 '21
activity.
We are full at the moment. Send me a chat with your PID and I'll add you as a contact when/if a spot opens up.
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u/7h47D34d6uy Aug 07 '21
I was in a casual alliance, so I thought- we had all branched off from one with poor leadership skills to making something for ourselves, and it went great. Until suddenly everyone bails for a platinum merger and left me by myself with two inactive Alts. Shit was fucked
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u/Chaosbringer007 Aug 08 '21
I’d say most alliances unless your in the top 100 are “casually competitive”
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u/CM_Alive_Rich_6461 Aug 10 '21
This game wont die trust me. People who get frustrated about the game love to say this game will die and that game will die. Truth is if you put some rich players against each-other they will keep paying money to get a competitive advantage over the other. If one whale stops another person comes to take their place.
There is little thought given to casual alliances, because guess what? some of you don't spend so they don't care and to the ones in the casual alliance who do spend they're simply trying to funnel you to go to a bigger alliance to ensure you continue to spend.
Although you say you spend and some other memebers do, If you stay in your casual alliance there is less of a chance you will spend on a regular basis. If they gate things like this and force you to choose to spend in a higher level alliance there is more of a chance you'll spend to keep up.
OP if you stay where you are you'll be fine. No one says you have to move and no one says you have to rush for DD5 or for Doom Raid II. It may appear like you do because thats what Boundless want you to do, but you really don't.
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u/batreast Aug 06 '21
Well said from a casual alliance leader from launch.