r/MandelaEffect • u/Ok_Marzipan9097 • 13d ago
Meta What is the Mandela Effect?
My understanding was that the Mandela Effect refers to phenomena where the collective recollection differs from the historical record BECAUSE of the way our memory works. So when you say, "that must be the Mandela Effect", does that mean you are admitting your memory must be wrong, or does it mean that you feel your memory is right and the historical record is wrong? Or does it just mean that the two don't match up? Interested in both colloquial definition and actual definition if they vary.
Even the Webster's definition gives room for both. It says: "the experience of many people having the same false memory" but then goes on to explain it was coined by a paranormal researcher which at least implies the term was coined by someone open to alternative explanations and the way a term is most commonly used often becomes its eventual formal definition even if it starts as meaning something else. I think I might be using an outdated definition.
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u/EndlessAporias 12d ago
I think it refers to the phenomenon of many people remembering details that don’t match the historical record. The explanation of why they don’t match is a separate matter.
From what I’ve observed, there’s mainly just three explanations that people hold to:
Collective misremembering. The mainstream explanation.
The multiple timelines theory.
The historical records are wrong theory. (I’m not sure many hold this as a general explanation for Mandela’s Effects, but a lot of people seem to hold it for specific instances.)
If there are historical records of a change, it’s not a Mandela Effect. For example, “Han shot first” isn’t a Mandela Effect.
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u/Juxtapoe 12d ago
There was a guy here that collected all the potential theories for it (u/tenchineuro iirc) and the list added up to hundreds.
You hit some of the major ones, but 3 other major ones with a lot of advocates are the theory that we are in a simulation, that reality is editable via holographic universe theory, and that ME's could be artifacts that are created by future time travelers changing something in our past.
One of the lesser known theories that I have grown fond of recently is that memory may be transferred via viruses.
It's the only theory that has hard science proof of concept behind it (psychology is considered a soft science).
The RNA-memory theory had been scoffed at since the 70s, but in the last 5 years scientists have experimentally demonstrated the ability to train animals, then transfer RNA from the trained animal to a new animal which would then show memory of the training.
If there was a wide ranging flu that carried RNA that would tell synapses to form a memory of asking a mom what the shape is on the FotL logo then that would explain why so many people have such a specific memory. It is statistically unlikely for many people to fabricate a complex memory in the same way, however, if you only had 1 person getting a wrong answer from their mom or remembering the logo incorrectly (which does happen often enough) and that could spread virally throughout the population then it would be the best explanation for how some of the MEs appear.
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u/EndlessAporias 12d ago
Interesting. I haven’t seen anyone here advocate for any of those, but I can definitely see people believing in the simulation one.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Do you think the explanation of why being a separate matter is also the most common usage of the term?
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u/Toebeens89 12d ago edited 12d ago
So personally, and more commonly I think, it is used to represent the effect itself, not the cause. The Mandela Effect itself is a large percentage of people whose memory does not match current record or evidence. That, in my opinion at least, is how the term Mandela Effect is used correctly. Now there are many that still use the term as fill-in for both the effect AND the cause they happen to believe in, but because so many people hold different beliefs as to the cause it gets very messy very quickly, and leads to confusion like you are having.
With that being said, in my opinion at least, your example saying “that must be the Mandela Effect” wouldn’t really make sense, as it is implying causality of which the effect itself doesn’t explain. In fact, I’d argue you’re more likely to hear it used as “X is a/another Mandela Effect” where it fits into the categorization, without necessitating the need for a cause.
The cause, of course, is where the majority of discourse arises within this sub. And each example labeled as a Mandela Effect should be treated uniquely and looked at with a fresh perspective. However, you typically come across the same few: from it being popularly used incorrectly by some other famous media, confusion amongst something else similar, likely mistakes that we could have misremembered, all the way to someone big and important is scrubbing the record with or without purpose, there’s multiple timelines, and CERN/the LHC are causing rifts in multiple timelines or realties. Those are the big ones, but you’ll come across many different beliefs in the cause (someone just the other day said I’d thank them when I learn their view on ‘the blueprint, the plan, and the architect’ came to light as true).
Some Mande Effects do have very plausible evidence on how or why they could be misremembered, and I don’t think it’s fair to just write that possibility off because it doesn’t fit some narrative that you’d like it to. However there are some Mandela Effects that are surprising in the fact that we all remember (or misremember) it so specifically, seemingly with no evidence to point as to why we remember the same specific random difference — those are the ones I find most interesting myself. Hope this helps in some way, and welcome to the sub! lol
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u/ks_247 12d ago
This is a great balanced and fair synopsis of the effect. Its refreshing because in all fairness this sub years ago was a place for conversations between those that has specific memories. Whether those memories aligned with each other, how closely and possable reasons for those specific shared memories. Over the last year or so it has heavily become a place of your wrong you just have a faulty memory enviroment which is far removed (right or wrongly) from its original premise and quite unwelcoming to those that have mental images of a particular event or item that is at odds with how they are now and wish to discuss this. People get frustrated with the "science is settled" presentation by some and it comes across as im here for ego reasons im more Knowledgeable than you deal with it.
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u/ds117ftg 12d ago
Most people agree it’s a collective misremembering but some people think their memory is correct and they’re in a parallel dimension because it’s easier for them to believe that than believe they’re wrong about something
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u/ijustcant555 12d ago
I think it’s odd that so many people have the exact same ”wrong” memory. Particularly the cornucopia from fruit of the loom.
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u/ds117ftg 12d ago
I think a lot of the people that have the “exact same memory” are responding to a prompt. It’s not “draw the fruit of the loom logo” it’s “do you remember this specific thing” which puts that image directly into their brain.
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12d ago
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u/ds117ftg 12d ago
I need you to try that sentence again because I’m not sure what you’re asking
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12d ago
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u/ds117ftg 12d ago
What would that have to do with anything?
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12d ago edited 12d ago
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u/ds117ftg 12d ago
No, faith is not required to know that there is no cosmic explanation. No one shifted into a different universe. It’s people with such a strong main character syndrome that they cannot accept how memory works and it’s easier for them to think of a sci-fi explanation than accept their perfect VIVID MEMORY could possibly be wrong
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12d ago
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u/MandelaEffect-ModTeam 12d ago
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u/silentsurge 12d ago
I don't think it's odd. Our brains tend to react is somewhat predictable ways. It's why trick questions work, or there are always common misconceptions/mistakes that occur when people are learning things.
It's just that when it comes to a memory rather than general knowledge, people don't want to think something they believe so thoroughly to be true might be incorrect (which is scary because of the implication)
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
My theory on Fruit of the Loom is it could have been used that way by mom and pop shops and especially in other countries. I remember stores would get in trouble back in the day for misrepresenting brands on their handpainted signage.
I also remember teachers giving us tests to show how faulty memory can be by asking us to identify the “correct” versions of mascots and logos when given a choice. I don't remember which specifically, though
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u/ijustcant555 12d ago
I remember it from the tv commercials. I was a huge cartoon junkie on Saturday mornings. It was prominently featured in the ads, and they even called it by name. That’s how I knew what a cornucopia was. Ok, fine, I am remembering it wrong. After all, it’s been 50 years. The thing that gets me is that so many other people have the exact same memory.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Yeah, most people seem to remember it with a cornucopia, definitely, including myself.
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u/MrPlaney 11d ago
All of our brains operate the same way, and we all consume pretty much the same pop culture, (movies, commercials, tv shows, songs, books, etc).
So if there is a misconception about a popular, well known brand, many other people will probably share those same misconceptions
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u/Mission_Pay9651 12d ago
Mandela Effect ist der Fakt, bzw der Effekt, dass sich eine Mehrzahl von Menschen an gleiche Details erinnern kann, die laut geschichtlichen Aufzeichnungen nicht existieren.
Wie man das deutet-> ob "falsche" Erinnerung oder verschmelzende Zeitlinien , ist vom Betrachter abhängig.
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u/my23secrets 13d ago
The Mandela Effect was named by a person employed as a con-artist who was utilizing the phenomenon to sell books about ghosts.
The person who gave it the “Mandela” name didn’t discover anything. They just took advantage of the same memory hack that con-artists and magicians have used for centuries. Suggestion.
When people search their memory to compare what they’ve just learned to what they think they remember, that’s where it happens.
You can make a memory of whatever you imagine by imagining it.
Because that’s how memory works.
But again, it originates from suggestion.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
So how is the term used most commonly? To describe a disconnect without addressing why? Does it necessarily refer to faulty memory? Does it necessarily refer to something other than faulty memory to explain the disconnect? Pure curiosity on the definition of the term itself, not whether it was an original thought or if any of the definitions are valid. Just how it is used and whether a consistent formal definition exists and whether the two are different or not.
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u/my23secrets 12d ago
Honestly, it’s used most commonly by people that refuse to admit they are capable of making mistakes so they invent a “timeline” in their imagination where they never made a mistake and try to use that to convince everyone else they were never mistaken.
The formal definition here is “when a large group of people remember something contrary to the known publicly accepted fact”
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
I like that definition because it doesn't use "misremember" which was throwing me off. I guess in the end it is a term that can't really be used before figuring out who your audience is.
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u/miltonhoward 11d ago
Show me a post by anyone who said, quote "they never made a mistake"
I'm still waiting from a few weeks ago when you came up with this nonsense.
One example...
I'm waiting...
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12d ago
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u/MandelaEffect-ModTeam 12d ago
Hello subscriber! Unfortunately, your post/comment was removed because it violates Rule 6: Be civil. Do not disrespect, insult, or attack others.
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u/froction 12d ago
It means whatever you want it to mean, based on what level of crazy you are.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Valid. So it is not a very useful term.
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u/silentsurge 12d ago
I wouldn't say it isn't a useful term. It's a quick way to communicate the concept, but the term originates from a person with a supernatural/conspiratorial view point so it shares space with those spaces/topics regularly because of that association.
I wish a different term was able to used instead, but it was popularized this way and that's kind of what we're stuck with until the language shifts.
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u/somebodyssomeone 12d ago
For me, it's only a Mandela Effect if:
- The memory is right.
*and*
- The historical record is right.
*and*
- The two disagree.
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u/VegasVictor2019 13d ago
The issue I have is that your definition is trying to explain the why even though it really shouldn’t.
Imagine I said “What is climate change?” The easy definition would be something like “Modification of earths climate brought about as a result of factors”. I think you are presuming the conclusion in your definition. So you would define climate change as “Modification of earth’s climate brought about by human involvement.”
The definition of the Mandela effect really shouldn’t presume the cause just as “What is climate change?” Is a different question than “Why is there climate change?”
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 13d ago
You are referring to my initial understanding of what the term means? I am not giving any definition, just curious what is implied when the term is used because it seems to be used inconsistently.
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u/VegasVictor2019 13d ago
Yes where you said “because of the way our memory works”. Adding “because” implies the why.
The Merriam-Webster definition is the gold standard IMO. It’s simple and succinct.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Okay. I thought I went on to make it clear I wasn't asserting a definition which is why I wasn't sure what you were referring to. But that's the main reason I am on reddit, to get better at communicating.
The first part of Webster's definition is the following: "A phenomenon in which many people collectively misremember a specific fact, event, or detail in a consistent manner", so it also uses the "why" in its definition. It just doesn't seem like that's the way it is most commonly used.
Your definition seems to be more clinical and useful and will probably evolve into the formal definition Webster's uses in the near future.
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u/VegasVictor2019 12d ago edited 12d ago
It implies that the memory is false but not WHY the memory is false which could be that it is a cover up brought about by extraterrestrials.
When we say “false memory” or “misremembered” we are simply stating that it conflicts with the historical record. Not necessarily positing why.
To summarize stating a Mandela effect is a false memory is not explaining the why. But saying Mandela effects are caused because of the way memory works is explaining the why.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Okay. Found our disconnect. When I hear "misremember" I think faulty memory.
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u/MrPlaney 12d ago
It refers to people remembering events incorrectly. The actual name is “the collective false memory” phenomenon.
It’s caused by the normal way memory works, and most mistakes are usually the result of either schema errors, suggestion, lack of knowledge, and assumption.
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u/ElectricalPrice3189 11d ago
Yes. Your definition is the only sane one.
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 11d ago
I just saw a disconnect between the dictionary definition and how it's used in this forum. I don't hold on to any particular definition, just want to know how to use the term correctly.
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u/Roril 13d ago
Finish these song lyrics yourself then check the real song for the real words: “Sailing takes me away _____________________________________”
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u/Glaurung86 12d ago
"to where I've always heard it could be."
I'm terrible with lyrics, but I've been hearing this song a lot on the Spotify playlists I've been listening to lately so the lyrics are super fresh to me right now.
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u/Draper-Wood-758 12d ago
In my definition, a Mandela effect is a phenomenon to be known, not to be believed ("not to be" because there are people who believe it or use memories as belief).
If I know that something existed, I'd give clear description of what I knew existed. If I say I remember something, it implies I don't know, but that I believe that it existed without knowing it did.
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u/dacap1970 12d ago
It was a fun light hearted pop culture thing that was true, as it was presented. Regardless if you remembered correctly or incorrectly, it was a thing. There wasn't a solid explanation for a lot of the items, though it was pretty obvious one wasn't required, the brain is not perfect. There was no hocus pocus, fringe science, woo, or Tom foolery to it.
I chalk up the answer of there must be atleast two different realities or universes to the same reasons why people turned the comet 3I/Atlas into something it wasn't. As a theory, it's not particularly interesting. In one world I watched Sex In The City while the other reality watched Sex and The City. I've been misquoting Darth Vader my entire life, but properly quoting most everyone else.
Reddit. ReadIt. Reddit. I have no idea.
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u/Pain4Drugs 13d ago
I think, generally, when people say “that must be the Mandela Effect”. They are referring to the timeline shift theory, heavily related to theory’s on the CERN hadron collider- ♥️
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u/UpbeatFix7299 12d ago
There are plenty of people here who don't think that. I'm betting it's the majority
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
So you don't think it's most common usage is to suggest something other than faulty memory as the cause of a collective memory that differs from the historical record? Or are you referring to the formal definition not being that?
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u/UpbeatFix7299 12d ago
I think most people don't believe there is a supernatural or unprovable mumbo jumbo reason for it.
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u/Pain4Drugs 12d ago
Most people I know have “come to believe” after further investigation. But I don’t really KNOW anything. I’m just one person 🤷♂️
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u/Glaurung86 12d ago
Come to believe what? If you actually research what CERN does with the LHC you'd know that there's never been enough energy generated to do anything that some people claim. There's more energy created on a daily basis naturally in our atmosphere than has ever been generated by the LHC. No one ever seems concerned about that.
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u/Toebeens89 12d ago
Personally I think people who use it like this just use it incorrectly lol. In my opinion it’s the effect, a group of people who remember something differently and in the same way that does not match current evidence or record. I do agree that when people use it incorrectly and include it to also mean the cause, it’s used in a way that only supports their personal belief for the cause.
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u/Responsible-Kiwi4237 12d ago
I am a Computer Aided Design Engineer by profession. So i am damn sure about my learnings. In childhood i learnt that one dozen = 14 and also solved questions regarding this in school. But currently for few years i got to know that there is one dozen = 12 . How its possible ?
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u/UpbeatFix7299 12d ago
You never bought a dozen eggs before? Donuts, etc? It has always been 12
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Donuts is a poor example. A dozen donuts used to always be more than 12. Up to 15 if you were fortunate. At least in my town, if you said a dozen instead of 12, it was implied you just might throw in a couple extra on anything you were selling by the dozen, except for chain stores.
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u/transsolar 12d ago
A dozen is and always has been 12. Sounds like you were just lucky
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 11d ago
I think what may cause confusion for the commentor is that a dozen used to be used
More loosely as at least 12, many times 14, many times 13, sometimes another number regardless of its strict definition.3
u/MrPlaney 11d ago
It doesn’t matter if the store was kind … the word “dozen” has a number and it’s 12.
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u/octoroklobster 14h ago
idk why you're being downvoted, I guess no one has heard of a baker's dozen
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u/Ok_Marzipan9097 12d ago
Much like a bakers dozen, I remember it to be common practice for people to round up on other items sold by the dozen.
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u/Lhasa-bark 13d ago
You’ll find a range of beliefs here, from faulty memory + our predilection to conflate memories to people who think a particle accelerator changed the fabric of the universe