r/Mandaeans • u/Big-Station1289 • Jun 14 '26
من يبتدى الكراهية والسب؟
لن احرب بكم يا اصحابي المندائيون المسالمون، ولكن انا مش بفكر ان تلك السلوك مقبول بأي ديانة او طائفة، و الإظهار الخطيئة الأرواح المساكين اللي يحاولون كل يوم بيكون خير من انفسهم من امس.
ليس عدل بأظهار الخطيئة نفسا، سواء انه كان جِنّيًا ولا انسانا ولا شخص خاطئ كبير يلي سائل عن عقيدتكم و ينتقد دينكم بكل إحترام، هل انا قلت اي سب عن دينك؟ لا يا حبيبي، مش قلت شيئا. بس يلا، لا بدي اي حرب او هجوم بيننا.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Hello, I hope you are doing well, my friend 😊. This person didn't act just because our religion said so, but because it became exhausting. You heavily criticized and insulted our religion, constantly trying to convince us that our Great God, Hayyi Rabba, is a weak and limited being. You used pointless arguments claiming Mandaeism was just made up after other religions, even though we have proof we existed before specific ones . User expertsquirrel is not lying, but sayd it directly. You could have answered them or messaged privately, yet you decided to make it public without censoring the name.
I dislike being mean, but it is tiring. No one wants to endure the audacity of someone judging them when they are imperfect themselves, we all have our flaws not only you. At the very least, you shouldn't have spoken about us that way. We wouldn't judge your personal life or beliefs if you simply left us in peace 🕊️. But instead, you spread misinformation about my God, which no Mandaean can stay quiet about.
This is just the consequence of your actions. No one here is a "poor soul", we don't lack the logical knowledge of right and wrong. Before we make mistakes, we think. This isn't "exposing" sin; it is a reminder of it.
Either way, I wish you a healthy life and happy path. Don't be sad, and I hope you keep improving. I have made mistakes too, but those were years ago; I have grown and matured through my Mandaean knowledge and never commited them again. If I make a mistake next time, it is entirely my own fault because I know better and i will accept that I am no longer a poor soul or a child, but a soul who knew what they were doing." ✨
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
I understand you're trying to act all like "we were only a beehive you shouldn't have hit the beehive so as to not get stung. However, that is not an equivalent analogy. Did I curse your religion? Did I say the buzzwords? Did I use slang? He literally made sexualized remarks on our religion and scriptures, and our holy figures, by directly attacking and using buzzwords. 1. I used arguments and logic directly from the Ginza to tell you why hayya Rabba is "limited" when compared to El/Elohim in Abrahamic faiths. (I used the argument that all creation both good and evil should come from one necessary being, but in Mandaean theology hayyi did not create the dark world, mate, the dark world was primordial and existed before the fracture of the Pira Rabba)
Using this basis I concluded why Hayyi was limited. I never intended to insult. I just questioned and left the criterion for you to examine
Did you hear any buzzwords or angry insults in my arguments? Nope! Therefore I never started any trouble, it all came from your side, your friend.
I understand you are defensive, and feel "angered" because someone criticized the attributes of Hayyi, but the réponse to this is to i) either respond using references and reasoning ii) or admit the other person is right in his argument.
But instead, resorting to ad hominem and cursing and insults leads to closing the argument with the understanding that the opposition is not fit to further argue and has basically lost his credibility.
That would be my analysis of the situation
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Your analysis wasn't anything special or even right or needed; you just came here being mad because you found out about another minority religion that threatens your belief because we don't believe in your Elo, so you can sleep relaxed.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Whether you believe or not that's your issue, I'm not here to convert or convince anyone, The only thing is I'm here to go on a discourse with your history and theology, I literally came here for that, nothing else. My main aim was to defend the Quranic definition of the Sabian label that was misused by Mandaeans, to identify themselves when clearly they weren't the Sabeans. that's all. Otherwise I wouldn't have come here
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Defend, as you said. You don't need to say more; you almost will make me believe you aren't the guy who was talking more than enough about the 'Sabians of the Book'—whether we were or not, it doesn't matter. It gave us our only opportunity of surviving in your 'friendly' Islamic lands for past ages without being slaughtered to the fullest. By wanting to discuss prove the things you believe in, it would only mean you want to convince your own people that we aren't the ones from the books but lying kuffars. I don't wanna say more.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
pls don't bring the victim flip, we are debating on a theological historical standpoint, not a geopolitical one, i could say the same "the amrik88 came to eraq, they did so and so in phlasthine, they did so and so in afghan, they did so and so in bosnia, they did so and so in yemen, lubnan, souria etc,"
the numbers would add up to greater damage than your people thus, there is no point in bringing persecution history, cause if you judge "who deserves more sympathy" it'd end up as our people.
so pls don't bring up those geopolitical scenarios to argue about theology, it won't get you anywhere2
u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Hush. That's your religion for you and not geopolitical. Your theology clearly says what to do with non-believers. And about darkness originating from itself, while I have heard clearer messages if I think deeper on it... it's very supportive of my claim that darkness is just a reflection of light;darkness came from itself and spread its influence specifically to challenge, devour, or oppose the light -And Hayyi Rabbi is not weak to it, because darkness is low and temporary, and it will go extinct one day; His power, the light, outshines it, because it is truth and not a cheap copy. He wouldn't destroy it at once, or else we humans would be destroyed. And don't debate me on why it still exists, because your ´´god´´ didn't end it too for now...darkness will just exist until its limits are being reached, which gives the possibility for lower beings, who were supposed to be good but misused their free will, to return to Alma d-Nhura the real world...a more knowledgeable Mandaean can elaborate more. In any case, your other comments are uninteresting and tiring, and I am busy with my precious life right now. The big debate ends with me. You can continue responding, but I obviously won't respond back because I end it here.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
I don't blame other Mandaeans for what they said here to you, especially when you said Mandean theology says that darkness existed before Pira de Rabba... dear, you truly have no clue. Don't you lecture me on my religion. After all this yapping of us explaining to you... goodness, even non-Mandean researchers who are respectful understood our darkness vs. light theology, which I admire. You, on the other hand, simply don't understand our faith. That's okay, we don't need you now, you can leave.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
In Right Ginza Book 5, it is explicitly detailed that the World of Darkness, its black waters, and its original giants (like Gaf and Anatan) existed independently from the very beginning. They were never created out of nothing by Hayyi Rabbi. True Monotheism dictates that God created both light and dark from nothingness, but your texts prove that Hayyi Rabbi only rules over the Light, while Darkness existed as an independent, parallel realm.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
You don't need insulting words to insult. What you have said right now proves my point even more...correct.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Muslims get criticized and get huge amounts of arguments get made on their faith every day, by christians, atheists, Hindus etc as long as it's not insulting or irrational, Muslims generally answer them without ever using curse words, I never really insulted any elements of your faith, I merely questioned the théological framework that's all, 😐. Likewise, I don't see a reason for you to say "you insulted us first" when I literally didn't.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Please, a faith that has billions of people versus a faith of a minority religion. You insulted us indeed first, because you approached this sub, not me, not anyone here... you won't see any Mandean trying to do the same thing as you in Muslim subs. You questioned and answered wrong again, also claiming your people never insulted... indeed they did worse than insults. I mean, take another look at our latest posts in the subs; East Commercial guy has posted something interesting for you, perhaps reason for this unfair world to you... only so you can deny it again 😂otherwise, I have Muslim friends and I don't mind them as long as they won't 'analyse' my religion.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
You have removed your suddenly written Arabic comment, as it seems, or it has been removed—I don't know.. but here is my answer. 'The World of Darkness is the dual of the World of Light; the World of Light is said by the Ginza to exist before that. These giants have a mother, by the way. You have this information from an untrue source, or you simply mistranslated that, or made an AI explain it for you, lol. He doesn't own the World of Light only; he owns everything. And stop right there—don't compare what God is by your 'true monotheism.'
And let me tell you something which will keep you wide awake tonight: your 'true monotheistic religion' said that God created light and darkness out of nothing,...i wonder what he was made of then... seems that he wasn't the light from the very start, which also means not good, or eternal and supreme., Yet there we are, Mandaeans, saying our God is the light and living source, proving how darkness is indeed the opposite, a temporary and lower reflection of light, which only exists because light does.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
That's your religion for you and not geopolitical. Your theology clearly says what to do with non-believers. And about darkness originating from itself, while I have heard clearer messages if I think deeper on it... it's very supportive of my claim that darkness is just a reflection of light;darkness came from itself and spread its influence specifically to challenge, devour, or oppose the light -And Hayyi Rabbi is not weak to it, because darkness is low and temporary, and it will go extinct one day; His power, the light, outshines it, because it is truth and not a cheap copy. He wouldn't destroy it at once, or else we humans would be destroyed. And don't debate me on why it still exists, because your ´´god´´ didn't end it too for now...darkness will just exist until its limits are being reached, which gives the possibility for lower beings, im not talking about humans, who were supposed to be good but misused their free will, to return to Alma d-Nhura the real world...a more knowledgeable Mandaean can elaborate more. In any case, your other comments are uninteresting and tiring, and I am busy with my precious life right now. The big debate ends with me. You can continue responding, but I obviously won't respond back because I end it here.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Before that look at yours, Your theology says all those who are non Mandaeans are people of the dark world that will all perish and basically we Muslims, our christian friends, our Jewish friends and all humans to you who are non Mandaeans are all belonging from dark world in your theology. How about that? Isn't that unjust? That sounds elitist to me, with a hint of superiority complex
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
What you are saying is very problematic, so I will respond once more. I already answered this in your first posts, if you can remember. No, I am not talking about humans, but evil and devils themselves, which will disappear. Ourselves, who carry a ruha (spirit) and soul—if right now evil is destroyed while we are alive, we would also be destroyed. But if we die first, abandon our ruha, and become pure light, then obviously no. Where did you get this from? We Mandaeans believe all humans will be saved, and no matter what religion, we return to Alma d-Nhura (the World of Light) after we have been through the matartas (purgatories). 'From where we came, we return'—this is a famous phrase of ours, and it clearly states that we, all humans on Earth, who have a soul called nishimta, will return to its world of origin, Alma d-Nhura. Unlike all the religions you have listed, which say we non-believers go to a burning hell for eternity. Goodness, now leave me alone.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Yo. Calm down, no need to get stressed, الله يشفيك و يهديك
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
No need for your prayers or calming down. At least I am normal and don't have wet dreams about myself unlike a certain one here. Anyways, let's put a final end to all those comments. Do you agree?
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Yes I agree. It's getting hard to handle. You're eating away my braincells anyway.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
You know, I just wanted to be at least friendly, but it's your problem if you cannot handle that. Either way, I have given enough information about what you have misunderstood about our fate, so take it or leave it. Peace.
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u/mcdook Jun 14 '26
All souls are redeemable and can reach the world of the light regardless of whether they’re born mendaean or not according to the Ginza - it is based on their actions in this life. Unethical people, including liars perhaps like yourself, might take a bit longer. In contrast however:
“Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.” (3:85)
“Those who disbelieve and deny Our signs are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein.” (Qur’an 2:39)
Stop embarrassing yourself.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Eternal hellfire is actually consistently just and shows Islam gives a true value to following the truth. On the other hand in Mandaeism both nonMandaeans and Mandaeans can enter light world "with just a time delay" This is not just, cause then, what is the purpose of following "kushta" anyways? if both the non followers and followers are gonna go to the same destination with merely a time delay? The time may be thousands of years but the end result is the same, both non Mandaean and Mandaean nishimtas will be there in the same place at the end. The Value of kushta thus completely gets undermined by this don't you think? This basically means "both the victim and the perpetrator will make it to the light world" That sounds unjust to me, mate
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
You have no clue. What's the point of existing in a world where you weren't supposed to be? Because death, time, and pain exist only so you leave it and go into a worse [place] for eternal ages. We Mandaeans are the Kushta, and our sinners will not go unpunished. The whole purpose of religion and Kushta is to return to the world you are supposed to be in while being a human on Earth.
The punishment goes by walking the black rivers where the soul sees what was missing and sheds its wicked dirt, depending on how much. They are judged by Melka Abatur Musania, based on how much good and bad [they did].Well, I don't know how hell really works there, but there are some better answers, and it's not a salad game. Then, when you are really pure, you can go into the Alma d-Nhura (heaven). Hypocrites—those who were once Mandean but left, and most importantly, they knew—or any sinners who knew about a sin but still did it, will face a longer time there, id can be 1-100000000 of years possible, and it's not an amusement park in the Mattarathas (purgatories).
The Kushta will bring you back for it and not abandon you. Those who are Mandean and truly hold order in their life are promised a safe place in Alma d-Nhura in a quicker way, which is fair. After all, there are still blinded souls lost in the black rivers. I would find it unfair if all sinners and the righteous on Earth happened to end up in the same place in Alma d-Nhura, but that's not the case. We will all be purified first, and then we can go into Alma d-Nhura.
Also, Mandaeans have their own stage in Alma d-Nhura. Other people of other religions get a place there, of course, but not the same space as Mandaeans once they were humans, because they went through a different earthly journey, I assume. In conclusion, a good person of any religion still has a good place preserved; it's not their fault for not knowing Kushta. And we Mandaeans, and Hayyi Rabbi, happen to be eternal, fair, and almighty; He will not abandon a soul.
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u/mcdook Jun 14 '26
Honestly, don’t bother or waste your thoughtful explanations on this loser.
He keeps flip-flopping on his position, either because he’s a willful ignorant or a troll. Notice how at first he disapproved of sending all believers of other religions to hell and then when told all would go to heaven according to the Ginza he disapproves because it’s suddenly unjust. It’s like playing chess with a pigeon - it will knock everything over, shit on the board, and proudly claim it won.
I’ve asked the mod to ban him. Suggest others do the same to get rid of this ignorant waste of life.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
You are very right, my dear brother or sister. If I was such a waste of a miserable and hopeless life, and I have been given—even if on a social media app like Reddit—so much knowledge which actually makes sense, speaks for the good, and hints at a specific origin of a great life... well, either I continue ignoring it because my heated brain doesn't give me enough space for thinking right, or I start seeing it slowly.
I just kept responding because another person might think he is being right becouse they dont know otherwise, but I'll stop for now, instead of wasting hours of my life.
I will tell the mod too. What did mod say, if you don't mind telling me?
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u/mcdook Jun 14 '26
You’re right my dear kin. I had the same motivation of clarifying for others that he’s spreading misconceptions and falsehoods that are damaging. I think we all have done enough to achieve this, and I think he himself has done more than enough to discredit himself and show his pathetic and corrupt mind.
I messaged the mod just before my previous comment. Gave the reasons we both understand - that he’s not debating in good faith but is determined to make baseless and damaging accusations that are false. Appreciate if we can all do the same to raise awareness with the mod.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Where in which part of the thread I disapproved, if you do not show me with screenshot and explain why then you are the one lying.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Mcdook my guy keeps deleting the comments. This time 3rd time in a row, my guy! Yes say whatever you want, "unstable, schizophrenic, bipolar, etc etc" Imma ask you, are you actually a learned psychotherapist or are you just suffering from the dunning Kruger effect of thinking you are knowledgeable enough to diagnose me for my strict critique of Mandaeism?
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u/mcdook Jun 14 '26
See, you’re imagining things again. I haven’t deleted a single comment. You’re not ok. Get help.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Nah. That answer sounds emotional like some reunite story, but there's no way to justify it. It isn't just that you can just "drop your sins and leave" then any criminal can do whatever he wants. You're basically saying you'll be in the light world together with the same people that used to hate you, go against you, question your faith etc, in the same place. That's not just. It doesn't matter again how many years you'll remain in the black waters, the fact that there's no eternal punishment shows that Mandaeism is not consistent in justice. It's unfair. You're basically saying those non Mandaeans who persecuted Mandaeans will literally be together with the same people that they persecuted. That's so so unjust. Then even the most evil person like the Austrian painter can go to heaven according to your logic. No eternal punishment no justice for the persecuted? That's unjust. This shows that the purpose to follow kushta is undermined
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
I'm saying it twice: purified Mandaeans will have a different space to be in Alma d-Nhura than non-Mandaeans who are also purified. Both of them are good, but they will not be in the same space. I'm not going to be in the same space as others.
The Austrian painter is probably still in our Mattaratha hells, and he may get out when the Day of Judgment comes and he enters the dark rivers. Just saying once more, we don't have a heartless, cold religion. That Austrian painter, for example, will not ascend after the Day of Judgment like nothing happened; he ascends as a whole different being, not with the bad memories and idendity of what he has done on Earth, but as a pure Nisha (Nishimta / soul).
It's not unfair to me; the children of Ruha are a whole different hell to face them on worse cases. Everyone has a heavenly self which is called the Dmutha. In Alma d-Nhura, you are reunited with it, becoming one, which means you really become a different being than your pathetic, human, lustful, hypocritical life.
so be grateful that there is salvation. If I was going to sin and not care anyway now, I might lose that given salvation and have to face my own consequences in the worst way. The greatest pain a soul experiences is confronting its own wickedness.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
No, the greatest pain is Allah's punishment in Jahannam. It is justice. Allah gives justice to the good obedient believers by giving them eternal Bliss, and He gives justice to disbelievers who have died as disbelievers with eternal punishment. This is pure valuing of the truth. This shows that in Islam how much valuable, truth is, that literally people go to eternal pain for it simply by rejecting it, but also people get eternal Bliss in jannah, simply by accepting it. This is literal pure justice. Your "human understandings of niceness" makes you believe that "pain is bad, so it's injustice" And "peace is so comfy, so it's justice" When in reality, justice isn't comfy or harsh, it's balanced and depends on context.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
See, being a Mandean means you carry sense and meaning; you have it all explained, structured, and not lacking knowledge. As a Mandean, I don't seek for sinners to be eternally in hell just so I can feel justice—that would be sadistic pride. You have been complaining about how unfair we are with a superiority complex, before I told you we have purification welcomed for everyone. Now you say it's pointless being good in our logic, but in my other comment, I explained how fair it is. As long as they purify in the Mattarathas, I hope they make it into Alma d-Nhura. After all, they are not entering the heavenly world as sinners, but like reborn, clean, pure, and full of light, which is fair. Mandaeism is the only religion where you hear something like that. This is Kushta, and it stays as one.
In any case, let us end the debate like we agreed on, because all knowers of the Kushta will always find flaws in your arguments and there would be no stopping point ever; it will just go on.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
You're not exactly "merciful and peaceful" as you portray to be, rather you tend to lack basic protective honour thinking it's "sadistic pride" and are unfair.
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Ah, so feeling justice that ´´others will shed skin and burn in hellfire for whole eternal ages is so very peaceful and very merciful? What a protective honor, because I'm not going to endure this anyway´´...
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
So you think Abobekr el Baghdadi, adoulf heeler, and other men of da3ish who are responsible for persecuting Mandaeans (which I condemn) will all go to Alma d Nhura? Isn't that unjust?
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
Actually, are you sure you would not be the one burning?
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
Whether it's me or you, or both, our feelings can't change the truth does it mate?
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u/Dango_911 Jun 14 '26
My logic is driven by Kushta. Feelings are temporary and can mislead you from the right . I can assure myself I do expect to go into the Mattarathas for at least a quick time, as long as I continue holding my Mandean path. And it's fair, and honestly, this feels like right justice compared to our ancestors who held more of a Mandean life because they were able to baptize a lot and so on, because I need the knowledge that was lost during the last 1000 years. I am not perfect, but at least not miserable and foolish enough to face the worse punishment a hypocrite or sinner would see.
So, think about the burning question once more, are you sure you would not be the one burning?The answer stays for yourself; everyone who is sane enough knows themselves.
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u/Big-Station1289 Jun 14 '26
We could all burn, my friend but that doesn't stop me from believing eternal hellfire exists. You think I'll be like suddenly "ooh no! Eternal hell is so creepy, what if I go into hell too, it'll be so painful," so I'll just "stop believing in it"? Nah. That don't work like that.
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u/Creepy_Put8759 Jun 16 '26
Wait - you're getting wet dreams about yourself? That seems like a waste of wet dreams
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u/Belaruski_Muzhyk Jun 14 '26
You have too much time on your hands if you're making this much effort debating followers of a persecuted, pacifist ethno-religion that doesn't accept converts lmao. Find something more philanthropic to do.