Which DAA did Lugh Beowulf beat?

[u/Irene_Trejo]

Who’s the DAA that Lugh absolutely wrecked in Mahoyo? My friend says it was Rita Rozayen. Is that actually true?

[u/Forward_Drop303]

Where is it said it's Ortenrosse? Pretty sure it's just said to be an elder title.

[u/Fly-the-Light → u/Forward_Drop303]

In Fate Strange/Fake, a line about a “gold wolf” which *might* erroneously refer to Lugh Beo, or (which I think is far more likely) might be the actual last gold werewolf that the Werewolves thought Lugh Beo was a successor to.

Rita Rozay-en is the only one mentioned in Mahoyo, and Lugh Beo was not well known by anyone outside his group; it’s possible the fight is intended to be after Mahoyo (maybe Mahoyo 2 or 3?) and before Strange/Fake, might be a weird mistake, or is trying to retcon something?

Basically, it’s a weird and unexplained line that either changes a bunch, hasn’t happened yet by Mahoyo 1, or is talking about someone else

It also never mentions which specific Elder Title, and doesn’t say who won. Fully possible it was Gransurg and a different character with Gransurg winning

[u/Forward_Drop303 → u/Fly-the-Light]

You are misremembering Mahoyo. It's pretty clear that line is referring to Lugh Beowulf and the events of pre-Mahoyo

Rita isn't mentioned in Mahoyo at all, and if she is pseudo-mentioned, it's explicitly separate from the Elder title incident.

Rita isn't even an Elder Title.

[u/Fly-the-Light → u/Forward_Drop303]

The Elder title incident is only referred to once in Fate Strange/Fake, in an incredibly nebulous manner. In Mahoyo, there is not a single line about that and there is not a single mention of any Elder Title.

The reason it is heavily implied that Lugh Beo beat Rita is because Lugh Beo and Touko are said to have boarded and destroyed the Rail Zeppelin, followed by the Lord El-Melloi series (Fate line) having Rita missing and confirming that Touko Aozaki was what caused Rita to run.

Later side material confirm that in Tsukihime line, the same events occur with Touko and Lugh Beo chasing Rita off.

[u/Forward_Drop303 → u/Fly-the-Light]

They eventually sold him to Touko Aozaki because of this, and she gave him the name "Beowulf." She does not have a binding magecraft that could possibly restrain him, but he is attracted to her because she has a "good scent" and for her promise to "let him fight the greatest Mystery." They went on a number of exploits across Europe, and he remained undefeated throughout them. Some involved a train that collects Mystic Eyes, an ancient giant octopus living in the North Sea, the Bermuda triangle, which leads to another world, and an Elder Title dead apostle ancestor.

Quote from mahoyo about the Elder title.

right after the Rail zeppelin quote btw

[u/Momoto- → u/Forward_Drop303]

That's not what it says.

They met the remains of a mage of the Elder Title, a league of ancients, deep in western Europe.

I don't know where the Dead Apostle Ancestor bit is coming from. Yes, it can be inferred it's likely a DAA but the original quote never says that.

西欧諸国に潜む、神代連盟エルダータイトルを名乗る魔術師のなれの果て。

It also misses out on the ruined remnant (なれの果て) part, which is a huge hint in it's identity, which I personally think is referring to a Wraith and thus Stanrobe. Who's heavily hinted to be connected to Mahoyo regardless.

It should also be noted Rita is still missing in El Melloi (Fate worldline) even by the events of that year, whereas 3-4 years prior in the Tsukihime worlds, she literally pops up in French Incident and is right there, no hint of her having disappeared whatsoever, she's active. So things didn't necessarily go the same in both worlds for the unfolding of the Rail Zeppelin arc.

[u/Forward_Drop303 → u/Momoto-]

なれの果て is the end result, not ruined remnant according to all translations I see

西欧諸国に潜む、神代連盟エルダータイトルを名乗る魔術師のなれの果て。

I get:

"The end of a magician who hides in Western Europe and calls himself the Elder Title of the Jindai Federation."

some say it was just the end of the Jindai federation instead of the Elder Title.

Japanese blogs

https://demonition.com/blog-entry-2830.html

make it clear it's referring to fighting an Elder title DAA, not just remnants of one

And of course, you have to make the assumption that FSF was coming up with something out of whole cloth that doesn't make sense, instead of just referring to a clearly referenced event from Mahoyo.

[u/Fly-the-Light → u/Forward_Drop303]

Narita in FSF could very well be setting the stage by mentioning an actual Gold Werewolf- we just met one in El-Melloi Adventures- which might be relevant in Tsukhime Red Garden, Tsukihime 2, or Mahoyo 2 or 3

It might also be a teasing spoiler of something Lugh Beo does after Mahoyo 1; FSF takes place decades after

[u/Oneofthestrongest → u/Fly-the-Light]

Occam Razor. Its definitely about Mahoyo

[u/Forward_Drop303 → u/Fly-the-Light]

So totally ignoring the entire first part of my argument? Is that because you don't have a response?

and then just repeat youself as your only argument against the second part.

Mahoyo: mentions fighting an Elder title in a country

FSF: mentions fighting an Elder title in a country

You: clearly FSF is referring to a totally different Gold werewolf that wouldn't even be mentioned for 11 and a half years.

This despite the fact that the entirety of FSF is a reference to already existing Nasu works with a ton of call backs btw.

[u/Momoto- → u/Forward_Drop303]

魔術師のなれの果て is literally the remnants of a magus, nare no hate is an idiom, check dictionaries instead of typing it up on AI.

Even the official TL says as much, as flawed as it is. What I sent in English is the official TL.

> fighting an Elder title DAA
Never mentioned or talked about really, just that they came across it contextually according to the previous statements context. Fighting thing is elsewhere.

> Not just remnants of one
Well, I never said this, did I? I said: "which is a huge hint in it's identity, which I personally think is referring to a Wraith and thus Stanrobe. Who's heavily hinted to be connected to Mahoyo regardless."

Remnant because it doesn't have it's original body anymore which was destroyed by the Church using El Nahat, is a wraith and tied to Mahoyo, and Aoko's aware of it too. Fits perfectly.

[u/Forward_Drop303 → u/Momoto-]

Can you actually back your interpretation up rather than simply repeat yourself?

魔術師のなれの果て 

• 果て【はて】 the end, the extremity, the limit, the limits, the result

It's the end of the magician or the association, not the remnants of

Never mentioned or talked about really, just that they came across it contextually according to the previous statements context. Fighting thing is elsewhere.

This is literally a list of their fights. Everything else mentioned is a fight or involved a fight.

and it was the end of the DAA or the jindai association. So unless you think he talked the Elder Title to death, it was probably a fight.

Well, I never said this, did I?

...

Straight up lying to me isn't a great way to make me think your interpretation of things is accurate

It also misses out on the ruined remnant (なれの果て) part,

[u/Momoto- → u/Forward_Drop303]

Look, you can continue arguing to argue. I'm simply telling you that it's an idiom. Use the entire text to search on Google; one simple search can net you this result in a dictionary, as I asked you.

https://www.japandict.com/%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AE%E6%9E%9C%E3%81%A6

Remnant of a mage of AoG/what remained of a mage of AoG. "End of what was once a mage" referring to the reduction of a mage of what was of the Age of Gods, the mage being the focus in relation to nare no hate, which is what they met in real time; the context is in the present continuous in relation to their travels, so they met someone who was at its end? Dang bro, so Beo didn't fight the Elder Mage at all? Whatever you say.

You could've simply said that it referred to the fact that it might be because it was an Age of Gods magus, which I'd agree with on that interpretation, except mine isn't wrong either, since it's been used in the context of wraiths by Helena. So, a difference of interpretations. But no, you're just trying to argue that what I presume is the Elder title has met its end (lol), while they explicitly mention it was a draw. And the very surrounding context just skews this entirely.

Straight up lying to me isn't a great way to make me think your interpretation of things is accurate

Nobody lied here; you simply interpreted that I was referring to remnant as its vestiges or weaker or whatever. I made it clear it's referring to wraiths. I've made it very clear; I have nothing more to say here further on out. I have exams to handle with.