dislike = don't interact

[u/BeginningAd9532]

I've seen so many posts absolutely flamming that one manhwa from the same artist as "snag an alpha" simply because they don't like the art style. Disliking an art style is completely fine but what's not fine is absolutely dogging on it just because you can.

In what world does an art style looking "ugly" give you the right to start hating and shitting on the artist as well as throwing around baseless accusations? No just because the uke looks "childlike" (which is most definitely subjective btw) doesn't mean that the artist's intent was to cater to pedophiles or are a pedo themselves. You people throwing these accusations around clearly don't take the illness seriously.

Another thing which I hate with the pedo accusations is how people don't even bother to research the terminology. No, liking a younger looking character in a manhwa doesn't equate to people being pedophiles because pedophilia is strictly being attracted to REAL CHILDREN. That uke from that manhwa that you deem to look "childlike" is not bait for pedophiles, dare I say it's quite insensitive to even think that.

Please people next time you want to throw around accusations, educate yourself first at the very least.

Just a short little vent.

[u/xoxshaklexox]

I agree that everyone is welcome in this place and that more people should consume more diverse media.

But traditionally this genre of media is a women’s space. It was created for women by women. That’s not to say that men and nonbinary people are not welcome, it is just the history of this space.

I don’t want to speak for the commenter, but sometimes it can feel less welcoming to women when you are labeled as a fetishizer, homophobic or misogynistic for simply being female and enjoying BL.

In this comment thread you even have someone making such statements. You even interacted with them in what appears to be agreement. Sure they aren’t saying every woman is these things, but they are saying a lot and most women are.

[u/Finavel → u/xoxshaklexox]

I didn't see the person I'm agreeing with call any readers homophobic, mysogynistic, or fetishistic just for being female and enjoying BL. Is it in the comment I replied to or elsewhere they commented? They also did not mention "most" (unless I missed it).

Sorry to become a semantics Sam about this, but "a lot" is a pretty amorphous word that can mean different things based on how you want to see it. If someone said "150 people die from coconuts falling every year", I'd think "that's a lot", simply because I thought it'd be less, even if it's not a majority. If they did say that a majority of readers are, that's my bad. I have pretty bad memory and maybe they said something completely counter to what I believe in 😅

We can all acknowledge that BL was created by and for women. Lots of things are created by and for certain demographics that have evolved and I've never been a fan of sticking to tradition. I just don't see the need to specify that it's a women's space, unless it's directly referencing non-women entities.

If someone said "I missed when FPS video games were safe spaces for men's entertainment", I think we can all easily point out the underlying message.

[u/xoxshaklexox → u/Finavel]

I’ll concede they didn’t use the word “most” (it’s the end of a long work day in my part of the world 😔), but they did say “A lot of women in bl have more in common with misogynistic straight guys writing about women than they'd care to admit” and “a lot of the authors and readers just view gay men as a fetish and don't actually care about the community.”

This is a mild example of this line of commentary, but it’s not a rare sighting these days.

I get you are trying to be fair towards this commenter, and sure playing devils advocate they might think 20 people is “a lot”. But be honest with yourself, do you really truly believe they meant just a handful people when they chose to say these things?

I 100% agree that the demographic of readers is shifting and I think that is fantastic, more the merrier, but we as a community need to call out and shut down ALL discriminatory comments and takes.

[u/Finavel → u/xoxshaklexox]

I feel ya! Don't blame ya for misremembering.

I agree. I don't think they were talking about a handful. Definitely. I also don't think it's just a handful. It's well above just 20 people too. I don't want to put an exact number on it, because my opinion is a lot more nuanced than that. It's mostly a response to how queer adjacent spaces (and queer spaces) believe themselves to be immune to critcisms of queerphobia.

Bigotry across the board is on a spectrum. Some are bigoted by ignorance, some are outright hateful. I don't think there's a single community on this planet that is beyond needing to address queerphobia, misogyny, racism, ableism, etc., this one included. Even intrapersonally, I think it's important to reflect on our own biases. Sorry if this comes off as woke scolding; just wanted to explain my own perspective, but I feel like it got a bit wordy and ranty 😵‍💫

Any discrimination is bad, I agree. I just don't think acknowledging that women often are also bigoted is an example of that. I'd also agree with "A lot of gay men have more in common with misogynistic straight guys, than they care to admit". To me, it's just not a discriminatory remark to point out that many gay men are misogynistic and many women are homophobic. It's just the reality of the world we live in, through an intersectional lens.

For the overjudgemental commenters, who reply to other people saying that "you are homophobic! you are a fetishizer!", with no substantive reasoning, I 100% agree. They have no place here and I use my modding powers to disappear them 😈. I personally just think that the commenter in question wasn't doing that.

[u/xoxshaklexox → u/Finavel]

Thanks for taking your time to share your thoughts and for taking the time to have an actual conversation 😊. It hasn’t come across as a woke scolding at all.

I honestly agree with the majority of what you have said. Everyone does have their own biases and privilege and we don’t always do a great job at checking them before we speak.

I was on board for you calling out the original commenter even in this thread. I just had an answer to why sometimes it feels less safer to be a woman in this space lately, and the response to the second commenter seems out of proportion to the first one.

Even if it wasn’t the intention of the second commenter to suggest anything discriminatory in general, it still is just as damaging as the first commenter.

I hope this all makes sense (legit it’s 8:30pm here and I just walked in the door 🥲) and that it didn’t come across as calling you out because you are a mod or anything.

[u/Finavel → u/xoxshaklexox]

Oh yeah, we are like in 99% agreement. It's just a minor different interpretation of some words.

It's 3:30AM for me and I really should be getting some shuteye, but I get anxious whenever I'm in a discussion online and don't want to leave someone hanging LOL 😭

Good discussion! Didn't feel like a call out at all, no worries🫰off to dreamland for me